16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

Thanks Cold Weather and Dave, I'm on the west coast (perth) but have pretty much the same weather as South Australia (hot temperate) and September is generally the month people plant their summer veges. I've done this in the past but the heat has has arrived just as they are starting to produce so I'm going to try to plant to them out earlier and then go for a fall crop later (as suggested). So my question was more geared to how early can you go, and I was curious as to what minimum environmental conditions must exist for a plant to grow (ie: soil temp, daily temperatures etc).....I'm not necessarily after a date. I do plan to put some black plastic down to warm the soil.

At least 13 degrees C (soil temperature) for tomatoes, but given that you have a long growing season, I'd question whether it's really worth planting early. And if you use black plastic, you'll have to take it off when it heats up which won't be easy when the plants are growing. Instead, I'd suggest planting in the spring and mulching well with organic materials to keep the soil cool. Tomatoes don't really like hot soil.

Michael 723

I never quoted you , neither was I responing to you.
Now ypu got nerves all of a sudden come out and call someone, ARROGANT and NAIVE, because of expressing his views on the subject. Dave is capable of defending his position. He is and experienced knowledgeable gardener and an eloquent writer and speaker. I have learned a lot from him over the years but then we disagree on occasions. I have never said anything personal about him.

Case closed.

Sandpapertongue (lol loving the name),

I too have learned a lot from "debates" on gardening forums in the past, and still do! Don't be ashamed of your plants, humble beginnings my friend - humble beginnings. Tomatoes are a very forgiving crop and an excellent way to get into the hobby. Enjoy!

Please keep us posted, I can't wait to see your results!

This post was edited by michael723 on Fri, May 23, 14 at 13:20

Do those look more like they were cut rather than dropped? When I've seen that, i've thought earwigs.

This post was edited by mbrowne on Thu, May 22, 14 at 11:30

Abscission is defined as "the natural separation of flowers, fruit, or leaves from plants at a special separation layer."

In tomatoes this can be at the "joint" or "elbow" on the pedicel (fruit stem) or where the pedicel joins the fruit. The reason can be fruit ripening (some tomato fruit naturally drop from the vine as soon as they are ripe; IIRC this is more common in currant varieties) or blossoms dropping due to temperature (and resultant lack of pollination) or other reasons.

So what you have is a zone of dying cells which naturally separate the pedicel -- without action by earwigs or other wildlife.

Of the list given I am growing just 4 of them.

CHEROKEE PURPLE, MATINA, SUNGOLD and MORTGAGE LIFTER.
Then instead I am growing, additionally :

PINEAPPLE, LEGEND, SIBERIAN, SILETZ, KUMATO, JAPANESE TRIFEL BLACK, STUPICE, BLOODY BUTCHER, EARLY TRAET, BUSH BEEF STEAK, RED CHERRY (no name), GREEN ZEBRA, STRIPY(?), SILVERY FIR TREE.

Because we have relatively cool and short season, most of mine are EARLY and MID season.

Never liked tomato until a few years ago.Grow a variety of oranges, yellows, blacks, and bi-colors. A bunch of new ones this year.Grow in my dad's garden in central Alabama. Dig deep holes with post hole diggers, mix topsoil with compost, good dose of bone meal, coconut coir, epson salt, worm castings, and ground egg shells. Compost made from from leaves, grass clippings, lots of veggie scraps, home grown chicken manure, and lots of Starbucks coffee grounds.Collect an insane amount of coffee each week.Measured by volume, not in weight because you get it very wet, compost bin had around 230 gallons. Mixed well every Saturday after adding veggie scraps.Yielded around 46 cubic feet of very black rich compost, got very hot late last Fall.Plants growing well,some of my heirloom plants have very large blooms,Started spraying copper before planting, and immediately after planting. Most of this years planting is total experiment in seeing if those varieties will grow here.Traded some seeds, got some Black Sea Man, Paul Robeson, Gold Medal, Black from Tula, ones bought include Valencia, Woodle, Pineapple, Dad's Sunset, Dr.Wyches, Black Brandywine, and Japanese Black Trifele. On the paste tomato topic, my dad grows Rio Grande, producers very well here. Grow a variety of cherries, Black and Chocolate, SunGold, and 2 Gurney's heirloom, color unknown, ones a potato leaf.Will update periodically on growth ad production. Happy growing.

Branches (with leaves) produce energy for the plant, they don't 'suck' it up.

True, but you'll get a better balance of vegetation to root ratio and thereby more production per square foot of space if you plant a little closer and sucker plants. I wouldn't even think of growing over 500 plants in 2800 square ft. without suckering:

The tomatoes do not have a virus.

They have been damaged by herbicide.

They may or may not grow out of it-- that depends on the dose the plant got.

If the plant does grow out of it, that would prove it's herbicide damage

Thanks everyone!

Jean001a - Would wet feet/soil contribute to it?

Seysonn - Will do! I have 8 more cubic feet of the 'chunky' stuff, which is just marked as Local compost--its unfinished compost with a lot of wood pieces still. I've been mixing coffee grounds in with them. Would you suggest I actually put these bags into my compost pile? Which is about 10 cubic yards of fresh and dried grass clippings. I have about 2 more cubic yards of used Coffee grounds as well.

--

Here are my thoughts and updates! GOOD NEWS!

**Here's what I've done since I first posted this.**

I turned off my drip-system. We had two days of rain just prior to me posting this. It was very wet.

I added a bag of soil to one of the beds--haven't all of them but will be doing today or tomorrow.

Fertilized twice with my 'starter' solution for seedlings/transplants. Its heavy on Nitrogen.

**What I plan to do**

Water less frequently and split my drip-system up. Currently it's all one set for my 8 beds and my patio with container plants that need watering more often. Watering every 5 days or so, 20 minutes with two emitters that do 20 gallons per hour, so with two, that's 40, only at 20 minutes so that's 15 gallons per bed over 20 minutes or so? Since it's not directly to the soil.

Find a way to increase drainage--I didn't use rocks or anything on the bottom of the beds, I only tilled them with a hand tiller. Could I aerate them to increase drainage--stab them a bunch of times 12-24'' down? Maybe install a few PVC pipes thru the lower portion with a screen on one side so run off can easily escape? The beds are at an angel/slope, 6'' one side, 10'' the other. My natural soil is very clayish, sticky when wet. The lower corner of the beds have either brick or hard lumps of soil filling them (I know, I'm so pro). Could I maybe use some kinda mesh instead to hold the soil in and thus allow air/water to flow out easier?

Filling the soil level up in all the tomato beds beyond the brim with a pre-veggie garden soil mix.

**Observations and Photo update**

I've observed all my plants are doing much better since I've stopped watering them. It appears to have been my #1 problem.

I still see mushrooms in most beds in the morning, leading me to believe the soil is still rather moist even now.

All the plants are doing -much better-. I had yellowing cucumbers that are vibrant and dark green now, growing quickly. My melon plants are growing similarly as well. I'm going to get the net trellis installed today.

My pepper plants appear to be turning a darker green adn getting more foliage---three of them have fist sized fruit on them. I've picked off flowers/fruit off all but the largest and I know they all are still pretty small.

Tomatoes Tomatoes Tomatoes -- They are ALL doing much better! Many of them are growing new leaves WITHOUT LEAF ROLL! Some have slight leaf roll, but not the deranged totally gnarled looking ones.

However, two of them are not AND have white spots/yellowing leaves/insanely twisted leaves still -- while a plant of the same species right next to it shows NONE of the same signs of sickness. SuperSweet100's

Thank everyone for all the help. I really do appreciate it. I've learned so much from all of you over the last year. :)

I'm just wanting to ensure I'm taking all the necessary steps to have a good yield this year and learn how to make next year way better! :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Syntria's Gardening Videos

Its a Yellow Mini. So far only that variety, Sweet Baby Girl and Black Cherry have started showing color. Last year the SunSugar plants started producing first, about 2 weeks before now. They are just taking their good old time this year and the more I watch them the slower they ripen.

If that's a Mini Russian Yellow, I'm jealous. I only waited until one had sprouted and tossed the rest (bad move apparently). It was doing well and I transplanted it, then it wilted and died on me for no apparent reason - sigh. Oh well, there's always next year!

Linda

The best/ideal way to prevent BER is to maintain evenly moist soil/media.
%%%%%%%%%%
Yes, it might be. But then it is easier to be said than done. Unless you have a sophisticated computerized moisture monitoring system to act automatically right on time.
BER is more involved than some think. and adding eggshell and antacid tablets is not going to cure it.
Genetics is the strongest factor. Say you plant San Marzano and Big Boy side by side. Bog boy does fine but SM get BER. Then that happens early in the season. So what is special about early season ? Maybe, cool soil temps, cool air temps. But still, Big boy does fine ? So it is the genetics of the variety that its root system is not capable of taking up calcium at that stage and growing conditions.

The original question was about wilted leaves, so that's what I'm waiting to hear about from the original poster,

Heaven knows there are several excellent recent threads here about BER , and I suppose I could link to what I thought was one of the best, but I'd rather try to help with the wilted leaf problem, if I could.

Carolyn

Good advice above.
And a lovely passionate garden. Mine are not even in the soil yet.
It all does grow so fast. I have to look at previous season pics to believe i might have some crops eventually. Just rhubarb and chives at this point. All on schedule.

Tomatoes are so tough, but if not supported and suddenly fall over, the main stem can split and crack open. Hard to recover from that. They do not like support stakes driven in close to the stem either. Stakes/supports around the outer rings are fine to add. Looks like you may need the extra help to support the obvious weight to come.

Thank you for the help with the trellis options. I have been adding twine and will add bamboo to the cages to add another 2-3 feet. Next year I will build the tomato skyscraper :) I will make another video soon just for you all so you can see how it has been growing. Thanks. I have fruit and like sleevendog has said I will need help with the extra weight. They are big varieties. Burpee's Steakhouse Hybrid and Mortgage Lifter (heirloom).

Here is a link that might be useful: Kovar Garden YouTube Channel

We are trying the FLA weave this year in our garden. We are using BALING twine. its a huge spool (about 20,000 ft) for less than 20 bucks. it is working out great. . its strong and doesnt stretch.

I do a sort of combination of staking and weaving (not FW).
True FLORIDA weave is not practical with, say, 3 by 6 ft raised bed, with different varieties. FW is good when you grow rows and rows of tomatoes. JMO

It is forcasted to be in the 80's here for the next 10 days, we had a little cool weather this past weekend in the 60's. Im thinking about putting the pine straw in my garden area this weekend. Would that be enough time to warm the ground? It was 70-80s last week as well until the cool weekend.

Update: I checked soil temp and it was 78-80 at 2-3 inches

This post was edited by rbreedi1 on Wed, May 21, 14 at 19:32

@ rbreedi1,.. Yet another benefit of GOOD mulch, to keep the soil cooler in hot climates.

That's good. Glad you didn't have the luck I did yesterday. White out conditions and quarter sized hail stones it was nuts down here.

They don't seem to have minded the rrrrip.
Very healthy.
I like to give mine a re-potting rest for a week or so. But that is just being motherly, like sending a kid out on a rainy chilly morn without a coat. "tough it up kid, it will be warm and sunny in a few hours".
Seeing a pic of healthy fellas, i would not hesitate to plant.
Without a pic i would have visualized some sad lost forgotten starving seedlings that might have needed some adjustment time...
(pics are so important)

Thanks. I know you are right - it is just hard to fight the urge to *help* them along.

You may be able to fight the urge by looking at the plants. If they are doing OK, looking great, green, etc, then you are having some of the good conditions for them to be just fine.

Even with watering schedule, you find different ideas and plans because people have different experiences and details about their tomato growth.

Read all about it, take what is good and useful to you, and adjust as needed to make your plants thrive. Even next month or next season, you may have to adjust your thinking to overcome a new problem that wasn't there earlier.