16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

Black and Brown Boar is a good small black striped one.

Thanks for the help, everyone.

Rodney

Well, it depends how 'Name Specific" and "picky" one is about it. I have always been of the opinions that you are going to get a decent tomato, regardless. The seed, by the the law of HEREDITY and statistical probability may revert to one or both of its parents. The stronger gen will be more dominant.

Well, it depends how 'Name Specific" and "picky" one is about it. I have always been of the opinions that you are going to get a decent tomato, regardless. The seed, by the the law of HEREDITY and statistical probability may revert to one or both of its parents. The stronger gen will be more dominant.

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I usually cut and paste comments or questions so I can remember what was being asked. ( smile)

Dehybridization of a hybrid, whether a known one or an accidental one never reverts 100 % to either parent, or parents, in the case of more modern hybrids which have many parental inputs.

Why is that?

I'm linking below to Keth Mueller's superb website and starting on thepage where he uses eggs to demonstrate homozygosity vs heterozygosity.

Then go the next page, link at the bottom of the first page, etc.

And there Keith explains why total homozygosity can never be reached. He offers a reason why and to that I'd add that some genes are linked so very hard to seperate during genetic segregation.

I hope the link below will be helpful.

His whole site is a treasure house of tomato information and here's the link to the Home page.

http://www.kdcomm.net/~tomato/

Carolyn, who has dehybridized a known F1, Ramapo, as well as an accidental cross thatl led to the variety OTV Brandywine,

Here is a link that might be useful: Crosses. segregation and more

In this thread the straight seedling looks fine to me. In your other post about problems with seedlings, they did look a little scorched or something. So you have improved.

The seed leaves have to emerge from the seed coat. If it is dry they can stick and get twisted. Seed leaves don't have to look good. Soon you will get some true leaves. I have had the seed coat stick and had to help the leaves unfurl. I have read Carolyn speak of the problem and she suggested a little saliva (spit).

I see nothing wrong with your best seedling in this picture.

This post was edited by helenh on Wed, Nov 6, 13 at 1:45

As much as I hate to destroy something that is still alive, sometimes it's best to cut your losses and concentrate on that which is healthy.

Welcome to the forum, SunQueen. :)

Having grown tomatoes in 5 gallon buckets (which yours look to be), I second the advice to water regularly and not let them dry out. While it's true that the roots of in-the-ground tomatoes should be encouraged to go deep for water, plants in containers (especially smaller containers) don't have that option; there's simply no where else for the roots to go. If they are drooping and begging for water, water them! In full growth mode and 85 degree temps, you likely will have to water every day, if not morning and evening both once they really get going.

I'm not familiar with all of the varieties you are growing (but I am envious that you are trying so many; how fun!) but especially for the full sized indeterminate bushes, watch out for blossom end rot in the fruit, especially if the soil is allowed to dry out. When I grew in 5 gallon buckets, I found that I couldn't seem to keep the moisture in the soil consistent enough to prevent this in my larger plants. Dwarf plants and smaller determinates, no problem at all ... but my full size indeterminates in the containers developed BER on more than half the fruit (!), all season long, while the exact same variety in the ground next to it had very little. (I planted one of each variety I grew in the container and the ground, as an experiment to see how they'd fare.) Your experience may be totally different, but I just wanted to warn you, in case you have something similar happen.

Good luck!!

Kathy

Thank you for the welcome Kathy. I have been trying to keep them moist. I can't control the irrigation system that the previous owner put in to water the lawns without hiring someone to come in and redesign it. Like I said earlier, I had to stop working (I was a hospice social worker) so now we're on one income. I got the buckets free from the grocery store, bought some cheap tomato cages and read online how to build a cage from 6' bamboo canes. I think I may try some new way to support the tomatoes that doesn't cost a fortune. I've been accumulating resin pots from HD and will switch those out with the buckets. If the indeterminates in the buckets survive the 1st half of the growing season, I will leave them alone and just move them. When things get re-arranged, I may try to rig up some support poles and try the weave method. Been studying and watching YouTube videos by people who seem to know what they're talking about. I think that will work well for the cherry tomatoes. I'll have 7 or 8 variety of those growing. They will go in the new resin pots were the white buckets are now. I'm adding 1 or 2 more steps and will space them better.

I'd like to keep the plums (amish paste, san marzano, black plum and jersey giants in the white buckets and put them around the yard in sunny spots along the fence. I'll put some of the smaller/medium tomatoes there too like green zebras, tigerella, floradade and berkeley tie die. I started digging out shrubby things that are in a nice little 7' x 4 ' bed.right off my screen room that gets tons of sun. I'd like to get some large pots to grow the two types of mortgage liftes, black krim, large barred boar, and pantano romanesco. I was thinking I would get a few smart pots if money allows and maybe try the weave method there too. One thing for certain, I need to have MANY mobile supports. I was thinking of stuffing pressure treated 2"x 4"x 8' into large single chamber cement blocks and filling the hole in with cement. I can use them for all sorts of things like supports or structures to hang various things from. We have a few rare nights down into the 40s.. I have plastic sheets and 150 feet (total) of c-9 and c-7 christmas lights to wind between the plants before securing the cover. A woman farmer who works in the local HD says that method works great to get us through cold snaps. I have other fabrics to cut down on sun and rain, and for keeping the birds away when the fruit ripens. Last summer 1/2 of my take had beak holes and tomatoes that were chomped on. I found some neat 1/4 in mesh that will keep the birds away.

I'm watering daily. They grow best and look the healthiest when they have regular waterings. I made it through one day of withholding water and it made me too anxious. I use the hose directly into the bucket with a gentles spray right after dawn. I hand water with the can when I'm adding fish/kelp - now about once a week.I'm not sure how often I should foliar spray the leaves with the fish eumulsion. For now, I'm just watering with it. Once or twice a week I spray the leaves with 1 teaspoon of epsom salts mixed into a quart of water. Today they got a tablespoon of azomite and two tablespoon of Job's organic Heirloom tomato and Vegetable food.

So far, knock wood (slaps head), no BER. All of the blooms are healthy and productive. My patty pan squash, otoh, is producing a wonderful output of slimy orange flowers with no fruit.Oy. We will have days like this. I'll take a pic of the tomatoes a week later later if I have time, or tomorrow if the grey cloudiness doesn't let up.

Peace out!

Ah. I've written another dissertation.

I grow romas every year here in Arizona. Summer temp starting in July Avg Temp 95 Aug over 100.
1. Started in April by seed after all frost- July plants are about 2'/3' high.
2. I cover the raised beds with about 2/3" of cedar wood mulch. Cheapest I can find, usually $2.00 a bag. (takes two bags for a 4'x8' bed)Keeps in the moisture and bugs don't like cedar.
3. Deep water every 3 days. Throw the hose in the bed and turn it on as low as it will go(dribble) move it around.
4. I have tomatoes thru the summer until Nov.
5. Pull the entire plant/root before freeze in Nov and hang upside down in the garage to finish ripening the green ones.
I have tomatoes in there right now that are red. Growing tomatoes in heat can been done, without a cover. Just mulch a lot. In fact here in Arizona I mulch just about everything.
PS if you talk to any gardener here in AZ, no matter what they grow, they will tell you to mulch, mulch, mulch.

This post was edited by campv on Thu, Nov 21, 13 at 16:01

Good info from campv - many of us have hot weather like your to deal with but what jumps out of you original post is "daily watering". Unless these plants are in a container there is no reason they should require daily watering?

Daily watering equals shallow watering and shallow rooting and so stressed plants that simply can't tolerate heat. Less frequent but very deep watering and the use of heavy mulch works for many of us. Consider that approach.

Dave

I live in Malaysia. Penang to be precise. I have had exuberant and heavy fruiting with tomatoes in my hydroponic system. The plants weren't hybrids, just grown from seeds obtained form supermarket tomatoes. So, I believe the weather in Malaysia is not the limiting factor at all. I have since moved over to organic gardening after developing a phobia for the possibly high nitrite/nitrate content of hydroponic produce.
I have just prepared my tomato bed, digging/loosening the soil about a foot deep and adding topsoil, home-made compost,dolomite,MgSO4,Rock Phosphate,fish meal,soya meal,legume green manure crop. (can anyone suggest anything more?). pH 6.8. It has been sitting there for about 6 weeks now while the tomato plants are growing in their grow-bags. I have been fertilizing them with fish emulsion (Oh! the pong). Incidentally I have sent a sample of the fish emulsion for culture to exclude E.coli and other pathogens, as it smells exactly like sewerage. Hope to transplant this weekend. Planning to plant them deep and at an angle of about 30 degrees as I understand that it will help the entire submerged stem to send out roots giving the plant more vigour. I have seen my hydroponic tomatoes grow tons of roots and the fruit production appeared to be proportional to the root system. Just an experiment. I will only post a picture if I get heavy fruiting not otherwise!

Any pictures of your seedlings?

pH of 6.8 is almost perfect for all garden vegetables, including tomatoes.
Back in USA we, add compost, composted manures(horse, cow..) to condition the garden soil, as well as fertilizes it.

Take it easy with fertilizing. Read more about it. You want to get tomatoes not a lot of lush green top.

good luck !

Last call for joining the tomato seed swap. Deadline for me receiving packages is about Dec 1st.

Gary

I would like to join. I was in another seed swap last year but don't see it listed this year so I'm looking for a swap. Thank You.

Is this a gmo variety?

Here is a link that might be useful: Lionel Standish Records

I just stumbled upon this thread and had to pitch in: one of my sweet 100 cherry tomato plants grew to over 20 feet tall, produced over 1000 tomatoes for a total weight of over 40 pounds. Yes, 40 pounds out of a single vine! Im saving the seeds from that plant for next season!

Full disclosure: this plant grew in full sun, southern exposure, was fed lots of organic chicken compost pellets and was trained vertically up a wire. Zip ties are also your best friend.

It occupied about 2.5 square feet of spaceI love growing things vertically :)

Khaled

The problem with any covering is that when it rains the humidity (dampness) is still causing fruits to split. I am growing all of my cherry varieties under plastic and I even use an inner dripless plastic layer but under high humidity conditions the fruits still get wet.

One thing I didn't mention earlier has to do with your picking manner. If you pick in such a way as to keep the fruit stem attached you will notice less splitting as a result and followup to picking. Picking may take a little longer since the tendency with cherry types is to grab a cluster at a time to speedup the picking process.

Yesterday was probably my last picking for the season and I was surprised at the late season yield as well as flavor of my cherry/grape varieties but all fruits were still wet at noon when I picked. Pouring each gallon picked over a cloth helped to dry the tomatoes and I didn't put more than 3 gallons in any carrier so the fruits would be allowed to dry more quickly. I pick out all visibly cracked fruits immediately and most often eat quite a few as I pick. Cracked fruits are just not marketable but I will continue to grow crack prone varieties, including SunGold, SunSugar, Black Cherry and even newer AAS winner Jasper (highly prone to cracking) b/c individual tastes varry and I have a great market for those varieties.

bmoser (above) has some good ideas. We also grow for market, and it helps to keep the stem on as well to pick a day or two earlier, especially if the forecast calls for rain. They're picked into baskets lined with dry paper towels.
Any 'splitters' that don't get eaten immediately are run through the dehydrator, and those dried ones are quite a treat.
Lee

When you compare prices of the suggested methods you may as well go the extra mile for a few dollars more and setup a greenhouse. The greenhouse arches provide the overhead support at less cost than the cattle panels and they give you many more options. I'm not going to include pictures of a gothic greenhouse frame although I've posted many. Once you have overhead support simple stringlines will work for tomatoes, one per plant, even if your plants grow over 20 ft. tall as many of my cherry varieties do in a season. You just need to wrap enough extra twine on a tomahook so that you can lower the plant stems as they tomatoes grow. Keep in mind that greenhouse arches are galvanized steel and will outlast rusting panels by 50 years. If you decide to cover the arches with plastic you can also extend your growing season by at least a few months and pay for the greenhouse in just a few years.

Just drive through the countryside and see what systems neighboring farmers are using. I know that in the farming regions of PA you'll see greenhouses standing on many roadsides. Surprisingly many who have them are not using the framework as support for the plants within.

I would like to know how to build a green house for the cost of cattle panels. The cattle panels last a long time, before they start rusting. And plastic does not last forever here in ks winds.

I use hoop houses, but very little of it is for tomatoes. Nothing is like a traditionally grown tomato, if you have the growing season. Some folks use hoop houses for tomatoes here. They are the ones with tomatoes left at the end of the market day.

I do agree that you should look at what your neighbors , and what experienced farmers are doing. Just don't be afraid to think for yourself. Most folks use cages here, cuz that what has always been used.

Soil temperature is also a factor. But in early spring (past LF date) soil temp should be much higher than night lows. Average ground temp (few feet below) range 55F to 65F. But when the air temps are in 40s or lower, the soil will cool off. This is especially the case with narrow raised beds, that cool down deeper than flat ground bed. To help this situation plastic covers can be useful for a while.

We have also tried circulating warm water through tubing in the soil. A 4x8 solar panel will easily heat a 10x20 foot bed. Some of our earliest tomatoes go out in those areas. Landscape cloth really raises the soil temperature as well.
Here is one of our fields the winter before last. The tomato plants are underneath the cones.
Lee

Ohio, I define what many call DTM's, as follows:

Early, 55 to 65 days
Midseason 65 to 80 days
Late season , more than 80 days,

There are those seasons when my late seasonones have ripened before the midseason ones and the mid season ones before the early ones, that's all about the variables I mentioned above.

So no one should pay attention to a DTM of say 75 days, for instance, b/c that's kind of ridiculous IMO.

I list ML in my book and call it late midseason, and that's the Radiator Charlie one.

I just looked in one of my SSE YEarbooks and for both Estler and Radiator Charlie, the DTM's given are from 80 to 85 days and that depends on where a person gardens, in a geograpic sense and what specific year it was grown, which is not given since many SSE listers keep listing the same as long as they have viable seeds to fill requests with.

Carolyn

Thanks again Carolyn and Ohiofem.

Ohiofem ... I do care for taste too. What I meant was the difference between those to MLs. I am not too picky on taste. I just like good old tomato-ee taste, juicy, bit tangy.

Sorry if you thought I was discriminating against market growers. What I meant was that nothing is lost by someone trying a new method on a few plants.

I know market growers make more money by extending the season, but they need to know what they are doing. As you described there are many details to be considered.

In my experience, if shortly after plant out you get temperatures in 70(day) 50(night) range or higher, seedling size is not going to make much difference. Say, one seeding is 10 weeks old the other is 5 week old((exact same variety)) the difference in having ripe fruit is NOT going to be 5 weeks, but probably about 2 weeks. A lot of us get satisfaction from that 2 weeks difference too.

I know this is an OLD thread, but:
I'm having the same problem, late ripening. I got my FIRST tomatoes in LATE August, and I STILL have more than 1/2 the fruit on the vine, with about 4 just about ripe right now, NOVEMBER 10th, with most of the ripe fruit I got in October. Any clues?

DTM (Days to Maturity) is a pretty good yard stick. Though not an exact number. Then comes the plant out date, seedling size.
So if you plant a tomato with a DTM of 90 and get a lot of bad weather , you might end up having a ripe tomato after 100 or more days. So if you plant in May 25, you will have to wait til the end of August and maybe in September. No surprise there.

About BER and egg shell:
It amazes me when I read that some people add egg shell to remedy BER. Egg shell will take months if not years to break down and release calcium. To me thinking that adding egg shells can cure BER is mythical. Calcium deficiency and BER is just a theory not substantiated.

OK. FORGET THE LAST SEASON. What are you plans for 2014? Think about DTM, extending you season , do early varieties. ( I am just reminding myself LOL).
I have already decided to scratch out two: Brandywine and Black Krim. Add Mortgage Lifter and Cherokee Purple plus few determinats and early varieties.