16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
No there is no reason to remove the fruit from that plant at this point. Leave then to ripen as they may be the only fruit you get from that plant.
Either it was mis-labeled as a Big Beef (highly likely as it looks like a determinate and BB is not) or it had already stunted, multi-stemmed growth and had set fruit before it was planted. Either way it's too late to remove them now to get it back to a vegetative growth stage.
I know with peppers people recommend pinching blossoms or fruit to give the plant a chance to set roots.
Just for clarification, they are talking about doing this right at transplanting time not 6 weeks later, and with tiny little fruit not almost fully developed fruit.
Dave
I have started from seed and growing a variety this season called BUSH STEAK (hybrid by Burpee). It says on the package:
"Big 8 -12 oz meaty fruits matures early on
20 -24"dwarf plant . DETERMINANT"
Is it possible that what you've got is something like that ?
The name "STEAK" and BEEF are confusing. Definitely 8 to 12 oz tomato does not look like STEAK or BEEF STEAK to me. And it is possible that fruits might be smaller than advertized.
This post was edited by seysonn on Fri, May 23, 14 at 22:25
I think i'll be wrapping/ covering more this year. I've just always let thing be and happy with a harvest no mater what...enough for us and plenty for the birds and critters.
I have way more than i can handle with many fruit trees...
Buckets of asian pears last fall...gooseberries, blueberries, apples, grapes.
I have a bit more time this year than many in the past 10. Often out of town.
Should be a fine experiment seeing it through the season.
Glad I took mine into garage Wed night. Didn't get much rain yesterday (could have gone back out), but boy it poured when we were coming home from DD's science fair last night! I spent yesterday watering multiple trays of tomatoes and peppers (that are still in the house and getting rootbound b/c I have no more small pots until the tomatoes are in the ground!).
Still in garage today with the 2 western doors and 1 northfacing open (plus east window). Hope to move them back outside in the morning but not worth it today with scattered T-storms tonight.
I left a few soldiers, good and strong, not leggy, out in all this past weeks weather.
Tucked into some rocks to prevent tipping the cups. Happier than ever...
But if i had some leggy ones waiting to go in the ground, as one tray is, protecting is best.
I left the rest under the eaves.
Only flattened the tulips.
Just had call from Ag station (typo in my email address so I didn't get email 2 weeks ago). NOT powdery mildew, not virus or environmental disease. They potted some up to keep on windowsill and say they still look twisted, silvery/white stems but they're still alive - same as the 2 I kept. Physiological is all they can say at this point.
Does anybody have any other ideas what would have caused all (but maybe 1) of this cultivar to drop leaves, get twisted white stem, stunted growth? BTW, the Green Doctors that were started in the other 3 cells of the pack are growing like gangbusters now, no signs of any problems, hardening them off to plant out soon.
I'm wondering if linda was onto something...
Diagnostician mentioned "silvering" but that doesn't look like this....
Here is a link that might be useful: Silvering reference with photos
That happened to me with BullsHeart this year. I started two 50 cell trays early...then another 50 cell when i should, three weeks later. When i potted-up they did not look great but i was not too concerned.
Everything else is up, strong, and ready...but they are still 3inchers.
I use a grid paper method, not labels, so i know where they were in the tray...not an exterior spot...
Same soil, same attention...same everything.
Not the first time this has happened...i grow around 60-70 varieties. My error...processing error? (i usually blame myself)... loose starting mix in a few cells?...wet/dry, then very dry when germinating or got wet in the processing after dry?
I've just let mine sit there with everybody else...who knows. I've not looked at the seeds as i still have a few in the packet...
Thanks Cold Weather and Dave, I'm on the west coast (perth) but have pretty much the same weather as South Australia (hot temperate) and September is generally the month people plant their summer veges. I've done this in the past but the heat has has arrived just as they are starting to produce so I'm going to try to plant to them out earlier and then go for a fall crop later (as suggested). So my question was more geared to how early can you go, and I was curious as to what minimum environmental conditions must exist for a plant to grow (ie: soil temp, daily temperatures etc).....I'm not necessarily after a date. I do plan to put some black plastic down to warm the soil.
At least 13 degrees C (soil temperature) for tomatoes, but given that you have a long growing season, I'd question whether it's really worth planting early. And if you use black plastic, you'll have to take it off when it heats up which won't be easy when the plants are growing. Instead, I'd suggest planting in the spring and mulching well with organic materials to keep the soil cool. Tomatoes don't really like hot soil.
Michael 723
I never quoted you , neither was I responing to you.
Now ypu got nerves all of a sudden come out and call someone, ARROGANT and NAIVE, because of expressing his views on the subject. Dave is capable of defending his position. He is and experienced knowledgeable gardener and an eloquent writer and speaker. I have learned a lot from him over the years but then we disagree on occasions. I have never said anything personal about him.
Case closed.
Sandpapertongue (lol loving the name),
I too have learned a lot from "debates" on gardening forums in the past, and still do! Don't be ashamed of your plants, humble beginnings my friend - humble beginnings. Tomatoes are a very forgiving crop and an excellent way to get into the hobby. Enjoy!
Please keep us posted, I can't wait to see your results!
This post was edited by michael723 on Fri, May 23, 14 at 13:20
Abscission is defined as "the natural separation of flowers, fruit, or leaves from plants at a special separation layer."
In tomatoes this can be at the "joint" or "elbow" on the pedicel (fruit stem) or where the pedicel joins the fruit. The reason can be fruit ripening (some tomato fruit naturally drop from the vine as soon as they are ripe; IIRC this is more common in currant varieties) or blossoms dropping due to temperature (and resultant lack of pollination) or other reasons.
So what you have is a zone of dying cells which naturally separate the pedicel -- without action by earwigs or other wildlife.
Of the list given I am growing just 4 of them.
CHEROKEE PURPLE, MATINA, SUNGOLD and MORTGAGE LIFTER.
Then instead I am growing, additionally :
PINEAPPLE, LEGEND, SIBERIAN, SILETZ, KUMATO, JAPANESE TRIFEL BLACK, STUPICE, BLOODY BUTCHER, EARLY TRAET, BUSH BEEF STEAK, RED CHERRY (no name), GREEN ZEBRA, STRIPY(?), SILVERY FIR TREE.
Because we have relatively cool and short season, most of mine are EARLY and MID season.
Never liked tomato until a few years ago.Grow a variety of oranges, yellows, blacks, and bi-colors. A bunch of new ones this year.Grow in my dad's garden in central Alabama. Dig deep holes with post hole diggers, mix topsoil with compost, good dose of bone meal, coconut coir, epson salt, worm castings, and ground egg shells. Compost made from from leaves, grass clippings, lots of veggie scraps, home grown chicken manure, and lots of Starbucks coffee grounds.Collect an insane amount of coffee each week.Measured by volume, not in weight because you get it very wet, compost bin had around 230 gallons. Mixed well every Saturday after adding veggie scraps.Yielded around 46 cubic feet of very black rich compost, got very hot late last Fall.Plants growing well,some of my heirloom plants have very large blooms,Started spraying copper before planting, and immediately after planting. Most of this years planting is total experiment in seeing if those varieties will grow here.Traded some seeds, got some Black Sea Man, Paul Robeson, Gold Medal, Black from Tula, ones bought include Valencia, Woodle, Pineapple, Dad's Sunset, Dr.Wyches, Black Brandywine, and Japanese Black Trifele. On the paste tomato topic, my dad grows Rio Grande, producers very well here. Grow a variety of cherries, Black and Chocolate, SunGold, and 2 Gurney's heirloom, color unknown, ones a potato leaf.Will update periodically on growth ad production. Happy growing.
True, but you'll get a better balance of vegetation to root ratio and thereby more production per square foot of space if you plant a little closer and sucker plants. I wouldn't even think of growing over 500 plants in 2800 square ft. without suckering:
Thanks everyone!
Jean001a - Would wet feet/soil contribute to it?
Seysonn - Will do! I have 8 more cubic feet of the 'chunky' stuff, which is just marked as Local compost--its unfinished compost with a lot of wood pieces still. I've been mixing coffee grounds in with them. Would you suggest I actually put these bags into my compost pile? Which is about 10 cubic yards of fresh and dried grass clippings. I have about 2 more cubic yards of used Coffee grounds as well.
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Here are my thoughts and updates! GOOD NEWS!
**Here's what I've done since I first posted this.**
I turned off my drip-system. We had two days of rain just prior to me posting this. It was very wet.
I added a bag of soil to one of the beds--haven't all of them but will be doing today or tomorrow.
Fertilized twice with my 'starter' solution for seedlings/transplants. Its heavy on Nitrogen.
**What I plan to do**
Water less frequently and split my drip-system up. Currently it's all one set for my 8 beds and my patio with container plants that need watering more often. Watering every 5 days or so, 20 minutes with two emitters that do 20 gallons per hour, so with two, that's 40, only at 20 minutes so that's 15 gallons per bed over 20 minutes or so? Since it's not directly to the soil.
Find a way to increase drainage--I didn't use rocks or anything on the bottom of the beds, I only tilled them with a hand tiller. Could I aerate them to increase drainage--stab them a bunch of times 12-24'' down? Maybe install a few PVC pipes thru the lower portion with a screen on one side so run off can easily escape? The beds are at an angel/slope, 6'' one side, 10'' the other. My natural soil is very clayish, sticky when wet. The lower corner of the beds have either brick or hard lumps of soil filling them (I know, I'm so pro). Could I maybe use some kinda mesh instead to hold the soil in and thus allow air/water to flow out easier?
Filling the soil level up in all the tomato beds beyond the brim with a pre-veggie garden soil mix.
**Observations and Photo update**
I've observed all my plants are doing much better since I've stopped watering them. It appears to have been my #1 problem.
I still see mushrooms in most beds in the morning, leading me to believe the soil is still rather moist even now.
All the plants are doing -much better-. I had yellowing cucumbers that are vibrant and dark green now, growing quickly. My melon plants are growing similarly as well. I'm going to get the net trellis installed today.
My pepper plants appear to be turning a darker green adn getting more foliage---three of them have fist sized fruit on them. I've picked off flowers/fruit off all but the largest and I know they all are still pretty small.
Tomatoes Tomatoes Tomatoes -- They are ALL doing much better! Many of them are growing new leaves WITHOUT LEAF ROLL! Some have slight leaf roll, but not the deranged totally gnarled looking ones.
However, two of them are not AND have white spots/yellowing leaves/insanely twisted leaves still -- while a plant of the same species right next to it shows NONE of the same signs of sickness. SuperSweet100's
Thank everyone for all the help. I really do appreciate it. I've learned so much from all of you over the last year. :)
I'm just wanting to ensure I'm taking all the necessary steps to have a good yield this year and learn how to make next year way better! :)
Here is a link that might be useful: Syntria's Gardening Videos
Its a Yellow Mini. So far only that variety, Sweet Baby Girl and Black Cherry have started showing color. Last year the SunSugar plants started producing first, about 2 weeks before now. They are just taking their good old time this year and the more I watch them the slower they ripen.
If that's a Mini Russian Yellow, I'm jealous. I only waited until one had sprouted and tossed the rest (bad move apparently). It was doing well and I transplanted it, then it wilted and died on me for no apparent reason - sigh. Oh well, there's always next year!
Linda
The best/ideal way to prevent BER is to maintain evenly moist soil/media.
%%%%%%%%%%
Yes, it might be. But then it is easier to be said than done. Unless you have a sophisticated computerized moisture monitoring system to act automatically right on time.
BER is more involved than some think. and adding eggshell and antacid tablets is not going to cure it.
Genetics is the strongest factor. Say you plant San Marzano and Big Boy side by side. Bog boy does fine but SM get BER. Then that happens early in the season. So what is special about early season ? Maybe, cool soil temps, cool air temps. But still, Big boy does fine ? So it is the genetics of the variety that its root system is not capable of taking up calcium at that stage and growing conditions.
The original question was about wilted leaves, so that's what I'm waiting to hear about from the original poster,
Heaven knows there are several excellent recent threads here about BER , and I suppose I could link to what I thought was one of the best, but I'd rather try to help with the wilted leaf problem, if I could.
Carolyn
Good advice above.
And a lovely passionate garden. Mine are not even in the soil yet.
It all does grow so fast. I have to look at previous season pics to believe i might have some crops eventually. Just rhubarb and chives at this point. All on schedule.
Tomatoes are so tough, but if not supported and suddenly fall over, the main stem can split and crack open. Hard to recover from that. They do not like support stakes driven in close to the stem either. Stakes/supports around the outer rings are fine to add. Looks like you may need the extra help to support the obvious weight to come.
Thank you for the help with the trellis options. I have been adding twine and will add bamboo to the cages to add another 2-3 feet. Next year I will build the tomato skyscraper :) I will make another video soon just for you all so you can see how it has been growing. Thanks. I have fruit and like sleevendog has said I will need help with the extra weight. They are big varieties. Burpee's Steakhouse Hybrid and Mortgage Lifter (heirloom).
Here is a link that might be useful: Kovar Garden YouTube Channel
The variety Patio tends to have what are called Rugose type leaves. Regular shaped but more pleated/bumpy/twisted/wrinkled and a darker green. So while I would check carefully for aphids on the undersides of the leaves as they can cause that sort of twisting, I wouldn't worry about it otherwise. Just avoid over-fertilizing.
Dave
I've had a bout with aphids recently, they went for my peppers first so after that I made a Neem oil spray and they haven't come back :) thankfully the tomatoes all seem to be free of them.
thanks!!