16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Ohio, I define what many call DTM's, as follows:
Early, 55 to 65 days
Midseason 65 to 80 days
Late season , more than 80 days,
There are those seasons when my late seasonones have ripened before the midseason ones and the mid season ones before the early ones, that's all about the variables I mentioned above.
So no one should pay attention to a DTM of say 75 days, for instance, b/c that's kind of ridiculous IMO.
I list ML in my book and call it late midseason, and that's the Radiator Charlie one.
I just looked in one of my SSE YEarbooks and for both Estler and Radiator Charlie, the DTM's given are from 80 to 85 days and that depends on where a person gardens, in a geograpic sense and what specific year it was grown, which is not given since many SSE listers keep listing the same as long as they have viable seeds to fill requests with.
Carolyn
Sorry if you thought I was discriminating against market growers. What I meant was that nothing is lost by someone trying a new method on a few plants.
I know market growers make more money by extending the season, but they need to know what they are doing. As you described there are many details to be considered.
In my experience, if shortly after plant out you get temperatures in 70(day) 50(night) range or higher, seedling size is not going to make much difference. Say, one seeding is 10 weeks old the other is 5 week old((exact same variety)) the difference in having ripe fruit is NOT going to be 5 weeks, but probably about 2 weeks. A lot of us get satisfaction from that 2 weeks difference too.
Can you give them partial shade? What color are the pots? Do you have any mulch on the top of the soil? You want to do everything you can to keep them as cool as possible. When it gets hot here tomatoes don't set fruit. Some varieties will produce better in heat than others.
Perhaps your plants have more leaves and are bigger now and the leaves are losing moisture faster than the roots can take it in. I am not a botanist so that may not be what happens. I know many plants wilt in the hot parts of the day even though they don't need water and will recover when it cools off in the evening.
I am not familiar with your climate. Tomato growers in hot climates here try to grow tomatoes early in spring and get their production before the worst heat of the summer. People in different climates have to adjust in many ways to get a crop at the best possible time. Perhaps your university has information about the best varieties and best times there.
I know this is an OLD thread, but:
I'm having the same problem, late ripening. I got my FIRST tomatoes in LATE August, and I STILL have more than 1/2 the fruit on the vine, with about 4 just about ripe right now, NOVEMBER 10th, with most of the ripe fruit I got in October. Any clues?
DTM (Days to Maturity) is a pretty good yard stick. Though not an exact number. Then comes the plant out date, seedling size.
So if you plant a tomato with a DTM of 90 and get a lot of bad weather , you might end up having a ripe tomato after 100 or more days. So if you plant in May 25, you will have to wait til the end of August and maybe in September. No surprise there.
About BER and egg shell:
It amazes me when I read that some people add egg shell to remedy BER. Egg shell will take months if not years to break down and release calcium. To me thinking that adding egg shells can cure BER is mythical. Calcium deficiency and BER is just a theory not substantiated.
OK. FORGET THE LAST SEASON. What are you plans for 2014? Think about DTM, extending you season , do early varieties. ( I am just reminding myself LOL).
I have already decided to scratch out two: Brandywine and Black Krim. Add Mortgage Lifter and Cherokee Purple plus few determinats and early varieties.
Thank you! those are good questions and it is a bit of experiment for me. Weather is still quite nice, we have occasional light frost in the mornings but days and most nights are good. I think we will still have 4 weeks of growing easily before growth stops and cold sets in. I will have to figure out exactly how village does its tilling as they are doing it with big machine, I would assume they do not remove èweedsè and just plow them under but have to check
Very good kOticc... good selection there.
I have not done much container gardening. But I intend to do some, mostly smaller pepper plants. That is why I have been a regular over "Container Gardening" forum, trying to educate myself.
Most difficult part of container gardening is managing WATER and FERTILIZER. This is especially true with some of the potting mixes discussed in that forum. (Like 5. 1. 1). Those mixes are unknown territories to me. They all seem to be TOO WELL drained and thus not having storage capability for water and the nutrients. But I will experiment with them the next season.
Container size is yet another issue. But I think for annual plants like matoes, pepps, it is not crucial if they get root bound by the end of season. Container size becomes a player for perennial plants.
lindalana, you make it sound so easy lol.
I will be using a mix based on Al's 5-1-1 mix. I haven't figured out what will work best but I'd rather start will a very well draining mix and go from there.
I am trying to do all this organically, and the consensus seems to be using larger containers will help keep temp and moisture more consistent (and therefore more likely to keep those soil critters more consistent). I already have that thread going so I won't go more into that.
I have done germinating/ starting from seed indoor a couple of times.
heat mat is not an absolute MUST HAVE. And it is needed just for germinating. From there on tomato seedlings will need light, in the right amount.
Also, tomato seedlings are fairly fast growing(as compared to peppers). So, depending on your indoor resource , you have to start it NOT too early. 6 to 8 weeks before plant out time is mostly recommended.
As far as your main question, I don't think there is much difference. All mato seedlings, IMO, need fair amount of light.
Hi. I found this impressively broad website looking for an answer to, essentially, your question, though several months have passed since your May post..it's early November 2013.
I live on the central coast, CA. I also live near Safeway, go daily. I love tomatoes, eat them every day. I sure wish they tasted like they used to, I'm always filled with hope.
Recently some very large gorgeous tomatoes appeared in Safeway produce department among the regulars. Large, round, great genuine color, well-defined round ridges on top like a painting done of them 100 years ago. I bought two.
They were tasty. A real taste, a good tomato. I repeated that three days running now. And without fail they ALL HAVE WOODEN CORES!
It's not just a pluck-offable top green stem. It's wood pulp and extends inside the tomato a bit, enough so you find it by surprise and have to spit it out as if you'd found a pit.
The tomatoes have stickers which read KALIROY (Mexico) with a bar code. I looked up the brand.
KALIROY (Mexican company headed by Eduardo De La Vega) has offices in Nogales, Arizona. They just signed a partnership with PACIFIC TOMATO GROWERS LTD in Palmetto, Florida. They launched in October. They grow open field vine-ripe, greenhouse, vine-ripe Romas, and vine-ripe grape. Their fields and greenhouses are in Guadalajara and Culican, Mexico.
I don't know about the other varieties but these big round beauties ALL HAVE WOODEN CORES!!
Both the Florida and Mexican companies are big enterprises around a long time. I have no idea about either of them or why the wooden cores are popping up in their tomatoes and nobody on the internet seems to have addressed this but you.
So there it is. If you find out more, I hope you'll post it. And maybe writing to the company would provide info.
I wondered if it was because of some structure they were grown on, or stretched up something, or a hybrid, or forced for production that alters the stem. No idea.
Here is a link that might be useful: The Hawks Perch - Expressionist Art
"Damping Off" normally happens with seedlings. I'm thinking Linda had another affliction on her plants. Linda, you could have indeed had something nibble on your plant opening a wound to allow bugs, virus or bacteria to enter.
In the end, anything can go wrong, but generally everything goes right. Sometimes they just need a little help.
Gail
There are three genera and species of fungi that can cause damping off, which is shown in the picture and without one of them being in the grow medium no damping off can occur.
I have never used sterile seed starting mix, no need to if you use a good one. In past times those that have Canadian Spaghnum moss have been a problem. And never but never use potting soil or real dirt, only artificial seed starting mix.
And not just seedlings can be affected, but plants up to 5 inches tall, which look fine until then. There's a great pictures in my tomato pathology book showing that.
Cinnamon does not work to prevent fungal growth although it's suggested by many. Same for sulfur.
Linda, what you describe on mature plants could be one of several diseases.
Carolyn
I also have the impression that BEEFSTEAK refers to the size of tomato, it is slicer, one slice is big enough for a burger.
Also most cherry tomatoes are famous for their sweetness, as they are exclusively eaten fresh and in salads. But anyway, I personally like a bit "Tomatoey" taste more than just sweet. Now it seems that there are choices. Good to know.
I also wonder why folks just don't take better care of the plants they start early.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
BECAUSE:
The two options (starting from seed early, indoor and providing protection for HUGE plants at the end of season) are not the same. I can easily manage to grow 20 tomato or pepper seedlings in my living room for 3 months. But I cannot accommodate even a single 6- 8 foot plant inside. The only option remaining is to have a greenhouse. Your high tunnel is just an attempt to create a greenhouse BUT a much less inefficient one.
That is why I BELIEVE trying to extend the season at the fron end is less costly and more convenient. ( for the reasons I mentioned above)
Seysonn, if huge plants are a problem for you then you must be content with the production limitations of smaller plants. I'll admit that I have "Maxed-out" on the tomahook stringline reserve on most cherry & grape varieties translating to plants that have grown well over 20 feet over the season and I agree that a greenhouse is the way to achieve more than season extension since the framework also serves as plant support.
I have grown tomatoes in the ground under high tunnels for more than 10 years now and I have made some changes early in the process that have made a large impact on success: Exhaust fans, circulation fans,a wood stove and lights. I could never understand why most people take multiple steps to improve their personal comfort yet draw an absolute line on where they cease to care for their plants. For the first and last months of the season the roll-up sides of my tunnels remain locked down and thermostatatically controlled exhaust fans keep inside temps in control. Circulation fans are a huge benefit in insuring uniform air temps, lowering fungal diseases and even in polination- they're cheap and pay for themselves many times over. As far as wood stoves go, it's just the cheapest heat source for most people when all factors are considered.
Starting plants mid-season means that for that ground surface area you have ZERO production from the time of transplant until harvest begins, usually 8-10 weeks. For me that translates to $thousands. Just do the math.
Soil temperature is also a factor. But in early spring (past LF date) soil temp should be much higher than night lows. Average ground temp (few feet below) range 55F to 65F. But when the air temps are in 40s or lower, the soil will cool off. This is especially the case with narrow raised beds, that cool down deeper than flat ground bed. To help this situation plastic covers can be useful for a while.
We have also tried circulating warm water through tubing in the soil. A 4x8 solar panel will easily heat a 10x20 foot bed. Some of our earliest tomatoes go out in those areas. Landscape cloth really raises the soil temperature as well.
Here is one of our fields the winter before last. The tomato plants are underneath the cones.
Lee