16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

>Of all the "how to prune a tomato" articles on the web, that is probably the worst one I've seen.

I agree! And the goofy cartoon pictures donâÂÂt help. They donâÂÂt even show what a real sucker looks like. The cartoonist obviously didn't know how to illustrate the text - which is unclear and confusing on it's own.

Is the utube video the same one with the guy with the sick, tomatoes ? The ones he cleaned up but forgot the ones in the background. Then says he did all this on purpose. I'm not going there.

This seems to be the tomato version of being Rick Rolled.
Too funny. :D

p.s. If you don't know what Rick Rolled means, just go Google.

As has been pointed out to you before, determinate tomato varieties are not perennials.
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No sir> All tomatoes belong to the same genus:

As It has been pointed out to you and do it again. (from wikipedia)

>>>The tomato is the edible, often red fruit/berry of the nightshade Solanum lycopersicum,[1][2] commonly known as a tomato plant >>>The tomato belongs to the nightshade family, Solanaceae.[1][3] The plants typically grow to 1�"3 meters (3�"10 ft) in height and have a weak stem that often sprawls over the ground and vines over other plants. It is a perennial in its native habitat NOTE: There is no distinction is made amongst the varieties.

It is true that in the non tropics tomatoes are grown as annual but fundamentally they are PERENNIAL. This is the same about all varieties. At any rate, either all tomatoes are annual or perennial. No exception in the fundamental genus.

The terms "determinant" and "indeterminant" come from statistical structure, loosely applied to tomatoes. The terms have much wider application in mathematics In tomato it just refers to the growth habit and FORM/STRUCTURE and its predictability.

FINALLY:

To claim that Determinant tomato plants just drop dead toward the end of season (supposedly implying that the indets live on) is just no accurate. And I am referring to the statement that I quoted. I do not know who wrote it. So this is not a personal issue with you or anybody else.

There are some dets that do produce all season, but not many of them do so.

From a biologic/botonic point of view the two, ind and det, are defined by the internode distances between branches that give rise to blossoms and fruits.

I'm always foregtting those internode distances, I'm not perfect yet, ahem,but I think it's something like 2-3 for dets and 3-4 for indet.

So yes, our garden tomatoes are all in the genus Solanum and species esculentum ( some use lycopersicum), the currant ones that many grow being S.Pimpinellifolium, But it was found very uselful to divide them into det and indet based on internode distances which does help gardners, whether commercial orhome gardeners, know how long the vines might be in terms of how they are going to grow their tomatoes.

And yes, sometimes when viewing many sites you'll see some varieties being referred to as semi-deteminates or even semi-ind, don't ask. LOL

Carolyn

Eventually the weight of the fruit will pull the stems down.

Yeah, eventually it should cascade down by its own weight. But you can provide some guidance.

Carolyn,

We are thinking of two different things : OP wrote:

>>>> the masses consist of thousands of tiny (what looks like insect eggs or mold colonies).Note the description : """ of thousands of tiny ... insect eggs"""slimy inside"""

So based on that description I was thinking of something like this :

As a follow up, yes Carolyn, it looks like you nailed it with the "dog barf" fungus. Thank you all very much for the info. In this case, I am glad to know it is nothing to worry about.

Happy growing all!

In a general way they are all symptomatic of catfacing and classed at that but with some fused fruit (fasciated blooms) and some zippering in this last pic. All are relatively common with early blooms and can affect most any variety. Some research indicates it is more common with potato leaf varieties but is far from exclusive to them.

It is usually a result of cool temps at the time of pollination In some cases the sepals of the bloom may adhere to the fruit and cause them to be deformed, in some cases a second fruit or a partially pollinated ovule (as in the tiny one near the stem in the next to last photo) are incorporated into the dominant fruit causing the deformity. and zippering can be caused by all sorts of damage or injury including all of the above.

But none of them preventable in the usual sense of the word as they are primarily weather related and none are indicative of pests or disease. They are simply classed as physiological damages. The fruits are still edible and later fruit seldom displays the same symptoms.

Your yellow leaves you asked about is another matter. That is mostly nutrient related (based on the photos) and while you will lose the leaves already damaged, since you are feeding them the new growth should be healthy.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Physiological, Nutritional, and Other Disorders of Tomato Fruit

Definitely your very first picture depict a defect due to some possible culprits damage. One can see the chewing marks.

In the above two picture also they are not typical catfacing either (IMO) catfacing is normally centered around the blossom point, not on the side or stem end.
This is my understanding of Catfacing. It starts at pollination and shortly after that can be visible. Any crack and/or defect developed later is not a catfacing.

Thanks all. I did some reading and I'm guessing the problem is that I've been overwatering the past few days. I wouldn't have guessed that just a few days would have such a big impact, but earlier fruits did not have this problem and the only change is that I've been watering more often.

I've been kind of winging it on watering up to now. That has worked OK for hot peppers in the past, but I gather maters are more sensitive about such things. I guess I'd better go get some dowels.

The good news is that you caught them quickly, and not when the tomatoes were almost full sized.

Over-watering or abnormally high amounts of rain - a common problem for much of the country this year - is one of the major contributing factors to lack of taste.

Dave

In the link below Tania explains some of the info about this variety that many of us have problems with.

Baker Creek is not the only source of seeds, see link below, but as I recall Solana in Canada does not ship to the US, Diane's Flowers is in the US.

Tania notes that SESE lists it as Black Brandywine, which is wrong, but two folks from SESE in VA will be visiting me on WED and I'll call that to their attention.

Carolyn, who has never eliminated a variety that comes well recommended, or even a new one, if it doesn't perform in one season. Just too many variables associated with weather especially, as Dave noted above.

Here is a link that might be useful: True ??? Black brandywine

(deleted duplicate sorry)

This post was edited by slowjane on Mon, Jun 30, 14 at 13:52

Yes, the infamous microclimates of the LA area....still getting my head around it. I moved a couple miles north a year ago, and I swear the weather is different, because we're over the hill on the valley side of LA now - from Sunset 23 to Sunset 20/21

Sunset Gardening description: "The combination of weather influences described for Zone 20 applies to Zone 21 as well. Your garden can be in ocean air or a high fog one day and in a mass of interior air (perhaps a drying Santa Ana wind from the desert) the next day."

Right now highs are mid 80's and lows are mid 60's, with a whopping 80% humidity that makes me feel like I'm in Massachusetts.

I'm thinking that since my garden is so small - I might pull the plants as they stop producing and put in a new plant. Or even a clone from one I've got now? And perhaps do a second tomato season like Dave suggested.....if I can bring myself to actually pull out one of these plants....

Do folks ever take a cutting and cultivate a clone for a second planting in the same year?

Sorry, I didn't realize that it wasn't clear both BX and HP were made by ProMix. HP has more perlite, no vermiliculite, less peat according to website. About 10% less peat than BX.

I may try to find a source for the mycorrizae and mix my own in the future, but I really don't like working with perlite (I've bought bags in the past and used it to lighten a mix). Creates a lot of dust. Have to wear a mask if mixing it in volume. Same with lime, unless you use pelletized lime.

Here is a link that might be useful: HP ingredients

HP has more perlite, no vermiliculite, less peat according to website. About 10% less peat than BX.
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Vermiculite is what makes soil mix more than wet, "Soggy". It absorbs many times its weight in moisture (water) and expands in volume. I think that is what make some commercial soils "Moisture Control". That on top of peat moss base make together a bad combination, IMO. Then they come and add perlite to it to nullify the effect. Just does not make sense to me.

Maybe leave 2 for a little while just to make sure at least 1 survives and no accidents happen. You can always cull the other one in a week or so.

Now that you have them, leave 2, (furthest apart in the clump). I am experimenting with double planting. I think 2 of them together may be able to produce as much as a single. But more than two will be crowd. Double planting is quite common in cucumbers, melons and tomatoes cousin potatoes. The difficulty here is managing the top. With good cage and staking that can be handled.

What zone are you? It maybe too hot and not getting enough water that is what it looks like, Beefsteak will burn and dry out faster then cherry varieties.

Zone 6 / 7 mid TN. Is beefsteak more water-sensitive than other non-cherry tomatoes?

Well it is your choice, but in my opinion planting tomatoes in stages in zone 7b, is not going to make a big difference. The reason being that once a tomato plant comes into production, it should last for months. In locations with long growing season like southern coastal Califirnia , with 8 to 10 months of tomato season some plants might get tired but I dont know when is your end of season (FFD ). In my 7B/8 zone we have 5.5 months of practical growing season length.

LKZZ said " I usually end my tomato growing by mid-July because of early blight".
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My tomatoes are also usually so heavily infected with disease, It is better to start new tomatoes rather than try to control the disease on the existing tomatoes. That is the reason LKZZ is staggering the plantings. That probably won't work very well because the diseases are easily spread from the old tomatoes to the new tomatoes. Next year I will try Daconil as a preventative.

So even though this yellowing happened in a matter of 5 hrs, your saying it is a nutrient deficiency?

No, I was saying it is a combination of issues but leaving it in the bucket filled with topsoil feeding was the only one you could fix.

By transplanting it into the ground, assuming it survives and bounce back will help. But you will still have to feed it.

I would like to stay organic with the plant, what would your recommendation be?

As I said above, one of the fish/kelp blend liquid supplements works well.

Dave

I have a theory :
I think you can even pot with/in garden soil provided:

-- It has adequate drainage and porosity.
Medium has a role, that is to store right amount of moisture and nutrient.

You can do this by adding perlite and pine bark fines, for example, to it.
As I have read, plants roots also need air (Oxygen). So the problem with garden soil in small containers is compaction and with that comes lack of air, unless it gets real dry.
Plants can take much water provided with that also comes oxygen.