16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Everything else I grow is open-pollinated and produces very well.
Jay - curiosity - by "everything else" I assume you mean tomatoes? If so what other varieties are you growing that do well in your climate?
Reason I ask is climate, not variety, is your biggest handicap to overcome given the nature of tomato pollen and climate can be 'adjusted' somewhat.
Dave
Dear Dave,
When I say 'everything else' I mean I have found other vegetables that are open-pollinated - such as cucumbers, beans, lettuce, etc. that produce (and taste) good in my climate (often better than their hybrid counterparts). I just have not found any open-pollinated tomatoes that produce a decent amount of slicing tomatoes.
You are right in saying that climate is my biggest handicap. Some hot climates that do not experience freezes over the winter can grow tomatoes over the winter but those of us that have very hot summers (105F + day and 80+ at night) yet still experience freezing temps in the winter are often stuck with tomato plants that produce very little - if anything or with growing a few hybrid varieties.
What I do to adjust for the climate is the following:
1. I plant my tomatoes in a lowered garden (lower does equate to slightly cooler)
2. I grow tall shading plants on the West side (the sun is hottest and causes the most problems for tomatoes in the later afternoon).
3. I plant my tomatoes far from walls or other sources of radiant heat.
4. I water every 2-3 days with a soaker hose for 2 hours to encourage deep root growth (When I used to water every day I would have lots of disease and very few tomatoes).
5. I provide my plants with non-water soluble nutrients early in the season (near the plant) so that fertilizing does not occur during the greatest period of heat.
6. I provide a 2 foot deep bed that is full of rich organic material.
I am sure I could do something else, but this is all I can think of for now.
I believe the kind of tomato cultivar I am looking for most can be called vigorous determinate (something small with a lot of dense foliage) that can produce tomatoes in the heat. Though my Siletz plants seemed to fit everything I am looking for (including production), the fruit exhibited a lot of BER - just like some of dwarf varieties I have trialed. As there is plenty of calcium in my soil I attribute the BER to some factor related to the root system of particular cultivars. A friend of mine that grew Siletz in a much cooler climate also had problems with BER only on the Siletz.
For salsa you can use most any variety but your short season is your biggest handicap for growing. If you stick with short DTM varieties (aka Early varieties) then consider Grushovka, Siletz, Matina, and maybe Silvery Fir Tree or Clear Pink Early if you are growing your own from seed.
If you are buying transplants then it will all depend on what varieties are available for you to buy locally.
Dave
Visiting Germany I saw incredible tomatoes growing within thick high hedges. When I questioned lack of sun I was told Germans consider Tomatoes shade plants. This year I am doing an experiment on my west facing Lanai in Southwest Fl. I have 20 plants from seed in large pots - they get Sun only when the sun passes over our building (about 1:30 to 6:30 or 5 hrs). 10 get sun through a dark screen which is cuts down the sun quite a bit. The other 10 get it direct.
Results so far: All are thriving even with the 4-5 hrs sun they get. Those that get their sun through the screen have blossoms (35 so fasr), those with direct sun have no blossoms but the plants look great.
The ones that get direct sun wilt during the direct sun period, the others do not. Within 2 hrs past direct sun the wilted plants recover.
All are watered the same and I use a soil moisture meter to follow that (ususally every 3 days).
I will continue the expt a bit longer but will likely get my 10 Sunnies behind a screen.
Good info about shade tolerance of tomatoes.
In my garden I get about 4-5 hrs of direct sun. Last year it was ok. The problem was long extended rainy cool spring weather. I consider 5- 6 hrs quite adequate for tomatoes in warm climates like south and central Florida. In bright day, the plants also use the indirect light for their need, though it is of low intensity.Shade is not a TOTAL DARKNESS.
You have not said anything about fertilizing !!
How often you water it ? 200w for a single plant, under LED?
Probably it has been OVER fertilized, OR over watered. OR both.
The color of the foliage (if it is true, at correct camera light) tells me the plant has got a high dose of Nitrogen.
Thanks for the input. The plant has received no fertilizer yet except for the ferts in the Roots Organic Original soil. I've been watering up to 75 percent of field capacity and then letting it dry out to 30 percent before watering again. I do this by weight on a very accurate scale.
As for the light, I have grown a 4 foot "Red Cherry" plant with great results. (Got 92 golf ball sized tomatoes and another 80 or so on the plant when I switched to tap water and that killed the plant. Later found the pH of my tap was 8.31)
And "long run" is what you just did in your above post Keith.LOL
Excellent post.
I'll save this thread just for your post, or maybe I'll just cut and paste it to elsewhere.
Considering so much that you've included at your superb website, I wish that you'd consider writing a book, for the home grower mainly , because you write well, explaining many of the issues that have been dealt within this thread, as well as many more.
And yes, it was Keith who first clued me into the minor mutations that could occur such as differences in internode distances, as well as ways in which mutations could lead to, for instance, going from an RL leaf form, homozygous dominant, to heterozygous, still dominant
to homozygous recessive, then PL.
I knew of all the DNA mutations that could occur by looping out, repeats, inversions, etc, and knew them with viruses which I'd worked with, as well as some bacteria, but just never made the connection, never even thought about it when it came to tomato genes, Sigh,
Carolyn
Thank you! What great responses and what a wonderful education I am getting! My genetics classes in college came flooding back. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions so thoroughly. I have been known to "over think" things as Carolyn pointed out early on. But clearly I have been shown to be an amateur in this regard.Turned out to be one of my favorite threads. Thank you all for taking the time to educate me. :)
I like tomatoes canned whole. And I like them on the smallish side: this way, they fit better in the jars leaving less empty space between them and I also like when they fit whole into my mouth. :)
Last year, I had success with canning Juliet (red) and Joe Lauerer's Pink German Eggs (light pink) as whole-canners, they are small, keep their shape well in jars and stay firm, not mushy when canned. Somehow, I didn't like San Marzano Nano as whole-canners, maybe, they are better for sauces.
This year, I will also try for the first time these as my whole canners:
-Heidi
-Legenda Tarasenko
-Mountain Magic
-Principe Borghese
I am trying to locate the seeds for Kada tomato - someone on the forum recommended them as âÂÂsmall and hard as rockâ - just what you need for canning whole. :)
By the way, Green Zebra is not good for canned whole: I added a few GZ into jars to diversify the colors, but Zebras turn mushyâ¦.
This post was edited by green_go on Fri, Feb 21, 14 at 14:14
I think you are right, Smithmal. I am going by 6 weeks (roughly speaking. Then I also have a small Cold Frame that I can shelter my seedlings overnight, while hardening them off. I am also going to build a portable hoop for early spring use.. Planting too early even when there is no danger of frost won't do any good if the temps are on the cool side.
My other plan is to cover the beds with CLEAR PLASTIC to warm up the soil a few degrees (Just leaving openings for the matoes.)
Thanks for the advice. I will probably wait until about March 1 to the 7th. I wanted to start early as my plants tend to grow kinda slow in a cooler part of the house. ...and then there's the darn "polar vortex" again! next week when we go back into the 30's during the day and the teens at night. uhhhhhh........ Thanks Brian
Carolyn,
Leave it to you to inject humor! Which all gardeners need! I confess, I did use a few clear plastic containers last year as a last resort, and they did germinate very fast, but were not the healthiest seedlings. Correct me if I`m wrong here but germination does not require direct sunlight as much as warmth?
I worried alot about temperatures as the seedlings grew, but apparently tomato seedlings do not need an overly warm environment, just lots of good light.
BTW, I don't understand how do they qualify to be called "SMART" !!!
I dont have a clue, why they are called smart, this is my first year to try them so I need education, I guess when I said raised bed I was speaking of the affect that the earth below the grow bag has on the substrate inside of them, since these are made of a permeable material what affect does the ground have on them as far as the hydrology affect is concerned? I kind of new the garden soil would not be correct dogdirt thanks for the info roots cannot go into the ground agreed, soiless mix definitely, maybe a little more water retentive then standard 511 if it is setting directly on the ground?
Thanks bmoser and mule,
As you pointed out, most variety name are just confusing.
I suspect that they have given many different names for the same thing. Just as you said, Aunt Ruby, Aunt Judy, Aunt Dorothy, ..GERMAN GREEN, Cherokee green,, plus a whole lot more are almost identical and what I have in my first picture is one of them.
Well, we will have to wait til DNA becomes affordable.
Thanks. Like I said the website called the EVP a unique or different flavor... got me a little nervous
I bought 2 CP's at Lowes last season. It may be the best tomato I have ever eaten.
I am growing from see for the first time. Getting excited and eager to taste results. I will report back the 5 varieties I am trying this season.
Cherokee Purple
Vinson Watts
Eva Purple Ball
Matts Wild Cherry
Chocolate Pear
Matts Wild Cherry is very very tiny and will reseed next year. I think it is kind of pretty for a tomato. The little tomatoes are really red. I cut the sprays of fruit because it is tedious to pick and the skin pulls off when you pull on it. I would plant it closer to your door or in a special place. Eva is a nice pink medium sized tomato. It has a good taste but not unique in my opinion. Cherokee Purple is a good one. It is a more fragile tomato. They rot for me in rainy weather which is rare here in summer but it tastes great.
I posted a link that may help from Rutgers talking about the Ramapo and Rutgers ect.... I grew the about 10 Ramapo plants last season for myself and family/friends it did great and tasted great and very prolific. But I am no expert but have been eating Jersey tomatoes my whole life same with others that have tasted them and I and the people who had the Ramapo aggreed it was great.
This year I am ordering Ramapo again (even though I kept last years pack), KC 146 and a Moreton just to compare. As stated above, I read from Rutgers site that they are trying to revive the original Rutgers or close to it.within a year or so. I also hope to make it up to the Rutgers event this year.
Also on that site the order form is for them, it says 2013 but it is updated.
I hope this helps,
Mr. Beno
Here is a link that might be useful: Rutgers U
I've now received my Victory Seeds order and sent off my Rutgers order form, so I'm well on my way to a Joisey tomato-off in my garden this summer!
I did rummage around in old threads and found some of the Rutgers discussions I'd been thinking of - it seems that there are determinate, semideterminate, and indeterminate versions out there all just labeled as 'Rutgers.' I presume this is due to the continuing segregation the Rutgers NJAES referenced. Victory indicated determinate, so hopefully I'm getting something close to the iconic Rutgers tomato, but for my purposes I don't know that I care about the determinancy overly much. I will be slightly disappointed if it survives the toxic maelstrom of foliage disease that is my garden only to abruptly quit making tomatoes, but I doubt that will be the case.
I will be very excited to see what Rutgers NJAES comes up with for their Rutgers re-intro.
Thanks everyone for your input! Now please make it stop snowing so I can plant tomatoes!
~emmers
I know this is resurrecting an old thread, but I was googling "Snowball" and it seems that there are some places that think that Snowball and White Beauty are the same tomato. Is that true?
Is it a small cherry tomato, or a large tomato?
I'm finding a lot of conflicting info :(
My mother grew snowball back in the 40's. I tried it here in Georgia about 2000. Did not seem the same as the one my mother grew. Produced small tennis ball size tomatoes. Good as any almost white tomato that I have grown but pretty bland. Mostly a novelty in my opinion. Shumway pushed it back in the olden days.