Mike, Hey sounds like you have a great handle on both the 5-1-1 and gritty mixes! It took me a long time to find all the ingredients and figure out the fertilizer side of things, but once you do some reading of this thread and the previous eight threads it does make sense. Al was most generous with his time, both on and off-list, and answered many of my "newbie" questions. I'm sure your plants should respond much better using these soil mixes next season. My trees are showing huge root growth this season in the gritty mix. Granted, hunting down the ingredients, sifting fines, and mixing the soil it is a bit more work than just buying a bag of MG potting soil, but I have no doubt that in general plants grow better in the 5-1-1 and grit mixes with proper fertilization, watering, drainage and air movemnet through the root zone. The peat in the MG soil acts like a sponge and retains far too much water for far too long, preventing air from getting to the roots and keeping the roots soggy. I agree that typically the big box stores are not very helpful when it comes to finding the right ingredients for the soil mixes. Granted, a few list members have found the right size of pine bark, turface or even silica sand at a HD or Wal-Mart but typically in my area you have to go to local hardware stores, feed stores, etc. to find the ingredients. In my experience, if you go to HD or Lowe's and ask for turface no one has any idea what you are talking about. Sounds like you've already found some great sources for your materials! Good luck next season and be sure to keep us posted on how your plants do in the new mixes. Thanks Dave

Hi, Just curious, I have a question about sphagnum peat vs sphagnum moss. By mistake, I purchased sphagnum moss at the onset of making the 511 mix. I mixed one batch and used it for one of my 3 plants. When I realized that I was using the moss instead of the sphagnum peat, I threw it out and purchased the correct one and used it to make the mix for the other 2 plants I have. My question is this, is it possible that the presence of the sphagnum moss in this one container could somehow attract any pests? The reason I ask is that I saw about a couple of black, winged, fast-moving pests (maybe thrips or gnats?) around this plant today. Upon further inspection, I shuffled some of the top mix and saw a single, tiny larva(e) crawling in the medium and suspected that I have pests breeding in my container. And afterwards, as I shook the container, a fast crawling, winged pest climbed out of the mix, and up the side of the container. I sprayed this plant with some insecticdal soap and plan on repotting it using the sphagnum peat moss instead. So could this (sphagnum moss) be the reason for pest-sightings? I want to solve a potential big problem now, before the real bug season begins. By the way, I haven't watered this plant for like a week and it still seems to be moist inside. I had watered every 3 days prior to the last time.

I didn't see your 10:21 post. Sand, silt and clay can be divided according to size from larger (sand) to smaller (clay) (albeit ignoring other important characteristics like element/chemical content and physical structure-clay being platelets) . It appears to me that your jars are showing a distinct horizon between particle sizes and the "2" mark. I may be wrong. The differences are important as to the different characteristics. For instance, among other traits, sand imparts no structure, has poor water retention, high leaching, low TEC (nutrient holding capacity); while clay has high (but slow to absorb) water retention ability, large capacity for holding nutrients, and its structure holds together so well that it is susceptable to compaction.. Your soils TEC is likely to fall in the 7-10 range. Guessing is fun, but not very useful. I hate to keep advising people to spend money, and I have no connection to any lab, but it is always advantageous to get a soil test (loganlabs.com) so you have as much reliable information about your soil as possible to help in making decissions rather than guesses. There is a guy who visits now and again who is very knowledgeable on all things soil. If you do get a report from logan and post it, he might give you some pointers--or not. Worth a try. This post was edited by grass1950 on Mon, Aug 12, 13 at 16:50

I've used these crystals in my dry soil (Dry for Georgia, that is. My sandy clay is more stable than your sandy soils, but still, it has never migrated to the surface. part of the reason is that I NEVER put it above the level of the root ball, always below. I dig the hole deeper than "necessary", and water rarely but deeply, with a slow trickle from a hose, once a week or oncc every two weeks, even when establishing a plant, and not at all after that. It is my belief that doing this creates a moist zone BELOW the roots of the plant, but not TOO FAR below. This encourages the plants to root more deeply than they would otherwise, and makes them more drought tolerant. This is all uneducated theory (speculation) on my part, I have no scientific evidence, but the plants I have done this well have prospered. Uf the crystals migrate upwards later, and there aren't too many of them, it won't be a problem. Their main purpose, in my mind, is to encourage the deep penetration of roots. Perhaps choosing an organic mulch to mix in BELOW the root ball might help do much the same thing. I generally make a 3 to 4 inch layer of "treated" soil below the root ball of a small plant, or as much as a foot below a small tree that I plant. This is partlally because there is rock below a very thin vineer of very poor soil in my front yard. I'm basicly building a container with a pickaxe. I've gotten around this problem, to a large extent, by building terraces on my steep hills, and filling in the level by adding organic rich garden soil trucked in a dump-truck load at a time. I've used 1 1/2 so far fir the largest terrace in my front yard, and am ready for one more load for a terrace in my back yard. I'll need 1 more, to finish my third terrace later this winter. Then my problem will become too much shade, instead of too much sun, and my new environment will render many of my plants inappropriate... Lots of my plants are relatively easy to move. Yucca, Iris, Carolina Jasmine. I actually like AZ plants, since they're drought tolerant, and many are freeze tolerant. I'm growing red yucca from seed, and hoping that they will prosper in my sunny dry areas. They did very well the first year. No flowers yet, but I can't wait to see how they do.