16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Yanks Fan,
I think the pot size is way too small even for small patio bush tomato. I have not grown any tomatoes in pot before but I think a 5 gallon bucket is about the smallest size. But it is possible with frequent fertilizing and watering to grow in a bucket. I am growing one Silvery Fir Tree Tomato in 5 gallon as a patio ornamental. This is going to be an experiment for me.
here is a picture:
So the pot holds about 2.19 dry gallons total.
Agree. Too small by at least half. Even bigger would be much better. Less work, better production, healthier plant, better moisture and nutrient control, etc. I don't grow even small dwarf plants in less than 7 gallons and standard plants get 15 gallons minimum.
Dave
This post was edited by digdirt on Fri, May 16, 14 at 10:28
Your efforts thus far are sound but the merits of what you might attempt to do are questionable. Everyone has those ground-level suckers which actually do develop roots but the benifits to the mother plant are more doubtful- like planting 2 plants together.
If you remove those suckers and insert them in growing media - (I did 48 this morning in 5 minutes before going to a farmers' market) then in a few weeks you can replant them as rooted plants at a reasonable spacing; I use 23" in-row spacing this year for single stem plants in high tunnels. Square foot yields are hard to beat using that method.
nss213 - Spots develop on the older tomato leaves for all sorts of reasons, some bad, but are most no problem other than to indicate tissue death due to stress.
But it is the over-all health of the plant that should be the focus so that it can resist disease and pest problems. And with your plants the severe yellowing should be the primary concern as it indicates a more serious problem than the spots I see in your photos.
While it is possible that some of the spots in your photos could be signs of Early Blight it is not possible to say for sure from any of the photos. Removing the affected foliage and spraying them with a fungicide sure wouldn't hurt them, but it is the nutrient ad water issues that really need to be addressed.
They are growing in a somewhat stressed situation already from the over-crowding and the appearance of the soil condition in your pics so providing them with sufficient nutrients in a form the can use will go a long way to improving their situation.
When one is new to growing tomatoes and a problem develops the inclination is always to jump to the conclusion that it is a disease. But 8 out of 10 times the problem is actually related to the growing conditions rather than any disease issue. When the growing conditions are less than ideal to begin with then those odds go up even more.
Hope this helps.
Dave
First, read the How to grow tomatoes from seed FAQ here (just click on the blue FAQ button near the top of the forum front page). Then check out the Growing from Seed forum here for even more info on all the basics of potting mix, containers, watering, lighting, air circulation, etc.
Dave
Here is a link that might be useful: Growing from Seed FAQs
Think of it this way - hardening off developed plants means they have to be gradually, over several days and for brief periods of time, exposed to the very different environment of outside. First in the shade and only slowly exposed to the sun and wind vs. where they have been - indoors under light.
So if they are still small seedlings (not well developed plants), and you haven't "started hardening them off yet" then what are the odds of them surviving if you put them cold turkey "outside in the sun on nice days for a couple of hours"? Almost nil.
Outside temperatures, wind, and sun are not friends for young seedlings unless they were germinated and grown in those conditions OR unless they are mature enough to begin carefully hardening them off in heavy shade.
Dave
Thanks Dave and Linda. Will try with a few of the taller ones. In the meantime, I relocated my plants to another room, which has good light, but not ceiling to floor windows and much cooler, especially with the windows open and the cool winds. It was almost like being outside. We are looking at some cool but sunny weather, so I'd like to start bringing them out iin the shade tomorrow. Too soon for zone 5b?
mmm, why too soon... I mean tomatoes can linger outside as long as they have to til they get planted. As long as you can drag it back or in garage if the really bad weather strikes at this point I would not bother to keep lights going in zone 5. But thatôs me. 2 weeks of hardening is something I aim for.
Below is a link to a glossary. The FAQ on this site also answers many question.
Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato glossary
In addition to the above here is a direct link to the forum FAQs here.
Here is a link that might be useful: Growing Tomato FAQs
Being organic gardener simply means you wonôt use certain things in your garden. In my mind it is not equal to better. I much rather think of myself as biological gardener, one who uses understanding of the soil, its needs and distribution of nutriens.
Container gardening is way different that gardening in ground.
I second Neptune for foliar feeds. Love the stuff! I use mixture of fish, seaweed and molasses added for sugars. Everyone has their favorites as for NPK feeds, mine is Grow Big from Fox farms 6-4-4 till the plants start fruiting and then I switch to Amaze from Ag Lab 5-16-4 after fruit set.
I believe "organic" when it comes to fertilizers is MOSTLY an environmental concern and issue. The plants won't make distinction as what the source of NPK is nor veggie/fruit produced by either one will b any different as far as health and safety is concerned.
That is just my personal understanding.
Link to Mexico Midget below and I'm sure it was on that list of currant varieties I linked to above.
I see SSE as one of the seed sources, but a few years ago folks who got seed for MM from SSE didn't get what they were supposed to so Craig LeHoullier,his name is in the link below sent the correct seeds.
Above Darrel mentioned some LA, etc varieties from TGRC and I just wanted to mention that TGRC is an abbreviation for theTomato Genetics Resource Center and they are not a source of seeds to the general public, just those who, as tomato breeders submit an application stating how they are going to use what they request in their breeding efforts and documenting their previous experience.
Carolyn
Here is a link that might be useful: Mexico Midget
jadie-- how funny! Yes let's def keep each other posted on progress. And funny, it was sun sugar I picked up, I forgot ; )
How interesting that the currant tomatoes are completely different species! I obv know nothing about tomatoes-- I only tried growing them in the first place because a little produce stand not far from me sold little market packs of currant tomatoes and I got tired of spending $5 on them each week (or more). I love them so much! They weren't labeled beyond just "currant tomatoes" so I have no idea what they are really. I know I love roasting them w some olive oil and salt and a little garlic and making that my "sauce". Mmmmm. Sometimes adding other veggies but the tiny little tomatoes are always my fave thing in the mix. Just pop so nicely in your mouth and not all seedy and slimy inside if I eat them raw in a salad. With larger tomatoes, I usually spend a good amount of time cutting that slimy stuff away. I don't have time for that. Plus the tiny ones are so darn cute!!!
I've read up a little now on these Tess's ones and I'd love to try them but don't want to bother w seeds again yet. Hopefully they'll be available in plant form sometime; they certainly sound popular enough!
The very top growth - thin, wispy, tightly curled leaves - looks somewhat like possible exposure to herbicides - specifically something with 2,4 D in it. Possible drift from spraying as it can drift quite a ways. Is that possible? What type of mulch did you use? Bagged? Same on all plants or just this one?
Otherwise that particular plant is very anemic looking and appears over-watered too - thus the yellowing. With all the leaves in your beds they will need extra nitrogen feeding as much of it will be tied up in decomposing all those leaves.
As for the tall, spindly leggy look - that is usually only caused by one thing outside - insufficient sun/light exposure. In this case the radiating heat from that stone wall could be contributing as well.
Dave
The lady at the nursery said I could go ahead and plant it
Don't you just love nursery people that throw out advise with little concern for if it is accurate or not. Not to mention selling plants that already 1.5 feet tall.
Yeah what you are seeing is lots of environmental damage and the results of root damage from a plant that was too old and big to tolerate transplanting and was planted out way too early without protection or pre-warming of the soil. Variety has nothing to do with the problems.
As mentioned, strip off all the affected foliage, feed it well and cross your fingers. It may have already been exposed to bacteria or fungus issues given its weakened condition so if it was mine I'd plan to use a regular fungicide spray program on it too to increase its odds of thriving.
And do please avoid overwatering it. It will need time and somewhat drier soil for the roots to recover.
Dave
So the planting in WOW pays off. My plants doubled up in size for these 2 weeks, robust, dark green leaves, thick stems, setting up flower and looking great. Most people have not planted theirs, although this is first year I am seeing increase in simple cold frames and row covers at our community gardens so there are few people that planted some. Couple of people planted uncovered tomatoes about a week ago, bought in store as large size pots- those look trashy, lots of environmental damage.
I have planted all my tomatoes and created plastic wall wind protection around the bed, this area calls Windy city for a reason. So far so good. We will drop for 3 nights into low 40 but soil in beds holding very nice temps so am not worried. Did plant some peppers and eggplants so we will see, those ones usually like to stay about 50...
Good luck , Linda.
Low 40s, being 42F+ is fine, as long as the soil (where the roots are stay warm (50F ++, at 4"+ depth).
Other things about night lows:
If you look at HOURLY temperatures, you will see that the low last an hour or so. Lets say the low is forecast @ 44F ( 5:am). This will be a typical hourly temperatures pattern:
3: am >>46F
4: am >> 45 F
5: am >> 44 F
6:am >> 45 F
7 am >> 47 F
.............
The other thing is windchill effect when Relative Humidity is low. That can cool off the plant and remove moisture from it faster than if the winds were calm. So by having a wind barrier , or WOW, or cage wrapped with something can provide a good cushion.
FN:
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starting as of yesterday, we are going to have a nice 10 day weather, mostly sunny, temps in 65 to 80F range(for highs). I look forward to seeing my matoes to get a real boost for the first time since I planted most of them on Apr 4-5.
I have shaddy garden that only gets 4-5 hours of sunshine, I would like to know which would do better, I have been reading the articles to see which ones would do better,All I have tried don't ripen well, the cherry tomatoes seem to do the best, but I would like a little larger tomato can someone help.
I am pretty sure, the reason for NOT getting fruits (OP's case) is not just the lack of direct sun. There must be other factors: NUMBER ONE: soil and nutrients. Four (4) hours direct sun in Atlanta (Zone 7) is not whole lot but you can grow pretty decent tomatoes. Down south a lot of gardeners actually shade their tomatoes. I have grown tomatoes in North Atlanta (Alpharetta). Some in partial shade/sun (about 4 to 5 hours). Now back here in PNW, I get about 4.5 to 5 hours direct sun.. Remember that Direct Sun is not the only light that plants get for their photosynthesis. Indirect, defused lights also count as LIGHT
I believe tomatoes are partial shade plants. In other words, they don't need more than 6 -7 hours max. The excess direct sun is actually not beneficial.
JMO.