However, if you want to really improve your hunting land...please pull up those Autumn and Russian Olives as they're non-native, very invasive and very aggressive, and plant instead a mix of native nut trees and native fruiting shrubs. If you want, google autumn and/or russian olives, and you will see what a problem these plants have become.

Here's a link to a company that sells native trees and shrubs that are hardy in our area. There are also many other companies out there that deal in native trees and shrubs.

www.greatlakesnursery.com

Just IMO. Best of luck!

200 Autumn Olives AND 100 Russian Olives will completely degrade your hunting land and will degrade the land of surrounding properties.

I have never heard of this.

Bobwhite needs grasses in the summer for nesting. Little bluestem, big bluestem, indiangrass, switchgrass, and sideoats are preffered for nesting. Cool season grasses and most introduced grasses are not utilized. It is important that the previous season's growth is available in the spring.

Bobwhite will eat insects and the seeds and fruit of native forbs, grasses, shrubs, trees. Wild plum, blackberry, and sumacs provide good cover. Osage orange is a good species for providing edge habitat and would have a lesser tendency to spread compared to black locust. Research has shown that forest species are unnecessary if shrubland species are present. American filbert would be useful for both food and cover.

The decline of bobwhite and cottontail rabbit in WI is partially attributal to habitat loss and degredation. A habitat restoration could prove benefitial to both target and non-target species. If cost is an issue, consider the existing vegetation. It is possible you could improve what is there with a controlled burn or collecting and planting seeds of desirable species.

The olives do produce fruit that is eaten by wildlife, but the distribution of these seeds makes them VERY invasive -- they will eventually colonize the rest of your land (and your neighbors') and aggressively compete with other more desirable species.

The locust is also very aggressive and I don't see it as a valuable species for wildlife, though some people plant it for erosion control and for the fragrant blooms.

There are more desirable native subsitutes for all these species. Consider dogwoods, viburnums, hollies, crabapples, serviceberries, and cherries for fruit production. If it is the seeds of the locust that you want, there are related native legumes such as leadplant, false indigo, and bristly locust (all in the same genus as black locust) that produce similar seeds and are not likely to be invasive.

He's got like i think 80 acres. Ok i am jealous of that much land i admit lol.

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/natives/msg0522142419895.html

Based on having located this thread, which I totally forgot even existed, I would be of the opinion joepyeweed's original post in this thread was accurate.

Furthermore, I have land considerably further north than Wisconsin and both the Russian Olive and the Autumn Olive seem to be capable of not only surviving but thriving. Sadly, it would appear that both species are hardy well north of zone 6.

Goodness gracious! The Russian Olive is even touted as being hardy to zone 2 while the Autumn Olive will only be hardy to zone 3. Wow, let's not all stampede and wipe out their inventory-
http://www.naturehills.com/new/product/productdetails.aspx?proname=Autumn+Olive
http://www.naturehills.com/new/product/productdetails.aspx?proname=Russian+Olive

Regarding Black Locusts, I transplanted a few black locusts here on to my property in Illinois and was so proud of myself for planting a native that I posted my accomplishment right here at GW. I was told by everyone that I'd be sorry. Evidently I had to get struck by the Mack truck to learn for myself that they were extremely invasive when 6 turned into 12 in one year. Those BLs had been my own personal brain child as I knew they were a native species and figured they couldn't possibly be trouble. They became a big problem and were hard to kill off as they kept resprouting here there and everywhere. The black locusts were all removed as well as several thousand buckthorns and an assortment of other exotic invasive species of trees, shrubs, and terrestrials in favor of planting species recommended here by members from the GW Tree Forum. Almost every plant recommended to me in the past by people such as Lucky, Guy, Kevin, John, Mike, Will, Scott, Ron, Elmer, and Joe (hope I didn't miss anyone) that I could get my hands on were purchased and planted here. Heck, I even used their sources and suppliers! I still can't get my hands on bare root Ilex or American Yellowwood though. I bombed out trying to germinate the American Yellowwood as well as Bald Cypress seed which was an incredible disappointment but I tried. Rats!

You know, some mistakes just aren't fun enough to want to make a second time. I ask and beg for help these days when I'm in over my head because I'm tired of losing time and money based on uneducated and uninformed decisions I have made. That's just me though.

Again, many thanks to Lucky, Guy, Kevin, John, Mike, Will, Scott, Ron, Elmer, and Joepyeweed as you people collectively saved me thousands and thousands of dollars. There is no way on God's green earth I would have gotten as far as I did without all of your help.

I was aware its only hardy to zone 5. But its his land and he may do as he wish with it.

You draw more flies with honey then vinegar.

Kidding aside, it kind of makes sense to use plants that would appeal to the animals you are trying to attract. I addressed bowhite since that is a relatively common game bird in Wisconsin and the original poster hasn't clarified what animals he/she hopes to attract. I wonder if 80 acres would be enough to support prairie chicken? Wouldn't be able to hunt them but imagine fostering something so beautiful and rare on your land...

B. i've conversed with him before via the seed exchange.

c. like i pointed out he may not have a clue this was only native only plants. you can get to the woodland area via types of gardening. woodland doesn't neccesarily sound only native plants in whatever ecosystem your in.

d. the nature hills place that sells not only native shrubs still recommends autumn olives for wildlife value. the only reason i'm throwing that in is he may have heard it from reliable sources.

and e. If you want people to listen(from a purely communication point of view) Being nice to them is likely to get them to listen to you via lecturing them.

all he wanted was info on other trees then the ones he has, so he can plant more. ANd if his trees end up on your land take them out of your land. One of the risks you encounter when your a homeowner. I'm sure those who like perfeckly manicured lawns that live next to someone like me who doesn't pull weeds until she knows what they are are fairly irritated too. oh well. Or even those that live next to dogs and hate dogs. ok enough of that.

but still me and madder being one and the same.............. yeah ok.......

Yet, 99 times out of 100, when I go back and review the posts that are supposedly offensive, I find lots of well-reasoned and well-intentioned advice. Like the advice given above. I have ventured into non-moderated discussion groups and, believe me, members these forums are very well-behaved (though enough trolling and provocation will eventually get a rise out of some of us.)

My point is, people almost always try to answer the question in a reasonable fashion. Sometimes offense is taken, but the intentions are almost always good.

Any nursery person that recommends AO or RO for food for wildlife, when there are so many, many, many, better choices, native or not...really needs to do some research. Cover is almost as important to wildlife as food, and the olive sisters don't even provide good cover. April

when attracting wildlife, you'll get the best results with plants that evolved along with the instincts of the animals. its not uncommon to recieve conflicting advice from people who own nurserys and landscape businesses than from people who work in natural resource management. as trends do change over time. what was reccomended in the past, through trial and error and more current information, would not be reccomended today. which is a common problem, as those old reccomendations will remain in place until a person is newly educated to the latest information.

but if you dont want to use chemicals - you can try girdling locust trees. we have had some success by girdling the largest/oldest tree while simultaneously and continuously cutting off the runner suckers produced by the girdling. its not always effective and labor intensive. offshoots and suckers from a girdled tree are fewer than if you stump it off. but generally the most effective control of these is using chemicals. i dont like to use chemicals either - so i understand your hesitation.

Do not compare growing conditions in Zone 6 to growing conditions in Zone 4. There is no comparison.

It is not easy to grow wildlife-friendly plants in Zone 4.

I believe Black Locust will in fact attract deer. Especially in Zone 4. Even if it is not a favorite food of white-tailed deer, they will visit a Locust grove just to add variety to their diet.

Let's be realistic. If you classify Black Locust as " alien " just because it does not already grow in Wisconsin, then how is it different from Siberian Elm ?

How do you know Black Locust Trees were not native to Wisconsin before the last Ice Age ? You do not know. You are merely assuming that this species evolved and has always existed in the Central Appalachian Region.

Is there an exact number of years that must pass before Black Locust is considered " Native " to a particular State ? The Indians planted Black Locust outside it's normal range hundreds of years ago. They used the wood to make bows. Let's suppose that all the Black Locust in Pennsylvania were introduced by Indians 650 years ago. Is that enough time for this species to be considered " Native " to Pennsylvania ?

Who decides how many centuries must pass before a tree becomes " Native " ? You ? Me ? The United Nations ?

????

its not easy to grow wildlife friendly plants in Zone 4
explain that to mother nature. zone 4 must have been a barren wasteland without plants or wildlife before man started introducing plants that did a better job than those that evolved to live there.

I didn't know zone 4 was a desert before the appearance of European settlers! In fact, using your argument...wouldn't the whole northern tier of North America have been a plant-less, tree-less, lifeless desert? What about that pesky fossil record showing ferns and trees and grasses? And those darn mastodons......What about the core samples of the earth that scientists take in prairie remnants...core samples go back many, many hundreds of years, and show what was growing here, say, in the 1200's or so.

According to all definitions I have read in the books I have read on the subject..

Native means plants that were here, in North America, pre-dating settlement by Europeans. And it's very easy to tell which plants those are. Siberian Elm isn't one of them. Black Hawk didn't get the Thompson & Morgan's catalogue. Native peoples who were migratory often brought seed from plants around them from one place to another, and planted it, yes. ..but they're still native to this continent. They weren't planting marigolds and cannas. Not that there is ANYTHING wrong with planting them.

"Is there an exact number of years that must pass before Black Locust is considered " Native " to a particular State ?"

No. If black locust is not native to a state, it's not native to that state. It may be naturalised, but it's not the same as native.

If it isn't native, it isn't native, no matter how many centuries pass.

If I am wrong, someone please correct me! April

When I was a kid, seeing a deer was a real rare and special treat, and I still feel that it's a special treat, definitely, only now it's not rare at all.

I drive 80 miles round trip to and from work. On at least 1 of those 5 days, I see a dead deer by the side of the road. sometimes a wrecked car, too. It doesn't even put a dent in deer numbers, but it sure does dent the car.

I personally think it would be cool to re-introduce some large predators. Allegedly, there are 1 or 2 mountain lions wandering around in Lake County, IL. Many people have seen them.

The deer breed like bunnies here. April