16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Awesome advice, thanks everyone. I suspected ph but from my reading applying ample compost helps neutralise the soil? I do water with bore water that I know is quite high ph.
Off to town today to purchase soil pH tester. Reckon it will still be too late to help these plants now ey?
Cheers
Dan
moontree - if you will read through the BER FAQs here as well as just a few of the many discussions about it on the forum that the search will pull up for you, you'll discover that the primary causative factor in it is unstable, inconsistent soil moisture levels. Assuming the potting mix contains adequate Ca, and most do - that soil moisture problem prevents adequate/even distribution of the available Ca to the fruit tissues.
You are apparently trying to grow plants in containers and indoors. That creates a whole different set of problems and we'd need much more info to narrow down the contributing factors.
From the info provided, you are using a far too small container for most tomato plants - even for a determinate - and using a coir mix which may or may not be compounding both the Ca and the soil moisture issues. And doing it indoors so it lacks sufficient sun. Plus your plant food is lacking in some vital nutrients.
So given all that it is very unlikely that the low humidity is contributing to the problem. Rather the growing conditions that you have describe are far, far more likely to be causing the problems.
Dave
PS: it would be helpful to know your zone/location as well.
How large an area are you wanting to enclose? And from what pests? Different varmints require different structures. Something like the above appears far to small to be of much practical use.
Google pulls up all sorts of images of full garden protection structures. Everything from low.high tunnels to simple PVC pipe arches covered with insect barrier or chicken wire to structures made from bird netting/plastic deer fencing to sturdy wood frameworks enclosed in screening, sunshade cloth, or fencing.
Just avoid the use of any plastic sheeting as the trapped heat, especially in your location, can quickly kill the plants.
Dave
Here is a link that might be useful: Garden protection structures
Grafted tomatoes don't necessarily provide any more protection against early blight than do non-grafted plants since the spores are airborne. At best, depending on the rootstock you used, you might increase the resistance a minimal amount and so delay the onset by a few days exposure. Defiant and Legend are the two varieties listed as the most EB tolerant, not resistant, "tolerant".
The use of Daconil and similar fungicides from the day of plant-out has proven to be far more effective as a preventative measure.
That said if you want to try doing it then check out the other discussion on grafting just down the page. In it I included a good how-to-do-it link as well as links to the many other discussions here on grafted tomatoes.
Dave
Here is a link that might be useful: Grafting tomatoes discussions
Thanks for the link Dave! I get all warped out of shape when I begin to think of all those beautiful transplants I've planted, only to watch them, one by one, fall prey to EB...... Obviously, grafting isn't going to solve my problem.......
Daconil is my fungicide of choice & I spray it early & often, but I wonder if I'm actually spraying it starting with day one. Me thinks not.......
I will also try Defiant & Legend..... Last year I planted my usual (15 each) Celebrity, Mountain Fresh, & Jet Star. Mountain Fresh was the most EB resistant, but still succumbed......
Still might try grafting a few Defiant or Legend for fun.....
The variety named Hundreds & Thousands was developed by Sutton's Seed (UK) about 3 years ago and other than someone who was selling the seeds on ebay the only other current supplier I know of outside UK is in Canada. They are just too new for wide seed distribution yet.
Instead for baskets look at - Baxter's Early Bush, Tumbling Tom (Red or Yellow), Whippersnapper, Floragold Basket, Red Robin, Garden Pearl to name a few. Success and production will depend on the size of the basket - bigger the better.
Hope this helps.
Dave
PS: using normal conditions won't make Yellow Pear any better. :)
That's too bad about those Hundreds & Thousands, they look so nice :) Thank you for recommendations on similar types! I want to have a nice color and fruit size varieties on those so I'll take a closer look how the ones you listed will do. Hopefully I'll find some currant size. What size baskets do you recommend? I want the vines to be able to grow few feet down.
Rafal
PS: thanks for the tip ! I definitely won't grow those anymore. I couldn't believe how bad they were. Tiny Tim's were a lot better tasting, on the sweet side. I'm trying to grow the black Krim and Cherokee Purple now :) but we'll see how they turn out under fluorescents.
After several years of growing many varieties of organic heirloom tomatoes, I am concluding that heirlooms are simply sparse fruit producers in general
I would strongly disagree with that conclusion and I'd suggest that you first detail and re-evaluate the growing methods you are using since that, and not the variety, most determines production. This given the fact that many growers, especially in CA, are quite successful growing heirlooms.
I'm also curious about your use of the term "organic heirlooms"? The two terms are not synonymous. Do you mean you are gardening organically or only buying organically grown transplants?
You might also want to read through the many previous discussions here on grafting. Like everything else in gardening it has its pros and cons.
Meanwhile check out this how-to graft tomato plants link.
Dave
Here is a link that might be useful: Grafting tomatoes discussions
You Prices seem to be very reasonable. May be too low.
You should promote volume pricing. Like $3 per plant under 5. $2.50 ea. for 5 and more.
I think HEIRLOOMS, is a good niche marketing. You need to set yourself apart from big growers and the big box stores. People will be willing to pay a little more for hard to find varieties.
You need good appealing pictures and nice description. Provide good planting , care and growing guides.
Good luck !
The Jelly Bean I know is an F1 hybrid, not an heirloom.
Link below.
Is there an OP one somewhere?
I know the F1 Jelly Bean is available at Pinetree and Trade Winds and some other places as the link indicates.
Carolyn
Here is a link that might be useful: Jelly Bean
Of the hybrid grape tomatoes I've grown the Cherubs, Santa Sweets and Smarty F1. My Fave would be Santa Sweet Sweets.
I know of no one who has dehybridized any of them although saved F2 seeds from Santa Sweets F1 are known to come true about 99% of the time and many folks are on the F6 and F7 and all is well.
I know of just one grape tomato that is OP and that can be found at Tomato Growers Supply, just called Grape Tomato.
I haven't grown it and don't intend to.
Fact is, I don't see anything special about a grape shape, so have other red cherries I prefer to grow and there's a thread here on this first page now, with lots of links to past discussions about cherry tomatoes.
Hope that helps,
Carolyn
Fedco seeds carries Rutgers and gives some info you might be interested in. I'm working on a Fedco order and just read the info on Rutgers. Hth.
4055TO Rutgers Tomato OG (75 days) Open-pollinated. Ind. Two varieties are called Rutgers. We sell the original strain of this famous New Jersey tomato, developed by CampbellâÂÂs Soup Co. in 1928 as a cross between Marglobe and JTD. When Rutgers University âÂÂrefinedâ the variety in 1943, they took out some of the vininess but also some of the flavor. Our taste tests confirm that the original indeterminate strain is better. Long considered an outstanding slicing, cooking and canning tomato, the medium-sized 4��"6 oz mostly uniform and unblemished deep oblate fruits with rich red interior and pleasing texture have that great old-time flavor, delicious and juicy. Resistant to F1, V1, ASC and GLS. OT-certified.
Item Quantity
A=0.2g for $1.30
B=0.4g for $2.20
C=1g for $3.60
D=2g for $5.60
E=10g for $20.00
My info was that Rutgers was reintroduced in 1933, but maybe my brain and my fingers weren't working together, so it could have been 1943.
If you want the original indeterminate Rutgers, then Fedco looks like your best bet.
Almost all other Rutgers listed at most seed sites now are determinate.
Carolyn
I grew them several times and they are very sweet but I have no experience with Sungold so cant compare. Like most cherries they will crack easily but are prolific and the plant is hardy. I have grown e black varieties and Italian Ice but would say I like OP better than the other three. Chocolate Cherry second then II and Black Cherry last. jmo
Name is Datterino (note 'o') and from what I have read about it on other forums the seed is patented still and currently available to only a few commercial growers who grow for commercial canners - predominately European apparently. It is a thick skinned tomato designed for the shipping market.
Linked the developers website - United Genetics - below.
As for a better sauce, nothing says it can only be made from a paste type tomato be they San Marzano or whatever. There have been many discussions here, on the Harvest forum, and on various cooking forums about how using a variety of tomato types, including slicers and beefsteaks, results in a much superior tasting sauce than that made from any single paste variety tomato.
If using only paste types is your preference for some reason then consider Opalka.
Dave
Here is a link that might be useful: United genetics
If it is developed for commercial growing and canning, then probably it is not worth for home gardeners who want good taste first. In other words, it won't be any better that your average grocery store types. Though, it might be appealing to those who do a lot of canning.
Even if you could rescue those seedlings, they will not develop into vigorous plants. Though I doubt that they can be rescued as you have described.
I would start anew.
Agreed. Tomato plants are very fragile and even if you manage to "heal them up" the stress has caused serious development problems which probably will lead to stunted growth, low flowering and few fruits. If I were you I'd re-germinate now and keep them in your house until you can properly harden them off. If you can't keep your ambient temperatures within your hoop house at least 40F, I wouldn't bother trying to grow tomatoes with them.
smithmal