16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

Started seeds January 5; planted out February 15. Very mild Winter / Spring here this year.

Raybo

Thanks Raybo. It is likey that DTM = 60 days. That sound pretty good. On the package it says 55 days.

Sue, When you grow these varieties in pots what do you use for plant support? The cherry/ grape varieties you listed first are good varieties to grow but I find that the plant growth on those is vigorous and extreme. I can't imagine the advantage of growing these in pots without a strong support.

I have some tomato supports I bought at Gurneys online, that are stronger than the thin cheap round ones you can get at the big box stores, and I use them for container tomatoes and peppers. Fairly sturdy, but not even close to the Texas cages I use in the garden. I actually don't use cages for the cherry tomatoes in the garden, though. I have a raised bed I built with concrete garden wall blocks. I plant them along the edge and let them spill over the wall and sprawl onto the grass.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gurney's tomato cages

> I've seen a "Carla in Sac" post here but I don't know if she sells seedlings.

I think that's who it was. Sounds right. Apparently she's no longer doing it, then? Seems like we would have heard by now as most people here have had their tomatoes in for weeks.

I seem to recall she lived right near me, so it would have been convenient to buy them from her. I have no interest in ordering seedlings that have to be shipped in.

I may pass on tomatoes this year as I have to find varieties that won't fail on me, and all the nursery "heirlooms" are badly mongrelized stock anyway, at horrific prices ($4 for a 4" notional "heirloom" that won't bear a single fruit?). She had lots of varieties from good seeds.

For those of you in CA Tomatomania offers plant sales at several places.

I got an e-mail today about it and look to the right of the page below to find out when and where the other sales are.

it might just be that one is near you.

Go to:

tomatomaniahq@gmail.com

Carolyn

an old man told me this...put a handful of epsom salt and your fertillizer in the transplant hole, bury under roots a couple of inches, i did...12 mixed kinds of tomatoes from local nursery produced over 300 quarts (canned) in a raised bed 3x12 in chico tx...i filled in all holes with forrest compost from under oak trees (mycorrhiza)...the water was from a 240 ft well (really good), watered every other day in sandy loam soil...i still use epsom salt in garden today...i think it makes calcium available to plant in a good ratio...just guessing..the indian

oklahoma gardners...check out the mesonet site for ground temperature...very helpful...forgot to mention that better boy produced more tomatoes than other kinds...this season i plan to go bush tomatoes for canning..mountain variety developed in nc....the indian

labradors,

Yeah I pruned to 2-3 stems. Although by the end of the year I was sick of suckering and it got a little out of control. It was an everyday job wrapping the stems and pruning. This year I got some nice, tall collapsible cages and will just let them grow.

You can remove as many or as few suckers as you want when trellising, just depends on how strong a structure you have. Most of my growing now is on cattle panels, but before that I grew many years on 2x4's (or 1x2's for shorter beds) wired to tall heavy duty metal posts. I only pruned near the bottom to keep paths free for easy walking. I used baling string to tie the first leader up to the overhead board, and added new strings from above as I needed them for large side suckers. By the time you have from 3-5 strings per plant, you can usually weave the rest of the suckers in among the already supported ones. I like to call my method a suspended sprawl.

I do tie off each string below a sturdy branch elbow when first adding a string, after that it's all weaving. I have a wide open NE and E exposure to wind in thunderstorms and never had any collapses of structure or vines.

The main problem is if you are gone for a week, your new suckers will be snaking out and trying to go back to the ground. Late in the season, if I get sick of weaving, I may remove suckers that won't develop ripe fruit anyway if they get in my way. There is really no right or wrong way to do this. Whatever works for you, depending on your visual aesthetics and patience for maintenance. I feel that not pruning gives me better protection from sun scald of fruit, and if disease hits, I have more leaves as back up for the plant. If you live in a very humid region, pruning might make sense for better airflow, or maybe you just prefer the tidy look of heavily pruned tomatoes.

OK:

I have my tomatoes in the beds at about one foot tall. This year I've raised the beds much less than before (4" above grade with dimensions of 40" wide and 30 feet long). The beds have been double tilled down to a depth of 24". At this time soil sulfur and all purpose triple 15 fertilizer were incorporated to the same depth. This area was fallow for approximately 2 months.

The entire surface was, spread with 3-6" of well rotted manure and roto-tilled to a depth of 8". When marking out the beds,(immediately after roto-tilling) several pounds of Bone Meal were added along with an additional dressing of triple 15. Beds were well watered and allowed to partially dry out for a month before planting.

The beds are completely mulched with a layer of alfalfa as has been done for the previous 3 seasons of plantings. I have 3 drip lines the length of the 30' bed. The irrigation lines are : embedded emitters at 6” spacing 1/4” brown drip line from DIG Corp with a flow rate of .52 GPH @ 15 PSI and .65 @ 25 PSI (product copy from the Drip Store's web page).

http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_categories/90/drip_irrigation_parts/830

I staggered the 10 plants so there is a minimum of 40" between each plant. I will cage them when they need support. The varieties are: Sioux, Delicious, Violaceum Krypni-Rozo, Matina, Super San Marzano, Super Italian Paste

These plants are buried with 3-5" of main stem in the earth. The placement involved digging out a 12" diameter X 8" deep hole. At the very bottom was a triple 9 mixed in with the soil. Then a layer of soil free of fertilizer. The remaining area was filled in around the plant with a mixture of existing soil mixed with a small amount of rotted chicken manure and compost. The top 2" of soil out to a distance of about 12" was dressed with a timed release balanced NPK fertilizer.

The bed is in full sun. NO tomatoes in this area for 3 years. Last year's plantings consisted of radishes and carrots. Previous to that; garlic. I have two more beds ready to receive 2 more rows of tomatoes. The first of these next plantings will be at the end of March.

I hope all of you are moving forward in your gardening lives.

I have my tomatoes in the beds at about one foot tall. ..
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That is great. Well, you are in zone 9, SoCal , of course.
The way you've described your soil prep., sounds exceptionally good. ..24" deep, with all the amendments and nutrients.
About 900 miles up north in Seattle, WA, I am 2 to 3 weeks away from plant out. Maybe longer.

Good luck to you all !

Inside the seed there is very little substance. A little bit of a plant (embryo), and mostly endosperm. The endosperm serves no function beyond germination, so, if the seed germinates, then the endosperm will have no effect on plant vigor beyond that whether it be a 10 week or 10 year old seed.

Other then environment, the only determining factor in plant vigor would be genetics. During dormancy, genetic material is somewhat damaged, however, within cells there are enzymes which actually repair damaged DNA! In a seed cell, all functions, including enzymatic activity are held in a (nearly) suspended animation until seed dormancy is broken. One of the first things that happens is the enzymes go to work repairing the genetic material. If the DNA is so damaged that the cell can not repair it, it goes into cell suicide (apoptosis, programmed cell death). If enough of the genetic material is irreparable, we would not see any germination. If the damage is reparable, then normal cell life continues, assuming favorable growing conditions. I think, overall, aside from germination rate, seed age will not have any significant effect on overall plant health and/or vigor.

I just germinated 2006 seeds which were partially eaten by some mice I assume as friend who gave them to me at my request, told me. They went as gangbusters and plenty of life in those seeds that did not get destroyed.
Seed that takes forever to germinate has something lacking in it to function properly so out of entire batch you might get one or two plants that will be robust but rest will need lots of TLC. Since lots depends on care seedling receive I think you still can have nice harvest, just might need more work or will have to cull more seedlings to leave your with most lively one.

I now can negotiate the back stairs which allows me to reach the garden. Tomorrow I will see what is left.

I very much hope your plants hung on for you. I'm not familiar with Fl growing, but will you be able to start some new ones for the fall if not?

If the plants are nice and big, they may have survived. Last year our first freeze hit in mid September, and was probably around the same temps as you had, maybe a couple degrees either way. Nevertheless, I did not cover my tomatoes at all. The leaves on the very top and on the outside edges were burned, but the rest were untouched. I didn't get any more production (it was the end of the season) but the plants themselves lived for a good while longer.

The 1/3 that did not make it have lived for a couple weeks but are deteriorating and dying, I've pulled up a couple that finally keeled over.

I live in the hot and humid Ms. Delta and grow my tomatoes from seed. I only pot up once to 4 inch pots. Plant seed on Valentines Day and pot up first or second week of March. They go in greenhouse and I try to keep the night temp above 40 degrees. I try to plant to garden first or second week of April. That depends on the weather. If I have to hold the plants longer because of weather conditions the plants sometimes get to be 12" or larger in the 4" pots. I don't think I have ever had root bound plants. I have planted both horizontally and vertically. I find that planting vertically works best for me. I try to get the roots down as far as possible removing all but the top leaves. I think that deep planting keeps the roots cooler in our hot early summers.

"Just think about the advanced growth potted tomato plants that you see available in certain stores for a premium price. Those plants often have green fruit already hanging on them."

Tomato plants have a juvenile phase and a reproductive phase. Once the plant transitions from juvenile, it never goes back. This is critically important because a tomato plant grows fastest while it is still juvenile. Once the first flowers form, the transition to reproductive phase limits further growth. Why is this important? The biggest plants produce the most tomatoes! You don't get the biggest plants when you buy those "premium price" plants that already have tomatoes on them. So feel free to pay that premium price and harvest 1/4 as many tomatoes as I get setting out my 6 to 8 inch seedlings.

There is a caveat to the above. If you are gardening in a seasonally limited area, growing plants in large containers and then setting them out in the garden will advance your season. It is important when doing this to keep the plant growing vigorously and don't let it set flowers. If this is done properly, even very long season varieties can be grown in short season areas and production will rival anything growers in other climes can do.

As I have written on my website, the mantra of the tomato grower should be "Small but Healthy!"

Another question is, "How many hours of light and how many hours of darkness do tomato plants need?" And I'm not sure of the answer for that.

Though tomatoes are C3 plants, they apparently do need SOME period of darkness to be healthy. I have seen pictures of tomato plants that were grown under 24 hours of light with no darkness and they weren't healthy. BUT, I don't know the complete answer to that one.

If you plan to grow tomatoes under artificial lights, it would be good to research the optimal period of light and darkness.

It doesn't have to be labor intensive. I grow hot peppers and determinate tomatoes from fall until I begin getting fruit from my summer garden. A table, gallon jugs with the tops cut off and a south facing window. I pollinate with a finger tip. They do get light when the overhead light is on in the room but that is inconsequential. If there was much cost or effort involved I wouldn't bother. For support I've used the same wooden rods that were left over from a woodworking project for years. Some die before the end of the indoor growing season but never without providing some fruit first.

That's interesting Seysonn. While most people I talked to said there is no such thing as too much light, some others suggested that light was the culprit. Good to know that moving the lights up a bit helped you.

My pepper seedlings also had purple leaf undersides last year, but not as severe as the tomatoes, and they did not have any curling. I also suspected that heat from the lights may have played a role, but the air temperature under the lights was only 73ðF. This year I'll set the new bright lights about 4" above the seedling tops and start them out at 12 hours until they develop true leaves, and then gradually increase the light time to 16 hrs.

TomNJ/VA

I think, from what I have learned, plants need a limited amount of TOTAL light for their photosynthesis. Beyond that amount the light has no benefit and in the case of seedling and in the case long sunny summer days, excess light can be stressful.

Most would think that tomatoes would need lots of light, the more light the better. I DON"T THINKS SO. Tomatoes are partial sun, partial shade plants, I read a comment here not too long ago, somebody quoting a German gardener as saying that We consider tomatoes shade plants. There is some truth to that statement.

I have grown tomatoes withe 5 to 7 hours direct sun for years fairly successfully. My point was/is that PROBABLY (?!) 16 hours of light is excessive. !0 hours should be enough. People have grown seedlings on window sills with about 8 hours (+/-) for centuries. JMO

6ft oak stakes pre sharpened at Southern States of Huntington, W.Va are twelve dollars a doz. Good value but fair amt of work involved.

Bigpinks, ... that is a good deal. But oak will rot. Especially the part that is driven in the ground. But still, a buck a piece it sounds a good deal to me.