16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

I agree that is a very potent fertilizer, especially if it is being used at full strength on a container plant. Try diluting it to 1/4 strength and use it carefully.

The stress of growing in such an artificial environment can be enough to trigger blossom drop. Add any additional stressor to that and it is almost guaranteed. Clearly the plants are quite leggy and stretched so insufficient light is one issue they have to deal with and the light spectrum required for blooming and fruit-set is another. Container size is another stressor.

Good luck.

Dave

Thanks for the thoughts. I went out today and bought some fertilizer designed for fruiting that is a 2-8-4 and flushed the plants like bmoser suggested. I will give it a shot and keep an eye on them over the next few weeks to see how the second set of blooms act.

Viv I did not say "liquid fertilizer isn't going to help". I said you have to understand how organic fertilizers work if you are going to use them so that you can choose the right ones and that the ones you can use in this particular situation will be the smelly ones.

There is plenty of info available on this subject on the organic gardening forum here. But basically most organics require active soil bacteria to convert the fertilizers to a form useable by the plants. It is referred to" the soil food web".

None of those soil bacteria exist in a soil-less potting mix unless you add them yourself in some form or use one of the soil-less mixes that already have them added.

Fish emulsion works but smells, kelp and various other seaweed based products work because like the fish emulsion, they are already suspended in a useable form, but it too smells, worm tea, and compost tea can work for the same reasons but smell.

Bottom line, you want to use only organics then you have to put up with the smell or use a mix that has beneficial soil bacteria already added. Otherwise, like most do, use diluted synthetics when dealing with young seedlings and save the organics for when the plants go out into the garden.

Please keep in mind that organic growing/gardening is a whole school of thought with a big learning curve. It requires time and experience so it isn't something one can just jump into and expect success. While all that research and learning is being done you sometimes have to accept compromises. In the case of growing young seedlings one often has to choose between odors or synthetics. :)

Dave

Dave, thanks again for your reply. I've fertilized them so we shall see how they do. I'll post an updated pic in a few days.

~Viv

OK> But the topic is :

"Parthenocarpic Tomatoes" !!!

I am sure there was life before hybrids and Parthenocarpic Tomatoes and again there are ways to deal with cool season and short season and there has been many topics/discussions about it.

But here we would like to talk about CONS and PROS of parthenocarpic tomatoes. Obviously, there are those who reject it as a useless concept . Certainly they are entitled to their opinions.

Another thing is that I never taught that HIGH HEAT should be a problem up way north in Ontario, Canada. I have gardened for years way down south, in Atl. GA(zone 8a), and though we had hot summers but I always had tomatoes all summer. Only Brandywine shut off.

This post was edited by seysonn on Mon, Feb 17, 14 at 5:36

I grew Siletz, a parthenocarpic tomato, in the summer in over 100 degree sustained heat. Yes - they do set fruit in the heat but the fruit is virgin fruit and will not produce seed until the temps cool down dramatically. The production in the heat was very good but the fruit shape and BER was a big problem.

I have never had luck with anything but a few determinates and hybrids down here in Tucson. All the indeterminates I have ever grown produce tons of foliage and very few tomatoes.

Tomato plants are a big liability for a vegetable gardener. In my opinion, their ability to develop and transmit so many diseases compared to the 2-3 small fruits I harvested (specifically on my indeterminate plants) each year was never worth the work (and related problems) required to grow them in my climate.

surya55- No, I didn't. I haven't got the space nor lighting to grow cucumbers inside.

Rodney

surya55 - that's the funniest part - the brand name of these tomatoes-on-the-vine is Magic Sun! You can see the sprouts trying to push through the skin here.

Yes, early blossoms can and often do slow plant growth potential, for the reasons I mentioned in my first post here.

There have been folks who have done the obvious, that is snip off all buds and blossoms on plant A and don't do it on the exact same plant in the same season,hopefully.

Results have varied, as one might expect , since different folks grow their tomatoes in different ways, some use amendments, some don't, and the weather in any given season can differ widely depending on where the plants are being grown.

I think someone above mentioned what I'm going to suggest but Im too lazy to go back and check.

I can't see the need for starting new plants when all you have to do is take some sucker ( lateral branch) cuttings, stick them into small pots with artificial mix, not water b'c if you do that the roots just have to readapt to a solid matrix.

Quite a few folks keep varieties over the winter and as the plants get bigger they have to take sequential sucker cuttings to get a plant the size they want to set out.

Carolyn

Oh forgot about that carolyn, you did mention it!

Hypothetically, if you never let a tomato plant bloom, would it grow longer with new foliage indefinitely?

And Im planing on popping off that sucker that shown... I read they should get about 3 inches and then be removed. The genes on the plant shown must be really good; its blatantly out doing all the other plants, even though they were all planted at the same time and have had the exact same conditions.

Not as if the other plants are doing poorly though... this one is just doing something stellar.

Here's my favorite tomato of 09 so far:

A little desert bounty with a blocky PDC in the middle.
This shows the deep pink better, hope.

The earliest ones were a little bigger. About half of them have an interesting cube shape. It's been over 100 degrees daily going on three weeks now, and these are going strong, still setting a few and looking like a plant that will make it to fall out here. I have harvested 38 and have another dozen looking good with about a dozen more very small ones recently showing. I imagine that number could be doubled or more in better conditions. They're a winner for appearance, taste, and heat tolerance. I wish I had more to share with friends.

4 more coming in soon:

I have a lot of blossom drop from the high heat, and the trusses could easily have held 10-12 maters in more hospitable conditions, instead of 3 to 6.

From what I understand, "Hybrid" didn't always used to mean F1. People used the word to describe stabilized crosses. Saw an article by the granddaughter of the founder of the Porter Seed Company (at Victory Seeds) which describes what seem to be stabilized crosses as "hybrids".

The nomenclature of the Porter family of tomatoes is confusing. I have what I think are the original pink Porter and the red Porter Improved (from Willhite seed). I've never seen seed offered for Porter Pink Slicing. Victory sells a pink "Porter Improved" (Porter's Pride), so maybe that's it. An inch and a half sounds a little small for a slicer, though.

TomatoFest sells a Porter Dark Cherry, but Bonnie has switched over to a pink "Porter Improved Hybrid" which they say is an inch long. They still use the same photo they've always used for various Porter tomatoes.

Your F1 results are impressive, HoosierCherokee. I've got Traveler 76, Burgundy Traveler and Bradley started this year. Also Indian Stripe and Eva Purple Ball. And some larger pinks. Drought permitting, maybe I can try a cross or two.

Great thread thanks to all.

They don't have to be exactly centered, just not so tight in the corners. As Destiny said a foot to a foot and half in (although I guess that would pretty much center the front ones anyway. :-)

Dave

Not going into details, I would/could plant 12 tomatoes in that raised bed/box or whatever, easily. That will be an average of 2.0 sqr-ft per plants. Considering that the planter is quite deep, this is my conservative approach. THAT IS 8 CUBIC FEET (over 50 gallons of root area/soil per plant)

I know this is resurrecting an old thread, but I was googling "Snowball" and it seems that there are some places that think that Snowball and White Beauty are the same tomato. Is that true?

Is it a small cherry tomato, or a large tomato?

I'm finding a lot of conflicting info :(

My mother grew snowball back in the 40's. I tried it here in Georgia about 2000. Did not seem the same as the one my mother grew. Produced small tennis ball size tomatoes. Good as any almost white tomato that I have grown but pretty bland. Mostly a novelty in my opinion. Shumway pushed it back in the olden days.

Everything else I grow is open-pollinated and produces very well.

Jay - curiosity - by "everything else" I assume you mean tomatoes? If so what other varieties are you growing that do well in your climate?

Reason I ask is climate, not variety, is your biggest handicap to overcome given the nature of tomato pollen and climate can be 'adjusted' somewhat.

Dave

Dear Dave,

When I say 'everything else' I mean I have found other vegetables that are open-pollinated - such as cucumbers, beans, lettuce, etc. that produce (and taste) good in my climate (often better than their hybrid counterparts). I just have not found any open-pollinated tomatoes that produce a decent amount of slicing tomatoes.

You are right in saying that climate is my biggest handicap. Some hot climates that do not experience freezes over the winter can grow tomatoes over the winter but those of us that have very hot summers (105F + day and 80+ at night) yet still experience freezing temps in the winter are often stuck with tomato plants that produce very little - if anything or with growing a few hybrid varieties.

What I do to adjust for the climate is the following:
1. I plant my tomatoes in a lowered garden (lower does equate to slightly cooler)
2. I grow tall shading plants on the West side (the sun is hottest and causes the most problems for tomatoes in the later afternoon).
3. I plant my tomatoes far from walls or other sources of radiant heat.
4. I water every 2-3 days with a soaker hose for 2 hours to encourage deep root growth (When I used to water every day I would have lots of disease and very few tomatoes).
5. I provide my plants with non-water soluble nutrients early in the season (near the plant) so that fertilizing does not occur during the greatest period of heat.
6. I provide a 2 foot deep bed that is full of rich organic material.
I am sure I could do something else, but this is all I can think of for now.

I believe the kind of tomato cultivar I am looking for most can be called vigorous determinate (something small with a lot of dense foliage) that can produce tomatoes in the heat. Though my Siletz plants seemed to fit everything I am looking for (including production), the fruit exhibited a lot of BER - just like some of dwarf varieties I have trialed. As there is plenty of calcium in my soil I attribute the BER to some factor related to the root system of particular cultivars. A friend of mine that grew Siletz in a much cooler climate also had problems with BER only on the Siletz.

I buy my seeds and would like to try saving my own, so I hope I will be as successful!

Now I'm really proud ! To be called successful ! I'm a gardener !

Seysonn- I'm not much of a tomato guy but I'm growing tomatoes so that I can make some great salsa. Are there any tomatoes that you can think of that you can think of that will be good in salsa but also for my conditions of growing?

For salsa you can use most any variety but your short season is your biggest handicap for growing. If you stick with short DTM varieties (aka Early varieties) then consider Grushovka, Siletz, Matina, and maybe Silvery Fir Tree or Clear Pink Early if you are growing your own from seed.

If you are buying transplants then it will all depend on what varieties are available for you to buy locally.

Dave

Visiting Germany I saw incredible tomatoes growing within thick high hedges. When I questioned lack of sun I was told Germans consider Tomatoes shade plants. This year I am doing an experiment on my west facing Lanai in Southwest Fl. I have 20 plants from seed in large pots - they get Sun only when the sun passes over our building (about 1:30 to 6:30 or 5 hrs). 10 get sun through a dark screen which is cuts down the sun quite a bit. The other 10 get it direct.
Results so far: All are thriving even with the 4-5 hrs sun they get. Those that get their sun through the screen have blossoms (35 so fasr), those with direct sun have no blossoms but the plants look great.
The ones that get direct sun wilt during the direct sun period, the others do not. Within 2 hrs past direct sun the wilted plants recover.
All are watered the same and I use a soil moisture meter to follow that (ususally every 3 days).

I will continue the expt a bit longer but will likely get my 10 Sunnies behind a screen.

Good info about shade tolerance of tomatoes.
In my garden I get about 4-5 hrs of direct sun. Last year it was ok. The problem was long extended rainy cool spring weather. I consider 5- 6 hrs quite adequate for tomatoes in warm climates like south and central Florida. In bright day, the plants also use the indirect light for their need, though it is of low intensity.Shade is not a TOTAL DARKNESS.