16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

I heard plants in the shade receive more light than bright bulbs inches over them indoors. I've heard this info from a few well known gardeners on youtube.

Thank you, I am going to have to think about how to do this. I didn't realize a completely shaded enclosure would still help hardening them off. I don't have overhangs on the house. I usually wait for a little bit of sun at least, then then start with an hour or two and increase from there. Can you do more than one trip outside per day at beginning? Like one in the morning and another in the late afternoon or evening? I am not sure how long it takes them to recover from the first trip outside. If they are in a shaded enclosure, they can right from that to full sun in garden? Or maybe one extra day of half sun then full sun? How long does it take when removing them from the enclosure?

I joined up for one reason and that is to fix those leggy tomato seedlings for you. Let me explain it this way...

I used to grow my tomatoes from seed all the time and then I got out of the habit for a few years. When I started back my plants would shoot right up and fall over...no matter what I did. It was very frustrating.

I followed every bit of advice I could find and my own good sense and still it was a mess. This went on for three seasons. Grrrr!

Then, I ran across a very simple suggestion and then it all made sense. All that goody goody do this and do that drivel I had been told prior went right into the garbage can.

See, when I used to grow my own plants I had a grow light. When I started back I did not. That was the answer.

Assuming you aren't doing something with your seeds that is off the charts, to get straight growing seedlings, all you have to do is to put a light right on top of them as soon as they pop up out of the pot. That's all.

A grow light is good. Short of that, a one or two bulb florescent is just fine. Put the light as close as you can to the new growth and keep it that way as they mature. Move them into the sun as fast as you can.

I don't care how bright it is in the house. You got to get the light right down on top of the seedlings to get their attention.

Follow this and you too will be what they call a "happy gardener" for sure!

It isn't always a light factor regardless what type and how close it is... sometimes it's the soil and/or lack of nutrients they need. Sometimes it's just the seed itself that isn't as great as the others even if they all came from the same fruit.

And like some mentioned... fans and burying the stringy stem works. All plants need fans for stronger roots, preventing mold and to help them not be as shocked once outside.

It was suggested to me that we skip a season, grow in pots, or bring in new dirt.

If I wanted to grow in pots, how about the alternative, dig holes in the garden and put new dirt just where I plant. Does that seem reasonable?

If we do want to replace dirt, can anyone suggest where to look? Does it mean bags of soil from a nursery?

In the mean time, I'm going to have my soil tested and see if there are any solutions to make the tomatoes happier.

thx,
rob

You don't need to replace your dirt, just amend it.

Whoever told you to replace your dirt just wants to sell you dirt!

It depends on what your options are. I, for one, wouldn't want to can tomato juice but MEAT. In this respect , roma, baby roma, san marzano are better options, IMO.

Another thing is that , canning whole tomatoes require a lot of space. I prefer making sauce , with about 75% space saving. In other words, one gallon tomato makes one quart of sauce. (aprox)

Super Fantastic do very well in Zone 6b or 7 in WA State

They are hardy for early transplant, do well in hot weather and produce loads of tasty fruit. They are moderate to heavy feeders that do very well on water soluble 16-16-16 with an added touch of sulfur.

SF's peel easily and preserve very nicely using water bath method.

In my experience black/brown tomatoes are more prone to crack than other.
But there is a way to avoid having cracked matoes: PICK THEM AS SOON AS THEY TURN COLOR (from green to red, pink, brown) and let them to sit on the counter (away from direct sun).

I garden where there may be very little rain during the growing season. The soil drains very quickly but I can often only irrigate twice a week. When I do, it is with field sprinklers just like in the alfalfa fields next door to the big veggie garden where the tomatoes are grown. The conditions are prime for splitting.

I'm not quite so stoic about splitting and not stoic at all about the decay that may result. There are some varieties that I just will not grow.

Thessaloniki should be mentioned as an heirloom that tends not to split. It was the first heirloom that I knowingly grew about 15 years ago and I've had it every year since. Porters never split. Those are just a few that come to mind.

I'd like to say that some gardeners seem to think that it is a tough skin that keeps the fruit from splitting. That may be true but flexibility is probably just as important. I'm probably not using the correct horticultural terms . . . elasticity??

Anyway, it is often said that SunSugar split less than Sungold. I agree but I don't find SunSugar has tougher skin that Sungold. It has a more tender skin but I like having both in my garden! For 10 years I have had a "trial" going on out there as to which is my "favorite." It is one of the happier parts of my gardening.

Steve

Soil in a container quickly compacts and doesn't drain well. It can stop root development and lead to root rot and death of the plant. That's why using it is never recommended.

And all sorts of things are labeled "top soil" so the quality is questionable to begin with. If it was labeled Miracle Grow Garden Soil then it says right on the bag that it is not for use in containers. For best results I would suggest you replant them in a proper container mix while it is still early in the season.

You can find much more detail on the problems of using soil/dirt in a container as well as the issues with using compost in one over on the Container Gardening forum here.

Dave

Thank you Dave for you suggestions. I'll transplant them in Garden Mix tomorrow. I read on the bag not for containers after I got home, but did not realize how crucial it was.

Yeah, unless you graft them on to new root stock they will be regular (as in never-grafted) Sungold. They aren't genetically altered just because they were once grafted onto something else. But then plain ole Sungold grows just fine for most of us who aren't plagued with soil-borne diseases.

Dave

If you read the link below you'll see that some say that fruit yield is increased, sometimes marginally, on grafted plants.

IF that's true with you grafted Sungold F1 plants then fine, but cuttings from the vegetative part should give you the normal number of fruits, which for me has always been high anyway.

CAROLYN

Here is a link that might be useful: rootstock and fruit yield

Just a follow-up to my original post. I selected the "Micro-Tom" variety. I did use the coffee filter method. Batch 1 (3 seeds) I left in the filter for 5 days. Batch 2 (3 seeds) for 6 days. After all 6 seeds germinated I planted them in two separate 3" pots and put them under the lights. All are doing well. Yes, planting the seeds is tedious. The only problem I ran into was figuring out the right way to plant them.(LOL) Once I mastered that everything is going ok. I like this method because I don't have to worry about using a heating pad to raise the soil temp. I also don't have to worry about the plastic dome covering the seeds in the tray/pots. How long to keep it on etc. Ok I realize that if you are planting a large quantity of seeds this method is not for you. But, I'm not. After I master this I will try the other methods. This is a fun and learning experience. Isn't that what gardening is all about? Well at least it is for me and by the way the "youtube" vids are very helpful. Amen

I have germinated seeds many ways:

1) in paper towel in zip bag
2) in glass jar
3) in a dish
4) in starting mix

Number (4) although is a direct sowing, but it is a bit tricky: How to Keep them Warm and control the Temps , moisture : The seeds are about 2 -2 1/2" away from the mat. The soil does not transfer heat efficiently UNLESS it it really HOT. Then your seeds might cook and/or the soil get dry fast. I don't like covering the soil to avoid damping off and fungus growth and gnat problem. Paper towel is good if you have to germinate just a few but if you want to germinate dozens, then direct sowing in starter mix is the best option and you have to learn how to tune HEATING and keeping moisture CONSISTENT.

Carolyn I hope you feel better soon and don't overdo.

Carolyn - I told you you shouldn't be playing tennis in the living room unless you moved the couch and rolled up the rugs! :)

$$$$$$

Not to worry Dave since right now I'm not even allowed in my living room, a step down from the rest of my home, so the tournament right now in Indian Wells, CA is being played without me.

But I can follow the scores on the net, which I know will make you feel much better about my obsession with tennis. LOL

Carolyn, waiting patiently for another foot of snow starting today . Good thing that I have plenty of dark bittersweet chocolate on hand.

Can You Start Seeds In a Hoop House ?

The answer, I think, is "YES" but it depends on the soil temperature rather than air temperature. Tomato seeds (and many other) need warm soil to germinate. Probably 60F is about the minimum. 75 -80 is ideal. I doubt that your soil temperature will get that hot under the hoop( considering the calendar and your zone). UNLESS you leave it on the garden bed for several sunny days. Anyway, it will take twice as long, even longer, in cooler soil for the seeds to germinate

This post was edited by seysonn on Mon, Mar 10, 14 at 3:47

We had a warm spell right after my seeds germinated, and I put them outside during the day right away. I watched them carefully to make sure they didn't dry out.

I don't think it's a good idea to go from indoors to outdoors that fast once they get true leaves. I plan to start planting this week, and I'm still moving some of the plants in at night and out all day in full sun.

Bump. I like it. Trying Sungold and Sweet Million for first time and returning to Choc Cherry in place of Black Cherry.

Grew them last year. Very productive, no splitting, very bad taste (or lack thereof).

The shipping kills you - that's why Dave said look for local distributor. I'm still waiting for my nursery to get back to me with ProMix/Fafard prices - hoping it will be less than the $38/bale at True Value I missed out on. If they get bulk discount from ProMix distributor I called, and they don't mark up too much, then give me 20% off, I might as well let them do the driving.

Fafard isn't too far from me in Agawam, MA (still over an hour) - but if they will sell 1 bale at wholesale it might be worth the drive (in car, not pickup). Only thing is, if I go up there in April/May to get a bale for potting up, I might end up having to spend money on Six Flag tickets for the family ;-)

I mixed my own:

3 parts coir - not a bale - it was already broken up - LOVE THIS
3 parts perlite
3 parts worm castings
1/4 part greensand
1/8 part lime

And when I potted up, I used solo cups :-)

I use one of those small four shelf greenhouses inside my larger greenhouse that would be costly to heat. Got one at Big Lots for $30. At the bottom of the small greenhouse I put a small crock pot filled dry with lava rock and leave it on all night. It makes a nice cozy environment and it's only 45 watts.

I missed part of your description of your GREENHOUSE in my previous response.

You have already experimented and have measured the temps. That is the way to do it. That gives you a pretty good idea as how hot it can get inside that mini greenhouse. I can guess that as long as the temperature outside is under 50F, there in NO chance for the temperature inside that MGH to go anywhere near 85F. It also depends on HOW MANY HOURS of direct sun it gets, how windy it is. If you are not using it to full capacity, I would suggest NOT to use the top shelf, where there is a possibility of getting much warmer.