16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

Lesson learned....I undershot my support system last year, as well. This year I had my T stakes and CRW system dialed in when my plants were 4" high. A better way to go...instead of playing catch-up.

Some indeterminate tomatoes can be unstopable! They ARE vines. I use 5' high remesh cages on mine and some years I've considered adding another on top and keeping a stepladder stationed nearby. LOL!

Ok thanks for the diagnosis.

It's hard to shade my plants. These are the only ones affected so I think I'll be ok for the others.

My sungold tomatoes get the same full sun and show no sign of any damage. Maybe some tomatoes are more susceptible??

Some shade cloth might help imitate the leaf-growth that your plants seem to lack. There IS such a thing as too much sunlight.

Not all defects are qualified to ba labeled "catfacing" .

No one said that all defects are labeled catfacing. But when it is catfacing it should be called catfacing and not confused by calling it something else.

In catfacing the main color is the same ( green, red) But defect would not change color:

Catfacing is often accompanied by discoloration of the surrounding tissue. It is still catfacing and is not BER.

Dave

Thank you everyone! The areas are hard not soft. If the end result of catfacing is still delicious tomatoes then I'm satisfied. It's all I really wanted to know. Great tasting tomatoes is and always will be my ultimate goal.

There are other contributing factors to Blossom Drop other than just air temps. Air temps in the mid-90s in day time and above 75 at night cause Blossom Drop. But so do inconsistent soil moisture levels, excess nitrogen fertilizers, high humidity, hot dry winds, etc. So if your temps have only been in the 80s you may have something else going on.

If you haven't read it there is a FAQ here that discusses all the factors you might want to review.

Dave

Posted by SteveO63 none (stvo1963@hotmail.com) on
Sat, Jun 28, 14 at 11:29

I live in Rhode Island, the temperature has been high 80s some days,
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That sounds like ideal temperature for growing tomatoes. Unless the temperatures get much higher on your balcony/deck. So I suspect your blossom drop might be due to some other causes. Also one should realize that not all blossoms should turn into fruit.

Since Tania is offering it for the first time for 2014 I doubt that anyone here can help you in that regard unless it's an SSE member and I already did that for you below..

From the link below you'll also see that has been previously SSE listed and I do happen to have my 2013 SSE annual at the top of a pile of yearbooks near me and can at least tell you what they said, I think I remember that it was first SSE listed in 2010,so nothing new.

NY, same info that Tania has and says 1# black beefsteaks, indet, PL, great flavor ,productive, seeds from Millard, the originator of the variety.

WI, 8-12 oz pink/black, other basic traits, excellent taste, seeds from someone in TX who got the seeds from Millard,

Because of the post above mine I'm just adding that Millard has introduced quite a few varieties, Captain Lucky and Captain Lucky White come to mind and those two and the one being asked about are all from accidental cross pollinations, selections made and named when genetic stability has been reached, which can take, usually,from 4 to maybe 7 years based on what the original parents were.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Blue Ridge Black

This post was edited by carolyn137 on Fri, Jan 10, 14 at 23:44

I'm curious about it, as my parents used to live two or three miles from East Flat Rock.
I had reckoned that Carolyn137 may have been instrumental in the development of this variety. Or at least well-conversed in its particulars via personal experience. Are strong pot-leaf contenders thus far in my humble, meager and pathetic patch. However, its taste is what I have a keen interest in. I shall find out lest disaster striketh me in some fashion.
Carolyn may notice some residue of 2,4,5,6-Tetrachlorophthalonitrile on some of the leaves of plant in image. Prepared my own "concentration" of it from powder... much, much cheaper than buying the liquid concentrate. For those who contemplate doing this, it is essential to avoid its (powder) physical contact with eyes.
Reggie

I can't tell from your picture, but this is what spider mite damage looks like.

Daren

Here is a link that might be useful:

Daren, thanks so much for your response.

I haven't seen any spider mites or pests on my plant, and since it has been raining so much, wouldn't they be knocked off? We're talking torrential rain.

The plot thickens!

I heard the blood aphid term from some of the ladies in my herb guild. They are quite red. Probably not a technical name.

I can take the ipad over tomorrow and find a better pic/light. So far, I think the color is fine, but this photo was taken ipad under an umbrella, and the table didn't help.

I did forget to mention in the OP that it is a variety of types, both hybrid and heirloom. There does not seem to be any difference in affected plants. The worst off are a Lemon Boy VFN and a Neves Azorean. I grew from seed. This is the third year for the plot, and we have been adding compost yearly. No issues with the toms in the past. I am using burlap for mulch, in a single layer, and base water by hand, so no soil splashing up. My pair of tomatillos and eggplant have not been affected, and there is also shallots, leeks, corn, beets, and parsnips in.

My two extra beds are a bit of a bonus. My starts did better than most years past. I'm content if they don't do well.
You do get the same storm patterns as we do...just a 1/2 day later or so. As you know, we get some very dry heat days and often a massive storm tossed in once a week. Seems perfect, but hard to deal with the splits.
If a storm pattern has a pause, without lightning, i'll go out and harvest check and pick....and always first thing in the morning after a storm...anything close to ripe gets pulled to avoid the splits asap....but i always miss a few....so i know what happens to good flavor overripe and split.

Nothing like a big bowl of blush toms on the counter, many varieties...near ready get lined up in a row not touching...i even built a raised tomato shelf to enjoy the process...
Tarts like thyme or tarragon with seafood, red sweets like being parred with basil or tarragon with steaks or grilled lamb, etc...endless cooking possibilities.
Oxhearts, all of them, and by far our favorites, make the best meaty BLT's....or just a veggie big slice with an avocado...over spicy baby greens, (yum).
Looking forward to the harvest...

I'm lazy. I set up a soaker hose system on a timer. I have it go for an hour four times a week, first thing in the morning so there isn't much evaporation. If late in the afternoon the plants look stressed, I give them another hour.

Dave brings up some good points, as usual. :-)

If you are in zone 5, I would not say that planting the end of May was too late. Especially this year, with the winter and early spring weâÂÂve had. Tomatoes and peppers, sweet potatoes, they all want heat and sun, right? We still have a lot of that ahead in July and August. If you can get your soil checked and stop adding anything more until you find out what the soil test says, you may still be able to get your garden growing.

I grow organically, so I donâÂÂt use synthetic fertilizers like 12-12-12 or Miracle Grow, so I donâÂÂt have experience with using those, but with synthetic fertilizers, thereâÂÂs always the possibility you are adding too much. The soil test will determine the level of nutrients in the soil as well as the PH.

I see you are adding grass clippings and I use those as well, but my own grass has not had anything applied to it and I do mix them with chopped brown leaves from the Fall. That is good organic matter, which your soil needs, if they have not been treated with any chemicals.

Not sure about using the leftover plant material. If it was healthy leftovers and they were broken up into smaller pieces that could be okay.

One thing that did catch my eye, is the crop growing next to your garden. Is that corn? Is it your own corn or a neighborâÂÂs? Do you know if it has had any pesticide sprayed on it or is a lot of synthetic fertilizer being used on that too?

Dave made a good point about soil temp...something i should consider, but i have had an unusual warm spring. Some tomatoes went in early and mulched. I doubt i should do that most years...
Looks like the whole shebang is maybe a un-composted pile. Too dense, too heavy, needs air. I would probably rake it all to one end and cover it for next year...the top 4 inches...make a good compost 'end row'. Then rake up some mound rows to plant in. Not a bust year at all.
Maybe just too much went in and is burning your roots. And soggy with such a dense mulch as grass tends to be. Un-composted kitchen scraps are wet and soggy for weeks....peppers may just got the lucky spot without much of that stuff?
Don't give up...got a good plot for upcoming seasons and even this year if problem gets solved...just let is rest and don't add anything for some time me thinks?

seysonn- Yeah... that's why I said it's a bother. :) I use it occasionally to insert links but prefer not to mess with it.

Daisyjoy5- Sorry for going off topic.

Rodney

This post was edited by theforgottenone1013 on Wed, Jun 25, 14 at 17:08

Thanks everyone! I think next year maybe I'll experiment with both and see what happens.

i should have mentioned the pots are about a foot or longer radius at top.

Radius or diameter? If you mean a foot in diameter then sorry but that is a too small pot for either of those plants. It might do ok with a patio or dwarf size plant, maybe even with a small determinate variety. But both of the varieties you named are huge indeterminate variety plants that normally reach 8'+ tall and over 4-5 feet wide. They would need a pot at least 2x bigger.

Most first time growers have no idea how big a tomato plant and its root ball gets and while the two you picked aren't the biggest plants by far, they are still huge plants if you want them to develop fruit.

Dave

doh. definitely about a foot in -diameter-. Was typing quick while at work and not really expecting more (generous) replies.

i'll consider your advice on transporting them to bigger pots. Was more concerned about lack of sunlight.

thanks again, you're all very helpful!
jo

Romcorn, I used Vigoro potting mix. I think it's basically a home depot store brand. I think it's got some fertilizer mixed in.

So far I haven't done too much feeding. I think I hit them once this season with Pennington all purpose fertilizer (hose end sprayer).

I started the plants myself and would feed them with a dilute 10-10-10 when they were seedlings.

What a great way of maximazing space for more veggies! Awesome ideas as well. Enjoy every moment and meal out of that lovely garden.

Let me ask this another way. Lets say relative humidity is normal and the wind is not blowing. The air temperature is 95 degrees and the sun is beating down on the tomato plant. There is adequate moisture in the soil. The soil temperature is say 75 degrees. Is transpiration cooling the plant or keeping the plant temperature down some? Will the transpiration stop due to an inability to keep up with water loss by evaporation versus an inability of the roots to take enough water up? What is the limiting factor here, water uptake? And does the shade cloth come into play by not allowing the sun to heat the plant up even more, ie raise the plant temperature above air temperature? I have read a lot about air temperature and soil temperature but not much about actual plant or tomato temperature and wonder what the role of these might be. How do all of these things interact, transpiration, water availability in soil, direct sunlight, air temperature, soil temperature and what role does shade cloth play? I get it with relative humidity and wind and so left these factors out.

Lets say relative humidity is normal and the wind is not blowing. The air temperature is 95 degrees and the sun is beating down on the tomato plant. There is adequate moisture in the soil. The soil temperature is say 75 degrees. Is transpiration cooling the plant or keeping the plant temperature down some?

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Plants can cope with that for a while fine. But may not set fruits. Then it would depend on how many hours that condition will continue. Normally 95F high lasts just for a few hours (that is the peak). But sun can shine on all day. supplying more heat beyond 95F of surrounding air. Plants have ability to cool off by transpiration as humans do. But we are looking for a favorable condition. Thus comes the shading, reducing hours of direct sun. Here is an argument "for" limited direct sun. Plants don't need all that ( like 10 ++ hours of direct sun) for photosynthesis. In cool climate it can be beneficial as a heat source but in hot climate it can be detrimental.