16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

Right, Dave.
I wouldn't waste my money on things that I don't know what it is.

A lot of water soluble fertilizes ( like MG all purpose green powder) are water soluble and can be foliar sprayed.
Foliar spray is good if your soil chemistry prevents uptake of certain elements, for some reason, I think. Otherwise it is best to feed the roots. JMO

Bat Guano, chicken manure, horse manure, cow manure,
Mycorrhiza, molasses, fish, seaweed, sea salt, bone meal, azomite are all organic growth activators. Just a play on words.

All,

Thanks for the various suggestions and tip on the forum.

When I say posthole, I am actually digging areas with a shovel. I had filled in a rectangular area last year and included some sunflowers which grew amazingly large and blotted the sun out for the other plants. This year I plan to expand that out and the ones I need to keep farther away would be sunflowers. A rectangular plot for tomatoes and peppers would likely be fine without the sunflowers included. I'll be sure to keep enough room for expanding roots.

Was also thinking about seed starters inside the house and transplanting later.

Thanks,

Bernard

Bernard,

You may want to consider researching "double digging" or "French Intensive" gardening method if your garden area is not too large. It is extra work but you may reap the benefits especially if the soil has not been worked for a long time.

George

Here is a link that might be useful: double dug garden

Agree about the syrup. Vasoline, motor oil, or tanglefoot will suffice. If you want the sticky cards usable over and again, put clear plastic over them(ziploc bag), then spread the substance. When it fills with corpses, remove plastic and start over.

Kevin

Just wanted to give an update---- after treating all my plants with bti, my two seedlings are finally seeing growth! Fungus gnats aren't gone by any means but I am just happy the baby plants are growing after weeks and weeks of doing nothing.

The two plants that weren't growing so well in the mixture of soils is finally seeming to grow! Yay! I believe the problem was with fertilizer. After adding fish emulsion & a lot of mg tomato fertilizer, they seem to be much happier in just a week. The other two plants in 100% mg moisture control are huge, perhaps 5-6 times larger than the others plants, all of the same age. Unfortunately I planted them too close together and the leaves are touching so I will expect disease later in the season and plant further apart next time.

I leave for vacation next week, so I'm excited to see what will happen in the 2 weeks that I'll be gone. Will update. I will def do another fish emulsion treatment before I leave.

Weather in SoCal has been amazing. :)

Btw I have been pinching off all the flowers and suckers off every plant, big or small. Should I start leaving the flowers on the larger plants? They're about a foot and a half tall now, not exactly huge but I wouldn't mind getting some tomatoes first ;)

As long as they are in a container of any kind - soil-less potting mix only. Brand is your choice.

Dave

Yeah, I was feeling the urge to see something green about mid-Dec haha, that's why my onions got started a couple weeks too early.

I use a lot of Bot. Int. seeds, I like the quality, they have a pretty good selection, and most of all, they are local. I have never had a problem with them, and the two nurseries I use down here in Littleton carry a wide selection from them so I don't have to pay shipping.

So last year what did you do with the seeds in baggies? If you haven't started seeds before the most important part is hardening off. This has to be gradual or the tender seedling with shrivel up dried out and broken in the wind and get sun burned. At the beginning of summer a fair skinned human should not go to the beach and lay in the sun. A tomato seedling can't go outside directly in the sun and wind either. Gradually put them out in a protected shady spot and increase the time as they get used to it.
This was years ago when I took my dog's place and grew plants there.

I guess I'm getting my terminology mixed up, I thought seed starter mix was the same as soil-less mix. The latter is what I intend to use.

There are soil-less seed starting mixes and soil-less growing mixes.

The seed starting mixes are normally a much finer texture, mostly just peat and vermiculite to retain water, and have no or very few added nutrients since the young seedlings don't need or tolerate them well sometimes. They are used in very small amounts just for germination and nothing else.

Soil-less growing/potting mixes have a more coarse texture for better drainage, include pine bark, perlite, lime, and added nutrients along with the peat. Many use them for both seed starting and for growing on as well as for container gardening.

I didn't think of that. I did buy transplants last year so I was thinking I would save money there this year

You can save money buy growing your own - after the initial outlay for decent equipment - lights and a heating pad. But the primary reason for growing your own is different variety access and the fun, not saving money.

For example (over-simplified but I think you'll get the idea) since I was price shopping today - would you spend more than $11 on transplants? Since you already have your seeds, 1 2 cf bag of MG Potting Mix - enough to grow 150 transplants easily for the garden costs $11.

Would you spend more than $21? The bag of MG and 1 shop light at Walmart plus 2 fluor. bulbs for it costs $21.50 and you'd have the light to use next year. Got any plastic butter tubs, yogurt cups, old containers, a bag of plastic drink cups from the Dollar Store you can make holes in the bottom of? Then you are set except for your hardening off issues. That has to be done right or it all goes down the tubes in just a few hours.

Dave

PS: edited to add I am not advocating Walmart or MG or any other product, just using it at an example since I happened to note the prices today.

This post was edited by digdirt on Fri, Mar 21, 14 at 15:38

Started seeds January 5; planted out February 15. Very mild Winter / Spring here this year.

Raybo

Thanks Raybo. It is likey that DTM = 60 days. That sound pretty good. On the package it says 55 days.

Sue, When you grow these varieties in pots what do you use for plant support? The cherry/ grape varieties you listed first are good varieties to grow but I find that the plant growth on those is vigorous and extreme. I can't imagine the advantage of growing these in pots without a strong support.

I have some tomato supports I bought at Gurneys online, that are stronger than the thin cheap round ones you can get at the big box stores, and I use them for container tomatoes and peppers. Fairly sturdy, but not even close to the Texas cages I use in the garden. I actually don't use cages for the cherry tomatoes in the garden, though. I have a raised bed I built with concrete garden wall blocks. I plant them along the edge and let them spill over the wall and sprawl onto the grass.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gurney's tomato cages

> I've seen a "Carla in Sac" post here but I don't know if she sells seedlings.

I think that's who it was. Sounds right. Apparently she's no longer doing it, then? Seems like we would have heard by now as most people here have had their tomatoes in for weeks.

I seem to recall she lived right near me, so it would have been convenient to buy them from her. I have no interest in ordering seedlings that have to be shipped in.

I may pass on tomatoes this year as I have to find varieties that won't fail on me, and all the nursery "heirlooms" are badly mongrelized stock anyway, at horrific prices ($4 for a 4" notional "heirloom" that won't bear a single fruit?). She had lots of varieties from good seeds.

For those of you in CA Tomatomania offers plant sales at several places.

I got an e-mail today about it and look to the right of the page below to find out when and where the other sales are.

it might just be that one is near you.

Go to:

tomatomaniahq@gmail.com

Carolyn

an old man told me this...put a handful of epsom salt and your fertillizer in the transplant hole, bury under roots a couple of inches, i did...12 mixed kinds of tomatoes from local nursery produced over 300 quarts (canned) in a raised bed 3x12 in chico tx...i filled in all holes with forrest compost from under oak trees (mycorrhiza)...the water was from a 240 ft well (really good), watered every other day in sandy loam soil...i still use epsom salt in garden today...i think it makes calcium available to plant in a good ratio...just guessing..the indian

oklahoma gardners...check out the mesonet site for ground temperature...very helpful...forgot to mention that better boy produced more tomatoes than other kinds...this season i plan to go bush tomatoes for canning..mountain variety developed in nc....the indian

labradors,

Yeah I pruned to 2-3 stems. Although by the end of the year I was sick of suckering and it got a little out of control. It was an everyday job wrapping the stems and pruning. This year I got some nice, tall collapsible cages and will just let them grow.

You can remove as many or as few suckers as you want when trellising, just depends on how strong a structure you have. Most of my growing now is on cattle panels, but before that I grew many years on 2x4's (or 1x2's for shorter beds) wired to tall heavy duty metal posts. I only pruned near the bottom to keep paths free for easy walking. I used baling string to tie the first leader up to the overhead board, and added new strings from above as I needed them for large side suckers. By the time you have from 3-5 strings per plant, you can usually weave the rest of the suckers in among the already supported ones. I like to call my method a suspended sprawl.

I do tie off each string below a sturdy branch elbow when first adding a string, after that it's all weaving. I have a wide open NE and E exposure to wind in thunderstorms and never had any collapses of structure or vines.

The main problem is if you are gone for a week, your new suckers will be snaking out and trying to go back to the ground. Late in the season, if I get sick of weaving, I may remove suckers that won't develop ripe fruit anyway if they get in my way. There is really no right or wrong way to do this. Whatever works for you, depending on your visual aesthetics and patience for maintenance. I feel that not pruning gives me better protection from sun scald of fruit, and if disease hits, I have more leaves as back up for the plant. If you live in a very humid region, pruning might make sense for better airflow, or maybe you just prefer the tidy look of heavily pruned tomatoes.

OK:

I have my tomatoes in the beds at about one foot tall. This year I've raised the beds much less than before (4" above grade with dimensions of 40" wide and 30 feet long). The beds have been double tilled down to a depth of 24". At this time soil sulfur and all purpose triple 15 fertilizer were incorporated to the same depth. This area was fallow for approximately 2 months.

The entire surface was, spread with 3-6" of well rotted manure and roto-tilled to a depth of 8". When marking out the beds,(immediately after roto-tilling) several pounds of Bone Meal were added along with an additional dressing of triple 15. Beds were well watered and allowed to partially dry out for a month before planting.

The beds are completely mulched with a layer of alfalfa as has been done for the previous 3 seasons of plantings. I have 3 drip lines the length of the 30' bed. The irrigation lines are : embedded emitters at 6” spacing 1/4” brown drip line from DIG Corp with a flow rate of .52 GPH @ 15 PSI and .65 @ 25 PSI (product copy from the Drip Store's web page).

http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_categories/90/drip_irrigation_parts/830

I staggered the 10 plants so there is a minimum of 40" between each plant. I will cage them when they need support. The varieties are: Sioux, Delicious, Violaceum Krypni-Rozo, Matina, Super San Marzano, Super Italian Paste

These plants are buried with 3-5" of main stem in the earth. The placement involved digging out a 12" diameter X 8" deep hole. At the very bottom was a triple 9 mixed in with the soil. Then a layer of soil free of fertilizer. The remaining area was filled in around the plant with a mixture of existing soil mixed with a small amount of rotted chicken manure and compost. The top 2" of soil out to a distance of about 12" was dressed with a timed release balanced NPK fertilizer.

The bed is in full sun. NO tomatoes in this area for 3 years. Last year's plantings consisted of radishes and carrots. Previous to that; garlic. I have two more beds ready to receive 2 more rows of tomatoes. The first of these next plantings will be at the end of March.

I hope all of you are moving forward in your gardening lives.

I have my tomatoes in the beds at about one foot tall. ..
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That is great. Well, you are in zone 9, SoCal , of course.
The way you've described your soil prep., sounds exceptionally good. ..24" deep, with all the amendments and nutrients.
About 900 miles up north in Seattle, WA, I am 2 to 3 weeks away from plant out. Maybe longer.

Good luck to you all !

Inside the seed there is very little substance. A little bit of a plant (embryo), and mostly endosperm. The endosperm serves no function beyond germination, so, if the seed germinates, then the endosperm will have no effect on plant vigor beyond that whether it be a 10 week or 10 year old seed.

Other then environment, the only determining factor in plant vigor would be genetics. During dormancy, genetic material is somewhat damaged, however, within cells there are enzymes which actually repair damaged DNA! In a seed cell, all functions, including enzymatic activity are held in a (nearly) suspended animation until seed dormancy is broken. One of the first things that happens is the enzymes go to work repairing the genetic material. If the DNA is so damaged that the cell can not repair it, it goes into cell suicide (apoptosis, programmed cell death). If enough of the genetic material is irreparable, we would not see any germination. If the damage is reparable, then normal cell life continues, assuming favorable growing conditions. I think, overall, aside from germination rate, seed age will not have any significant effect on overall plant health and/or vigor.

I just germinated 2006 seeds which were partially eaten by some mice I assume as friend who gave them to me at my request, told me. They went as gangbusters and plenty of life in those seeds that did not get destroyed.
Seed that takes forever to germinate has something lacking in it to function properly so out of entire batch you might get one or two plants that will be robust but rest will need lots of TLC. Since lots depends on care seedling receive I think you still can have nice harvest, just might need more work or will have to cull more seedlings to leave your with most lively one.

I now can negotiate the back stairs which allows me to reach the garden. Tomorrow I will see what is left.

I very much hope your plants hung on for you. I'm not familiar with Fl growing, but will you be able to start some new ones for the fall if not?