16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Hi PC
Thank you so much for your reply. I am so impressed with your expertise in this subject.
As you explained in your message the Sweet Rosso variety can be purchased from Marks and Spencer's and that is where I purchased them from as I live in the UK.
Would you know what name the Nebula variety of tomato would be known as over here?
Best regards
Georgina
Hi Georgina, Nebula is the correct variety name worldwide since Syngenta actually decided to name it for the benefit of their marketing department and growers worldwide.
Just to be clear, Sweet Rosso (TM) is only a trademark that Marks and Spencer is using at the moment to give the impression to consumers that they have an exclusive, in partnership with the UK grower who has the real exclusivity. In fact M & S doesn't have an exclusive and you can buy the same tomato at ASDA that is also selling it, where they are more transparent and usually list grower information on the package which should include the name Nebula on the informational label as the variety. Here is a picture of ASDA's Nebula from the same exclusive UK grower, and note the variety name is kindly in fine print on the label, being sold in ASDA under the brand name "Tomtastic Tomatoes"
The UK grower behind this is Melrow Salads' facility for Flavourfresh Salads brand in the Lancashire area where Andy Roe is the Manager that has the contract with Syngenta for the UK.
FF has a huge high tech specialty glasshouse hydroponically growing tomatoes year round, heavily using intense artificial LED light in winter. That vision is a lot different from the painting Flavourfresh gave M&S of the Nebula variety for marketing purposes, which suggest the traditional Italian Riviera LOL. Got to admit these guys are fantastic marketeers and quite innovative. Brings back memories when I was there doing this. Click on this link to see the Nebula variety of tomatoes growing in the Flavourfresh glasshouse in the background:
Flavourfresh gift to Marks & Spensers
Hope that helps a bit more. The closest you can get to a plant is by visiting Flavourfresh and asking Mr. Roe for a tour of the Lansdale nursery ;-) But like I mentioned earlier, you can grow more flavorful tomatoes in your home garden in the Summer since they go straight from your garden to the plate and will be at their very best. The best OP red cherry tomato that is tried and true might be Gardener's Delight, available here in seeds, but now is transplant time so you can pick up (and maybe Sungold too) transplants at a local Nursery catering to home tomato gardeners.
PC
I go around collecting straw bales after Halloween (people buy them for decoration then toss them; wasteful) and they sit outside all winter and spring until I'm ready to use them. At which point I break the bale open, spread out the straw to dry for a bit, then run over it with the lawnmower. Chopped/shredded straw stays in place better for me.
Rodney
Easy? By zip code?
I think not. I don't know what kind of area zip codes cover in your are but here in the NE and also with my own zip code they cover a very wide area. And within that area there's all kinds of terrain that can influence weather at any time. Freda is here right now watering stuff outside, major lack of water coming from the sky right now and we were both laughing at the time it was pouring rain in the backyard and the sun was shining in the front. LOL
But don't let me stop you from getting another app for your probably smart or dumb phone to do what you want to do.<G>
Freda just came in from watering outside and I told her what I was posting about and I won't use the exact words she used, I couldn't, but close enough is when she said....that person has too much time on her hands and yes, Freda has a so called smart phone. LOL
Carolyn
I do live in an urban area with fairly small zip codes. But you are absolutely right, if I really wanted to calculate acccurate info for MY garden, I would need a thermometer here measuring the highs and lows each day and do the calculations myself.
The app is very simple and just gives you cumulative GDDs by month, and compares them to last year. At the very least, it would give you an idea, with no work on the user's part. I mean, it's not like I need to know when my tomatoes will be ready for market, which was your original point :-)
Our neighbor says we can't grow tomatoes or pumpkins here. It's too hot in summer and the soil is too alkaline and too much drainage from decomposed granite. Would love to prove him wrong. Weather is pretty weird right now. It's rained for 2 days off and on.
We have one Big Boy tomato that we purchased at HD. It's in partial shade to protect it from the hot summer sun. Happy to see 2 little tomatoes on it. It's lower branches look pretty scragly and ugly. We may cut those off.
We've been relaxing in front of the fireplace so there is lots of ash to use. I see no reason not to try this!
Hi Barbara, I agree with Sey and Dave. Save the seeds for next year; they will still be good. For this year, go back to the garden market and try and find some small tomato plants.
Put them in the ground if you have an appropriate space. If not, use containers at least 40 liters. If you use containers, get some potting soil as well. I would also look for some fertilizer you can mix with water, and also some stakes or tomato cages for support when the plant gets big.
That's really all you need to start! Good luck and keep us updated.
On a side Note:
I am growing a tomato variety of Belgian origin. It is called Ananas Noire (French name = Black Pineapple). It is my favorite tomato. I have 3 plants growing.
On the plant size: get one that is about 15 to 20 cm tall. That is the optimum economical size for planting.Also make sure that the fertilizer you use has Calcium and Magnesium in it ( in addition to N,P,K ), IF you intend to plant/grow in container. In the garden, your native garden soil might be rich in Ca and Mg already.
Good luck !
Sey
Yeah, right wormgirl. There is a huge space of GREY between black and white.
But generally we have the perception of determinant as short compact plant. I have a Polish dwarf that is over 2ft already.
Talking about RG, I have already installed a 5ft cage around it just to tame it. It is surrounded with short dets.
I agree w/ PC. The description of Determinant is very shaky from the very root.
It is supposed the branches to end with flower cluster and say good bye ! But I have seen my Dets (siletz, Legend) keep fruiting till the end of seasonn just like indet sisters. , gradually, NOT ALL AT ONCE.
So it is funny, how WE, THE GARDENERS, try to DETERMINE how a tomato is supposed to grow and we make rues for them, haha & LOL
You could bring them in at the end of the season, but I do it to get a head start at the beginning of the season. These are started in mid-Feb and, last year, we were eating tomatoes in mid-June. By the end of the season they've got diseased leaves and are looking the worse for wear.....
I'm growing dwarfs this year too!
Linda
Last night I had to put straw over the plants and tarp them. Earlier in the week I had just put containers and I lost of few tomatoes and had some pepper damage. It's not uncommon for us to get frost in June, so I took a risk this year when it was so nice. Probably wasn't the smartest in retrospect.
My mislabelled plant's fruit is looking more like little plum tomatoes rather than pear-shaped tomatoes like earlier. It would be funny if I got a Black Plum. If it happens to be Juliet, I won't be too sad either. Some complain that Juliet has tough skin but I love to cut them in half and saute them in butter and add to green beans or asparagus with a little parmesan. It is all good! Oh, I can't wait to taste a good tomato again. The store and restaurant stuff is so bad right now.
I have liked Juliet. It was prolific and the taste was fine too.
Thick skin has advantages : It won't crack, won't spoil and can be kept for a long time. It is also a good canning tomato , whole similar to San Marzano. I am growing a similar one from store bough which I think it is either mini Roma or Juliet.
I am also growing Black Cherry from store bought tomato. So I shall find out how they compare in taste and productivity.
Sey
I can tell from the pictures that hoop, low /high tunnel make a big difference vs out in the open. The difference between low and high tunnel is not that much. All boils down to how early you start harvesting. For a market grower perhaps high tunnel is a winner in terms of getting the first ripe tomato to the farmers market. It mimic a greenhouse with steadier and warmer temperature.
JMO
Sey
I wish I could heat, but I am not prepared to deal with the added expense and the additional management. With my full time teaching job, I am just happy to get the buildings open and closed in a timely manner.
You ask for the temps, here you go.
My high tunnel plants were planted on March 18th, my biggest problem is the lack on sunshine so far this year. We have been getting 1-2 days of sunshine and 5 -6 days of rainy and gloomy weather.
I need my tomatoes to start in early June, any earlier the markets aren't as well attended. If I was able to take hundreds of pounds of tomatoes to these markets, I wonder how well they would sell.
The posts are 4 foot tall and they have overgrown them already. This pic was taken several weeks ago.
Sey: I agree the high tunnel and low tunnels are very similar. I guess another purpose is to show those backyard gardeners that low tunnels can help .
Jay
Very good conclusion.
On the cage height: If you want it 6ft tall, just put it in place (no horizontal cutting) and support it with some kind of stakes (wooden, rebar ..). I had one 4 ring that is what I did with. If I had to make it firm, I had to push the legs into the ground by more than a foort But I just pushed the legs few inches in. Then I drove few stakes real deep and tied the cage to it. Now I have 5 ft tall cage. Good enough for a 4- 5ft determinant.
Sey
This may shock sey, but I agree with what he said above.
There are two cycles in the life cycle of a tomato plant. The first is the vegetative one where there is growth of roots and stems and foliage. I think that most of you know that small transplants can and do form buds and blossoms, the sexual cycle, and that means that the energy compounds made from photsynthesis are diverted to the sexual cycle, albeit prematurely. And that's why many growers take the buds and blossoms off those young plants as I usually did when I was setting out transplants. Most tomato growers want to keep the plants in the vegetative cycle until the plants are much larger.
The blossom cycle itself is about 2-3 weeks so after removing any early buds and blossoms the plants will then form new buds and blossoms and at that point leave them on the plant.
From then on of course the plants continue to get larger and larger as well as more buds and blossoms and the then more buds and blossoms and fruit set and fruit maturation, but with more foliage there's more photosynthesis thus more ATP, GTP, etc. to do both at the same time as sey mentioned.
So yes, one can keep a plant in the initial vegetative cycle by over fertilizing it and/or growing plants in overly rich soil since that keeps plants in that initial vegetative cycle without going into the sexual cycle.
I once was living in a small apt in a house that was owned by two brothers. I wanted so much to grow some tomato plants but the only place available was a small strip behind the garage and they said that was OK. I had to buy some plants, not a problem, set them back there and waited. They sat there and sat there and didn't grow, actually hardly any sun and overhanging branches from the yard of the folks who lived in back.
Being now desperate, I fertilized them like no tomorrow and ended up with huge plants that were best used as shubbery, with never a bud or blossom to be seen.<G>
And I should have known better since I'm the one who grew up on what we call a truck farm here in the East where we grew many different kinds of crops, and many acres of tomatoes and by age 5 was sitting on the seat atop the water tank of the plant setter and not that soon after that was riding the plant setter with her Aunt Olive and not soon after that was picking tomatoes, and they were 3 peck heavy bushels, but dad would carry them out to the dirt roadway and then come along later with that two wheeled cart, take them back to the big shed where we would then sort and pack them and load the truck to take them to market the next morning, and the gates to that market opened at 5AM when there was a mad dash of all the trucks to get to coveted spots in the long covered stall where the commercial buyers would walk down the aisle making decisions on which farmers' produce the wanted to buy.
Darn good memories for me.
Carolyn
Wow, GREAT post, Carolyn. Both informative and filled with beautiful memories! I love hearing about your early experiences with growing tomatoes.
I will be watching for that 3-week flowering cycle. I have been looking more closely for where the energy is going in the plants, since an earlier conversation with Dave re: veg/flower in tomatoes. Dave, you were a lot more right than I thought, and I realize that now.
Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge here!
I had two volunteers, which surprised me because my growing area last season was all covered by a tunnel, weed barrier and bordered by plastic. One was in the way so it was pulled but the other is left on a skinny path to fend for itself in soils that are teeming with bad nematodes and nutrient poor mucky fine sand and silt. It is trying to thrive but is lacking nutrients. That hasn't stopped it from flowering. The diminutive flowers suggest it is an F2 of Super Sweet 100, but aren't convincing of the F1 because there are only three or four on the first inflorescence. Because SS100 (I think?) is nematode tolerant to some degree I'm careful not to step on this plant. Maybe it will resist nematodes too so the seeds could be useful, if it fruits. It lost an entire growing tip and leaves down to stem from a caterpillar. Maybe I need to start looking out for this underdog!
PC
Check the stem at the soil level. I've had some kind of rot which has caused exactly that problem of wilting during the day and reviving overnight.
You could salvage the top of the plant by rooting it in water or you could try mounding soil up around the base of the stem to encourage more roots to form.
Linda
I have heard this can be normal and have seen it in my own plants. In my case, it's only the top of the plant that wilts, but yours might be getting more sun. The fact that it's the whole plant and it's stunted compared to the other, well, that's concerning.