16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

Hail? I'm in Phoenix AZ - in May. A falling stick from a tree? Not that symmetrical repeatedly. Jeez, you think I'm stupid or what?

This problem presented in the last two weeks. If I had the time to take away from my business to go get a soil sample tested, I would not need to ask for advice from a gardening forum.

Gee whiz, now I remember why I stopped coming over to this forum. It's that sanctimonious attitude. Excuuuuuse me Dave. and good bye.

Whoa! Sanctimonious? Was merely talking in generalities of what can cause such injuries and conditions such as in your pics and why people always assume it is a terrible disease rather than something that can be fixed.

All I knew was you are in zone 9, not specific location, and yes there are hail storms and falling sticks all over zone 9. Likely some even in Phoenix AZ.

But then that wasn't even the point.

You asked, I answered with what I hoped were some helpful suggestions to consider. But if you'd rather assume the worst about both me and your plants that's your choice.

Dave

Timber rot will commonly infect stems of older plants and the symptoms may be mistaken for Damping off.

I had newspaper collars wrapped close around the stem to prevent cutworms, and the lack of air circulation and constant damp is a perfect breeding ground for fungus spores. Be sure you keep any mulch away from actually touching the plants stem.

Dee, what you posted ab0ve is what I was going on.

rather than saying adult damping off, which I like, How about post emergent damping off. ( smile)l

Yes, some of those damping off fungi could be in the soil, aka real dirt,,but the most common occurence of damping off,as you know is either preemergent when the darn seeds dont even germinate or if the germinate they go down quickly;

Summary?

you are convinced that what you show is "adult damping off and that's all that reallymatters. Most of the same pictures in my tomato pathology manual are also shown at TAMU, last I knew and maybe they might even show the 6 pak in my book showing post emergent damping off of those 5- 6 inch seedlings.I didn[t check that 0ut at TAMU.

Carolyn

The last average, I say average, frost date in my zone 5 is about May 15th, and from years of experience, ahem, I would never plant them out until the first week in June when hopefully any late frosts, yea snowstorms, both of which have occured after that May 15th date are hopefully no shows

John, I don't know how many plants you are putting out and I don't know how big they are now, but when my plants got too big I stripped off all the foliage except for a tuft at the top, watered them sparingly when needed, kept them in the shade, all to slow down growth, and then planted them horizontally, leaving just that tuft of foliage exposed. Which would straighten up and make a nice plant

Carolyn

Not at all cold or extreme in our zone 5-6 NY CT right now. Tonight just tuck under a deck or garage, shed. I missed a tray of younger starts last night that i meant to slide into the garage...they got hit with this mornings hard storm and are probably much happier than those i gave cover. (they seem happier, : )
-i have deer, turkeys, bears, and all state forest creatures. I like to bring mine onto a table in the garage to avoid a meal for critters.

I'm getting flood advisories right now for tonights storm on my radar alert.
I've only personally witnessed very high winds and very hard rain/hail destroying toms.
Pid-ly storms without 'seek cover' warnings are smooth sailing for tomatoes.

Probably that tool is for cutting copper tubing. Can cut PVC too, but EMT (steel) ? I am not sure. You can use a hacksaw instead.

But aside from HOW TO CUT, EMT is a good choice as steak. You will need to develop an especial process to make cage out of it.

Could be that it is too small, or soft.

I am space constrained, and plan on doing kind of a greenhouse technique in future, with grow bags and plants trained to a stem or two. This year it is just for the part over the ~40" cages.

Amazing that [oops 10'] of steel tube costs the same as 8' of 2x2!

This post was edited by johns.coastal.patio on Thu, May 15, 14 at 13:37

Looks like what is called "fused stems" in the pic. Usually from multiple seeds that are planted close together. The string in the pic really should be cut.

Whether you remove 1 or 2 of the stems by cutting above the fused point is up to you but as long as you can support the plant well as it grows I'd just leave it as is.

Dave

Thanks.

Otherwise either the flowers start to bloom and die/fall off, or die just as they are starting to bloom turning dry and brown,

That is called Blossom Drop and can happen with all tomato plants. It is primarily related to air temps and humidity but any problems with the growing conditions contributes to it and your plants has had plenty of problems. Plus it sounds as if you are still over-watering the plant. I linked the FAQ about it below.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Blossom drop FAQ

since you have multiple trunks, i would cut a piece just below the soil level (maybe 1 inch) to try and get some roots, then chop the top and new growth off, leaving just a couple of leaves in the middle.
then, plant it deep. a few inches above where the soil level was before.
it will grow new roots in that section, just below soil level, and act as a new plant. (new roots = new plant)
i would keep it in the shade a t first, until it gets more leaves, then slowly acclimate it to full sun.

Below I've linked to Carol Deppe's excellent book , the link from the 2nd edition published in 2000, the first edition somewhat before that, I have both editions, and she was the first to raise the issue of some varieties being sold as F1's that were really OP.

So it was maybe 20 years ago with the first edition that she raised that issue. And also referrred to Alan Kapuler at the then Peace Seeds who had experienced some of the same.

But that was then,this is now. And the situation has changed IMO.

Dave referred to those who dehybridize F1's to stable OP's , or at least try to, and I know only one person who has a seed site who actually sells some of those OP versions, that she did herself, and yes, some from others. Without checking I'm pretty sure it's said they are OP's and from feedback I also know that not all are fully stable as sold as OP's.

Regulations in the seed industry have become more strict and I don't know of one major seed company that sells F1's as Op's. Yes, it used to happen, no doubt about it.

Reimer's Seeds was selling Big Zac F1 as an OP, that I remember very well.

I dehybridized Ramapo F1 when it was thought to be no longer available and distributed seeds for my OP version, as OP's.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Ramapo#tab=General_Info

It was pretty darn stable at the F3, and as this history above says, I sent F3 seeds to Ed Ryan and I did so b'c he was originally a Market Gardener in NJ and had grown the original F1. Actually I was sent seeds for the F1 from Rutgers to use as a comparison when making my selections. And Ed said he could find no difference at all between my Op version and the F1. Ramapo F1, now available again from Rutgers, has just two parents so was not that difficult to dehybridize.

Then there's Santa Sweets, the original grape tomato first offered by Andrew Chu in FL, his seeds from the Known-You seed company in Taiwan, and sold as an F1, which it really was.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Santa_Sweets

But as you read the link above, you'll see the history of the OP version and it was Andrew himself who told me that 99% of saved seeds come true, as Tania has also noted, and so I spread that information around. Andrew told me that the offtype is round, not grape shaped, and has a BriX content ( soluble sugars) lower that the grape shape.

There are folks who are now at the F9 and it's been very stable.

All to say that I do not think that any reputable seed companies, I said reputable, arenow selling OP's instead of the original F1's. for a particular variety.

Carolyn, who notes that her attempts to dehybridize Big Boy F1 to try and get out the one parent, Teddy Jones, an heirloom variety from the midwest, didn't get very far very fast, despite the advice of Dr. Oved Shifriss, who bred Big Boy F1. ( smile)

Here is a link that might be useful: F1's as OP's

We've let the volunteers grow in the past but often ended up with more problems with blight. Not saying that was the whole problem but rotation may have also been our problem.

It is flea beetle damage - small black hopping beetles that make small holes in leaves in a "shotgun pattern". It is appearance damage only and poses no threat to the plants. Most of us just ignore it and them.

Dave

Thank you! I actually just noticed one on the leaf in the picture. Glad to know its nothing serious!

if someone who doesn't know the subtleties of tomato coloring, which I still struggle with sometimes, would consider these two "normal" or "odd" colored tomatoes.

Yes they would consider them "normal". CP is NOT "normal" to folks like that but both these are.

Dave

Yay! Thank you Dave and Carolyn!

I have shaddy garden that only gets 4-5 hours of sunshine, I would like to know which would do better, I have been reading the articles to see which ones would do better,All I have tried don't ripen well, the cherry tomatoes seem to do the best, but I would like a little larger tomato can someone help.

I am pretty sure, the reason for NOT getting fruits (OP's case) is not just the lack of direct sun. There must be other factors: NUMBER ONE: soil and nutrients. Four (4) hours direct sun in Atlanta (Zone 7) is not whole lot but you can grow pretty decent tomatoes. Down south a lot of gardeners actually shade their tomatoes. I have grown tomatoes in North Atlanta (Alpharetta). Some in partial shade/sun (about 4 to 5 hours). Now back here in PNW, I get about 4.5 to 5 hours direct sun.. Remember that Direct Sun is not the only light that plants get for their photosynthesis. Indirect, defused lights also count as LIGHT

I believe tomatoes are partial shade plants. In other words, they don't need more than 6 -7 hours max. The excess direct sun is actually not beneficial.
JMO.

Scored a few more points in Worm Hunt!

My grandmother had a solution. Me!

Plant asap. You can plant it deep and it will be ok. Remove the bottom leaf and plant a foot deep. Good luck.

Thank you edweather, and CaraRose! I will be putting these babies into the ground on Friday!

Yanks Fan,
I think the pot size is way too small even for small patio bush tomato. I have not grown any tomatoes in pot before but I think a 5 gallon bucket is about the smallest size. But it is possible with frequent fertilizing and watering to grow in a bucket. I am growing one Silvery Fir Tree Tomato in 5 gallon as a patio ornamental. This is going to be an experiment for me.

here is a picture:

So the pot holds about 2.19 dry gallons total.

Agree. Too small by at least half. Even bigger would be much better. Less work, better production, healthier plant, better moisture and nutrient control, etc. I don't grow even small dwarf plants in less than 7 gallons and standard plants get 15 gallons minimum.

Dave

This post was edited by digdirt on Fri, May 16, 14 at 10:28