16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Very good conclusion.
On the cage height: If you want it 6ft tall, just put it in place (no horizontal cutting) and support it with some kind of stakes (wooden, rebar ..). I had one 4 ring that is what I did with. If I had to make it firm, I had to push the legs into the ground by more than a foort But I just pushed the legs few inches in. Then I drove few stakes real deep and tied the cage to it. Now I have 5 ft tall cage. Good enough for a 4- 5ft determinant.
Sey
This may shock sey, but I agree with what he said above.
There are two cycles in the life cycle of a tomato plant. The first is the vegetative one where there is growth of roots and stems and foliage. I think that most of you know that small transplants can and do form buds and blossoms, the sexual cycle, and that means that the energy compounds made from photsynthesis are diverted to the sexual cycle, albeit prematurely. And that's why many growers take the buds and blossoms off those young plants as I usually did when I was setting out transplants. Most tomato growers want to keep the plants in the vegetative cycle until the plants are much larger.
The blossom cycle itself is about 2-3 weeks so after removing any early buds and blossoms the plants will then form new buds and blossoms and at that point leave them on the plant.
From then on of course the plants continue to get larger and larger as well as more buds and blossoms and the then more buds and blossoms and fruit set and fruit maturation, but with more foliage there's more photosynthesis thus more ATP, GTP, etc. to do both at the same time as sey mentioned.
So yes, one can keep a plant in the initial vegetative cycle by over fertilizing it and/or growing plants in overly rich soil since that keeps plants in that initial vegetative cycle without going into the sexual cycle.
I once was living in a small apt in a house that was owned by two brothers. I wanted so much to grow some tomato plants but the only place available was a small strip behind the garage and they said that was OK. I had to buy some plants, not a problem, set them back there and waited. They sat there and sat there and didn't grow, actually hardly any sun and overhanging branches from the yard of the folks who lived in back.
Being now desperate, I fertilized them like no tomorrow and ended up with huge plants that were best used as shubbery, with never a bud or blossom to be seen.<G>
And I should have known better since I'm the one who grew up on what we call a truck farm here in the East where we grew many different kinds of crops, and many acres of tomatoes and by age 5 was sitting on the seat atop the water tank of the plant setter and not that soon after that was riding the plant setter with her Aunt Olive and not soon after that was picking tomatoes, and they were 3 peck heavy bushels, but dad would carry them out to the dirt roadway and then come along later with that two wheeled cart, take them back to the big shed where we would then sort and pack them and load the truck to take them to market the next morning, and the gates to that market opened at 5AM when there was a mad dash of all the trucks to get to coveted spots in the long covered stall where the commercial buyers would walk down the aisle making decisions on which farmers' produce the wanted to buy.
Darn good memories for me.
Carolyn
Wow, GREAT post, Carolyn. Both informative and filled with beautiful memories! I love hearing about your early experiences with growing tomatoes.
I will be watching for that 3-week flowering cycle. I have been looking more closely for where the energy is going in the plants, since an earlier conversation with Dave re: veg/flower in tomatoes. Dave, you were a lot more right than I thought, and I realize that now.
Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge here!
I had two volunteers, which surprised me because my growing area last season was all covered by a tunnel, weed barrier and bordered by plastic. One was in the way so it was pulled but the other is left on a skinny path to fend for itself in soils that are teeming with bad nematodes and nutrient poor mucky fine sand and silt. It is trying to thrive but is lacking nutrients. That hasn't stopped it from flowering. The diminutive flowers suggest it is an F2 of Super Sweet 100, but aren't convincing of the F1 because there are only three or four on the first inflorescence. Because SS100 (I think?) is nematode tolerant to some degree I'm careful not to step on this plant. Maybe it will resist nematodes too so the seeds could be useful, if it fruits. It lost an entire growing tip and leaves down to stem from a caterpillar. Maybe I need to start looking out for this underdog!
PC
I leave the leaves on the plant and allow them to see the sunshine above ground with everything else below soil level so that roots can grow and the leaf can still contribute to growth. there is no need to do anything. just bury the plant as deep as you want and walk away and forget about it.
In the past I have had bouts occasionally with "rolled" leaves. With research I determined that it was physical stress due to soggy soil. However, you really have major deformation. Not really sure....but herbicide damage might not be your answer. Get a cheap moisture meter (they work) and monitor your soil moisture. Keep us posted...
Thank you for your detailed response and encouragement. I was planning to use the CRF when potting up and then follow with a liquid schedule, however, given how late I am planting, I am a bit concerned about the CRF releasing too fast given the heat will come quickly. For that reason, I may just rely on the liquid fertilizer (maybe something like Foilage Pro that has the majors, minors, etc.) and be disciplined about fertilizing regularly.
At this point, I need to get everything potted up in the next day or 2, and then hoping to follow with the irrigation system ASAP after that. That does indeed sound a bit easier than I thought. I did see the micro sprinklers in the thread above but could not figure out which ones they were online. I assume they carry them at Lowes/HD? You mentioned that you liked those better than others- is it the 360 spray you liked? I assume they don't spray high enough to adversely effect the foliage? Thanks again! I hope to be able to post pictures of a successful container garden in the near future and look forward to sharing information on this forum. I have learned so much just by lurking these past couple of weeks! My head is spinning:)
Valerie
Agree with what Trudi said 7 years ago. Wait and see if the predators arrive. Since this thread was somehow turned into one about roses I guess I'll share. :) About two weeks ago the new growth on my roses were covered in aphids. Last week I noticed that a ladybug was eating an aphid. Today there are no aphids left that I can find. Same thing happened last year with my gooseberries. There were aphids, ladybugs found them, and the aphids were gone without my doing anything.
If you aren't willing to wait then just blast them off with a hose. Repeat as needed. If that doesn't work and you see no predators then use insecticidal soap.
Like seysonn and wormgirl, I haven't seen aphids on my tomatoes yet. But maybe they get taken care of naturally before the population becomes noticeable.
Rodney
BUMP and update;
Diary:
I started this thread on March 7, 2015.
Shortly after that Nate (Centexan) started planting out, sso did pedro, And Grubby -AZ had already fruits on his plant.
On April 8, after looking into 10 days forecast, I tested the waters and planted out a few. There after I continued planting out til late April. Before to end of April I was done.
Now, after nearly 40 days from my initial move, I have plants with tiny fruits and and a dozen or so with flower and the rest of them have buds.
Nate (centexan) is already harvesting some early ones and I am sure Grubby_AZ has been enjoying ripe tomatoes for a while now.
Here are couple of pictures of my to matoes;
This one is a dwarf cherry called Hahms Gelbe Topftomate
The next one is a picture of Big Beef (F1) with flowers, 2 weeks ago
And here is a shot showing some of my plants
The color of foliage appear yellow, it is because of bright sunshine. Otherwise they are pretty green and healthy.
Since then some more have started flowering : Cherokee Purple;; Siletz, Polish Dwarf ...
How is your plants are doing so far ?
Sey
So I am in the process of moving to FL -- and have decided it is ablessing that I will not arrive till Oct probably.
I hate humidity!!! LOL
Now I will be starting out in an Appt -- so I need to do containers -- please explain further the benefits of double potting. Also glad you said not to try to make the sand into Northern soil -- I most certainly would have I am afraid.
Where is the best place to find local veges in the Largo FL area??
Do I need to use extra large planters -- since appently plants grow much larger there!!
Thanks
Karen
The only way I grow tomatoes is in containers. I have been gardening in central Florida just north of tampa for many years and Nematodes are the biggest single problem with tomatoes. Container growing solves that if you don't put the pot directly on the ground. The best varieties for this area, spring and fall are any cherry type and best boy and better boy. There are other types like Homestead and mortgage saver but they don't get as large as the better line and the plants grow better in reduced light.
Also, the subject of EGGSHELL in its connection to Ca and BER has been debated more than anything else. So it is quite evident that adding it to soil in mid season is not going to result in Ca++, available to plants.Actually, most BER cases disappear by mid (harvest) season.
Sey
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What I have distilled from reading about eggshell is that if you actually grind it into a fine powder in the blender, it might be useful -- but probably not in the year you apply it. A real long term thing. Shells that are merely crushed would be nowhere near as effective. Some people do say you can use vinegar, make a tea, etc. but I think if I were facing BER I would use a fert with Calcium Nitrate instead. This year I'm using Texas Tomato Food, which includes that. And it's awesome :)
Epsom Salts supplies magnesium, which is helpful if your soil is deficient, but probably useless if it isn't. Soil test would tell this.
General fertilizing is great. My neighbors didn't fertilize their tomatoes last year and the difference was pretty astonishing. (One just isn't that sophisticated, the other told me "the soil is naturally fertile." She was using potting soil.) This year, they are thinking about fertilizing LOL. Since dry takes time to break down I might use more solubles at season's end. Using a high N fert is not conducive to bloom but it doesn't sound like you've had problems with that.
Patio is a variety that is midway between New Big Dwarf and Red Robin in height. I've been selling lots of potted dwarf plants over the last week as fruits begin to ripen on the plants. Patio plant sales lag a bit b/c these are a little slower to ripen even though fruit size is only about an ounce.
Plants cannot use any fertilize unless it is soluble.
Your mixture looks to me to have a lot of organic matter.
That is good, but the plants cannot benefit from it untill the microbes and fungus break it down, into a soluble form.
I would use a liquid such as mirical grow not just for the plants. But more so to help the organisms in the soil to their job. Go slow and let your plants tell you what they need and make sure your beds have good drainage.
you can also add some molasses with fish emulsion which also works to feed the microbes in the soil. when i spray with liquid kelp i also add molasses to the mixture. but i agree with dan go by how the plants look. miracle grow is always good to keep on hand.
Shaking , tapping the blossoms, that is what I do to. I know that it is not really necessary but that is part of my life after plant out. LOL
I see some bumble and honey bees. The bumbles don't care much to tomato flowers. Right now they dive into iris flowers. The like BIG flowers to relax on. I will need them later on for cucumbers. They love trumpet shaped flowers a lot.
Anyway, nice weather is with us till friday. Sa and Sunday will be rainy and highs in 60s. I sprayed my tomatoes 3 days ago (Fungicide) Good thing that it did not rain since then. I will repeat next Monday again.. I don't like mold.
Sey
Nate, you are a lucky person, picking ripe maters.
You don't fertilize because of rain ? How much rain are you expecting to get ? In rainy times maybe you can top dress granular ferts. My plant look mostly nice green But the new growth ( on some varieties) looks slightly pale. Should I fertilize ? I have not done a major fertilizing yet. But added some granula slow release in the planting holes.
Sey
I can tell from the pictures that hoop, low /high tunnel make a big difference vs out in the open. The difference between low and high tunnel is not that much. All boils down to how early you start harvesting. For a market grower perhaps high tunnel is a winner in terms of getting the first ripe tomato to the farmers market. It mimic a greenhouse with steadier and warmer temperature.
JMO
Sey
I wish I could heat, but I am not prepared to deal with the added expense and the additional management. With my full time teaching job, I am just happy to get the buildings open and closed in a timely manner.
You ask for the temps, here you go.
My high tunnel plants were planted on March 18th, my biggest problem is the lack on sunshine so far this year. We have been getting 1-2 days of sunshine and 5 -6 days of rainy and gloomy weather.
I need my tomatoes to start in early June, any earlier the markets aren't as well attended. If I was able to take hundreds of pounds of tomatoes to these markets, I wonder how well they would sell.
The posts are 4 foot tall and they have overgrown them already. This pic was taken several weeks ago.
Sey: I agree the high tunnel and low tunnels are very similar. I guess another purpose is to show those backyard gardeners that low tunnels can help .
Jay