As to whether you can do this on your own or do you have to hire a professional: It depends on whether you care to learn and putter at your garden. Plus how "perfect" you want it to look like right away. I learned a good attitude from an old neighbor when I lived in the city: if it looked bad, she moved it or got rid of it, and she just kept working at it. I started gardening with that in mind, and my garden looks better every year. (We bought the house 15 years ago.)

If the process interests you and you don't care if your garden looks "perfect" right away, do it yourself. If not, hiring someone to at least design your garden might save you a lot of time, trouble, and disappointment. Sometimes newbies who do want to learn still hire a professional to help them plan so they can feel more confident about placing things that are more difficult to move, like shrubs and understory trees. But you certainly don't have to. I haven't, because the planning is part of the fun for me.

My current project is a woodland garden that I've been thinking and dreaming about for years. A book that's really been helping me: The Living Landscape, by Rick Darke & Doug Tallamy. This book has gorgeous photos, and they are all well-labelled so you know which plant/shrub is which in the photos. I particularly like the ones where they show the same area in various seasons, since I wanted to have flowers, berries, and fall color if possible. The whole book helps with the layers - eg the canopy, understory, shrubs, herbaceous and ground layers so you can get the lush, full look I've been imagining for years. Even if you hire a professional, you'll get the best results if you can show them pictures of gardens you like, so they'll know what you have in mind.

Since I like natives and woodland plants, I'm a fan of leaving natural mulch in place. Compost is just more fully broken down plant material, and your leaves, etc will break down into the soil in time. As far as amendments, it depends on what you're planning on growing and what your soil is like currently. Others can probably help more there. But a first step is a soil test.

I notice that the shrubs you mentioned could be natives, depending on which species you are talking about. For groundcovers, are you talking about native pachysandra (pachysandra procumbens) or the Asian pachysandra? Personally, in a woodland area, I'd stay away from the Asian pachysandra, or any other non-native groundcover, like ajuga. Groundcovers (both native and non-native) can be so vigorous - I'd worry about the non-native groundcover escaping and taking over in the woods. (That's how Asian bittersweet got out there to drive us all crazy.)

I'm thinking about wild ginger (asarum canadense) if I need a groundcover - it has nice thick foliage. I have wild partridgeberry (mitchella repens) in lots of places already. It's not a thick cover, but it's lovely.There are lots of other native choices as well - wintergreen, barren strawberry, etc, etc. It depends on how much light you have.

Don't forget to ID things before you yank them out. You don't want to accidentally yank out something that might look nice if given room to flourish. I've lived here 15 years, and just a few weeks ago, I found a Jack in the Pulpit I didn't know was there.

Enjoy, and good luck!

Candogal,thank you for your input!

As of now i think i will try and do as much as i can myself.
I love your choices for ground cover,i wish i had some of the wintergreen or partridgeberry growing here as well.
I was thinking about the pachysandra procumbers. I amthing about using 3 or 4 different types of ground cover separated by small paths.
I have slight slope coming down from my house area where i might put some of creeping dwarf juniper to keep the traffic away, and dogs off that area.
I was also hoping to pplant some flowers like hellebores,anemones, hostas and astilbes, also some variegated liriope for intresting foliage.
I am hoping to research and find some varieties of evergreen azaleas or rhodies as well.
The hardest part for me now is preparing the ground though. the mulch cover (needles and leaves) is pretty thick and i am wondering if i should move it away and clean up the soil underneath or just leave it and dig the holes for the plants?
The area where the groundcover is going is clear from anything so its easier but where i am planning on setting shrubs and bigger plants is all covered and i am not sure if i should fork it at all?
Also the area is very uneven with many ups and downs which i am not sure i should grade?
I know its late in the season but i would like to put some plants in before winter comes and i know if i want to have it done this year i will have to work myself.
Its been already hard work weeding, i am all covered in poison ivy blisters but i am not loosing hope yet!! i might be able put some pictures of it tomorrow.

It all depends on how you'd like the area look like. Some like it more natural, and some like it more ornamental and more extreme.

The first step is to get rid of all the invasive stuff, from vines to shrubs and small trees. Move the seedlings you want to keep, but in the wrong spot. Keep as much as you can.

Second step is to make a path. The easy way is to mow the path. Mulching is really optional. You can keep mowing the path and this is easy.

The next step is to plant the plants you like. Personally I'd like to keep this step minimal. In my wooded areas, I keep multiple layers, large trees, small trees, shrubs and grasses. I do not plant any ornaments since I like to keep the original plants. But I spread some wild flower seeds near the edges of the woods, like blacked eyed susans, etc.

I like it natural, low cost, low maintenance, and still colorful.

Nightmart, where do you live? Your page is blank. I think my Mitchella repens still has berries, and I'd be happy to collect some to send to you. I just looked it up in Growing & Propagating Wildflowers from William Cullina. It sounds like the best way to grow it is what I think is the easiest way - sowing it in pots and leaving it outside all winter. It says some will germinate the first year & some the second year. It's still not considered "easy," but all you'd need is either pots or gallon milk jugs & some soil. Anyway, I'm lucky enough to have it all over the place - it's wild. Just check out my page & send me an email if you'd like some.

Leave the leaves & pine needles. Woodland, especially native, plants _want_ all that leaf & pine needle cover. The decomposition of leaves & pine needles helps grow fungi that are critical to the growth of woodland plants. You can't have truly healthy soil without rotting stuff, basically. (I've attached an article below.) For shrubs, I'd just push the leaf cover over, dig the hole, and plant the shrub. You can re-distribute the leaf cover around in the general area. In addition to not providing healthy mycorrhizae (fungi), bare soil can open you up to lots of stuff growing you might not want - like invasives. Though apparently some groundcovers like it better when the leaf cover isn't as thick. Mitchella repens is like this - it's a pretty small plant. This is why I have patchy colonies of it rather than thick mats - I don't clear my leaf & needle layer.

I agree with you on rhodies and azaleas - they're on my list to put in my garden. My other Cullina book tells me that R. catawbiense (Catawba Rhododendron), R. macrophyllum (Coast or Pacific Rhododendron), R. maximum (Rosebay, Great Laurel) and R. minus (Piedmont or Carolina Rhododendron) are all evergreen rhodies that are native to various parts of the US. I purchased a R. maximum a week ago that I need to find at least temporary quarters for over this winter.

Next time you're attacking the poison ivy, try to wear long pants & a long-sleeved shirt with your pants tucked into your socks & your shirt tucked into gardening gloves. Supposedly if you're careful, you can peel everything off while standing over the washer & toss it directly in without getting the oils on your skin. I keep trying, and the general idea does help a lot, but I still end up with some poison ivy blisters.

I'd love to see some pictures! It would help to see what you're talking about with the grading issues.

Here is a link that might be useful: An article about biodiversity in soil

Hello there,

i have no idea howto update my profile page, i live in Massachusetts,
west central area, it tells me its zone 5.
I did some more, work today, and placed the plants i have on the ground, i still have to transplant the pieris, maybe some help how to do it? My mother in law hes a colony of it growing in her back yard and i wanted to dig some up.
i did purchase hybrid azalea,because i wanted red blooming evergreen, also there were those dwarf little ones on sale which i could not pass on, so i have those to plant.
Iam also considering moving one of the winter berries growing in the back of the woods,but not sure how to approach that.
Still have to dig u hostas and divide those, i hope to do major work this Sat or Sunday.
As for ivy, i cant help but catch it on the skin, there is just so much of it, and i find myself pulling it with bare hands while walking the dogs..
i am trying to get the pics on the computer right now

Nightmart, I'm just north of you in southern New Hampshire. If you're interested in woodland gardening, you really should visit the Garden in the Woods in Framingham, MA. It's gorgeous and will give you lots of ideas. It's also a good place to buy plants - not cheap, but healthy. And you can generally pick the staff's brains about a problem or two - they're really nice and helpful if they have time. I was going to put the link, but GardenWeb just lets me put one link - just google it.

Don't be embarrassed about the non-native azaleas - goodness! I've got non-native azaleas and rhodies in front of my house. They were here when we bought the house 15 years ago, and I can't bear to rip out healthy, lovely shrubs. Invasives are the real issue, not every non-native plant.

Below is a link I think I got from someone over on the shrubs forum. It's a good tutorial on planting shrubs. Winterberries are gorgeous - lucky you! The link should give you some ideas on how to move one. Just want to make sure that you know that winterberries are dioecious - there are both male & female plants. I don't know how close a male has to be to pollinate a female. Somebody on the shrub forum might know.

As far as editing your member page, if you go to the Tools & Resources pull down at the top of the website, and click on "Member Pages" it'll take you to a list of choices. Personally, I don't find GardenWeb that intuitive, either.

Here is a link that might be useful: How to plant a shrub or a tree

PIctures of the area

Area

View from the inside if the woods

Thank you for the link! i am going to check it out now.
I went to dig the pieris last Thursday and got soaked with rain, we had crazy rain fall on Thursday, i ended up getting one scraggly branch thingy that started growing its own roots. It was much harder than i anticipated, most of the pieris there is big overgrown shrubs which are too large for me to move. Next day i ended up stopping at the local garden center and bought three small but full ones that were on sale for $5 each!
I know about Garden in the woods, i have not gone there yet but i am planning on taking some classes through them this spring and becoming the member.
As for winterberry, yes i know they loose leaves, i have big male growing in my front yard for which i bough young female month ago. The next day i went exploring my back woods with my dog and i discovered at least 20 winterberries(some huge) growing there already.....
Yesterday i went to other local woods with my dogs and i investigated. As i remembered there was very cute little groundcover growing all over there. Guess what it was!!!?!!MItchella Ripens!!!! I picked several vines and replanted them in few places in the back yard. I also collected some berries which i am not sure what to do now. Can i just plant them to the ground???

Thanks for the pictures. It looks like you have a lovely space! The dry stack stone wall is great. (I'm jealous, we don't have one. Just a short section in front where they must have stacked a few larger rocks found during construction.) Looks like you also have some light, so you're not dealing with deep shade everywhere. About how many hours of light do you get in the area closest to your house? I also have porch envy - it'll be a great place to still be able to enjoy your garden when it rains.

I see what you mean by the grade now. Depending on what you're imagining, you might use the grade to help you make different areas of your garden. If it were me, I might eventually try to make a larger area more flat near your house - the size of a small patio plus deep planting areas around that. That way you could establish a sitting area. Or you could just make a path to a sitting area farther away from your house.

The pieris sounds like it was naturally doing a common technique to propagate shrubs. It will grow into a full shrub eventually, even though it doesn't look good now.

Dioecious means male & females on separate plants. Deciduous means they lose their leaves. But looks like you've got both covered.

As far as the Mitchella, sounds exciting to find just what you were hoping for! Just know that most native plant folks frown on wild collecting, because it has decimated many plant species in the past. Wild collecting is prohibited in some natural areas open to the public. Some people are also cautious about collecting seeds, and feel you should only collect a small portion, say 10%, of seeds.

You'll have better results from your Mitchella if you do a little prep work first. The berries have chemical inhibitors in them, so cleaning the pulp away will help germination. I use plates & other kitchen things to handle seeds so they don't get lost. Just mash the berries carefully on a plate or another surface and gently remove the seeds. You might also rinse them. Many people like to grow native seeds up in flats first, but you could just plant them in the ground. Growing them out in more controlled conditions will help you get much higher germination. Wintersowing techniques are probably easiest for Mitchella. Some of the seeds will germinate next spring, but some will need another year. Mitchella are hydrophylic, which means they don't want to dry out. You'll need to sow the seeds right away no matter which technique you choose - you can't store them dry. If you're starting them in flats (or the gallon milk jugs or whatever more typical for wintersowing), you'll want to check them until things really freeze to make sure the soil is moist. If you don't know how to do wintersowing, just Google it. There's tons of information online, and it is quite easy.

Candogal, we are planning on creating a path towards area further away, which is flat ,where we are planning on creating primitive patio. At the moment there is a little construction area there, where previous owner kept ducks, my husband promised me to take it out and we will create something there.
I am not very sure how many hours of sun i have in the area near the house, i know i should have checked that throughout the year but i wasnt paying attention. At the moment during the fall, i believe there is at least 4 hrsof sun, but certain areas get covered by the shade from the house.
Oh i see i misunderstood what you meant about the hollies! Those two words are pretty similar! :)
I know that sometimes people do not like when you are disturbing the wild plants, i wont get anymore of it, but the area where i took it from was covered in it and i took single vines from different spots.
I started planting things yesterday and i am almost finished today, i still have some perennials to put in but bug shrubs are in.
i have one problem. We had first frost last night and i am worried my plants might get affected? Should i protect them somehow? I did not anticipated for the frost to come that early.
I have one picture from the area being cleared i did not take a picture of the plants yet.

This post was edited by nightmart on Mon, Oct 20, 14 at 13:47

I've been out finishing up my own prep for winter.

About your plants and protecting them - that's another thing leaf mulch is helpful for. Just spread some - like the natural leaf spread on the forest floor - around your shrubs and plants. Don't pile it up right next to the stems, though - leave a couple inches around a shrub. No mulch volcanoes!

There's a lot of debate about how late in the fall things can be planted. Some say a certain number of weeks before the first frost, some say a certain number of weeks before the ground freezes solid. Do know that sometimes plants don't make it when transplanted. It's up to us to make conditions as favorable as possible. Fall is a good time to plant, but this late might be too late. Lots of people get in situations where they plant this late, though. Just do your best.

You can find out when the first frost for your area generally is from the Cooperative Extension office. Just Google your state's Cooperative Extension. Most have help lines that you can call, too - great folks. There are different levels of frost, too. Perennial plants and shrubs that grow in your area shouldn't be harmed by a light frost.

I'm envious of all the rock you have to work with. Nice for walls, outcroppings, and shoring up the lower sides of paths. Rock placement is an art and worthy of study. Not many get it right.
I've been to Springfield. Nice area.
Mike...Geology major.

Here is a link that might be useful: My 'woodland' garden

Mike - Any suggestions of how to learn about getting rock placement right?

Around here (New Hampshire for me), people often have rocks sitting around in what look like old walls pretty much like NightMart's, or larger rocks/boulders just plopped where the construction equipment dumped them when building the house. When we recently had concrete hardscaping put in, they found an approximately 5 ft by 5 ft rock we hadn't even known was just under our soil. They didn't ask where to put it, and just shoved it off before they told us about it. It ended up decently placed near our seasonal stream. I routinely pull rocks I need both hands to lift out of my garden beds, even ones that I've been growing in for a while. Someone told me the winter pushes them up through the soil. You studied geology - is that true?

I'd love to hear some about the art of rock placement. I don't have a rock wall like NightMart's, but I do have quite a few rocks of varying sizes that were dug up during the hardscaping project. And lots here and there around my property, though I tend to want to just leave those where nature placed them.

love this discussion. I jus ordered the books mentioned, and am really jumping into the idea of a woodland garden completely fresh. Never even considered it until I started asking around on here. I have a pretty big hillside behind my house, and think I am going to have to get the bobcat from work home and level a semi-level spot out. looking forward to seeing progress! I will be "clearing" all the dead/dying and unwanted shrubs and stuff this week. Keep posting! I want to steal ideas!

So going back to my garden,

i didnt do much progress this year, weeds are abundant and i have to weed every day and still dont see much difference.

I have cleaned up area closer to the house and planted some small ground covers. I had a lot of damage from worms in spring, azaleas didnt even bloom, looks like sparea will bloom next week, i am considering bringing wood chips to just cover the weeds because i dont think i can keep up with weeding