16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

Gray mold or botrytis is another disease that survives on plant debris over winter and can also be seedborne
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Thanks
In that case, a question comes up: IS THE BACTERIA SOIL BORNE OR AIR BORNE ?
If it is soil borne how did it get into my beds. It was the first year that I built and used them with purchased soil/compost. BUT then I bought all the seedlings.

Pick them a little on the green side and dip them in a solution of bleach and water to kill any nasties on the skin. Let them dry and then box them up. They'll keep then.

I know tha basics of that kind of grafting.
You have the two seedlings side by side.
Make small cuts (partial removal of stems. Then wrap them together until they kind of weld together.
Then cut off the top of one(potato) and the stem of the other one(Tomato). Now you have top of tomato and root of potato.
But it is easier to be said than done, I think.

Potato berry can produce seeds(like tomato seeds) If you plant them you will get potato plant.

Nevr tried the actually grafting, but the pomato was a standard advertisement in the Sunday supplements (newspapers) in the 60's and 70's. The one I remember that named the varieties used the Subarctic tomato grafted onto a Red Norland potato

If it weren't so late, Linnies Oxheart would be a new go to variety for me. In a really bad year, when most others gave few, and smaller than usual fruits, this one is still blushing a 1lb+ tomato almost daily, perfectly formed and beautiful. I can't wait to try it in a good year.

Opalka was the most productive, followed by Black Cherry.

Neither had exceptional flavor. Not bad, understand, just average.

Best flavored were Marianna's Peace and Stump of the World; unfortunately these weren't terribly productive.

Tomatoes accumulate sucrose which is produced in the leaves via a complex series of steps starting with water and carbon dioxide from the air. Vacuolar invertase breaks the sucrose down into glucose and fructose for further metabolism. Variations in the gene that produces vacuolar invertase and a few others associated with it result in sucrose accumulation in the fruit. LA4104 from TGRC has a variant of this gene that causes more sucrose to accumulate in the fruit.

If you want to have sweet flavor, you have to go back to plant health to ensure the leaves have everything needed to produce sugar in the first place. Once it is produced, it must be readily transported to the fruit. Once in the fruit, it has to be stored instead of being metabilized for fruit growth. That means a LOT of genes are involved in the processes and therefore there is a LOT of room for genetic selection.

With that said, get some Crnkovic Yugoslavian seed and see what you think.

Yes, lots of steps and enzymes involved, but none of that can happen unless photosynthesis produces the energy compounds ATP and GTP which are necessary to faciliate those reactions and end products.

So IMO conditions that lead to the most efficient photosythesis are the most important.

I still say that taste is in the mouth of the one tasting fruits and taste is perceptual and personal and depends on many other variables.

I can taste variety A and think it's sweet but another person can taste it and say it's a spitter.

BRIX levels measure soluble sugars, all of them,not just sucrose.

Crnkovic Yugoslavian? Yes, a variety I introduced by first listing it in the SSE YEarbook. From a fellow faculty member Yasha Crnkovic. And I've grown it a lot. Is it the sweetest variety I've ever tasted? I don't think so but it's a great variety IMO as well.

Carolyn

I grew all three this year. I was most impressed with Supersonic. It was larger than Ramapo and Jet Star. There was very little cracking. It was the most productive of the three. And the flavor was very good. I did not find the flavor of Ramapo or Jet Star to be any better than Supersonic. Supersonic will be my main tomato next year. Will also have an Early Girl and a Besser. Besser produced hundreds of golf-ball size fruits, there was no cracking, and the flavor was very good. It is a beautiful tomato on a veggie platter. It does need a lot of room - a very vigorous plant.

I never grew Jetstar or Supersonic but I grew the Ramapo and 4th of July this year. But I will try the Supersonic and Jetstar + the Morton next year.

As far as the Ramapo F1, I estimate that I had about 65+ per each plant so far out of 5 plants along with 1 4th of July plant that produced around the same. There are still 45+ tomatoes in total approching maturity that have begun about a month ago to sprout.

Last year I grew the Early Goliath but was brand new and 4 plants only produced about 40 maters but I think that was my bad since I did not fertilize ect and being new and did not water properly.

The photo below shows the head on shot of theRamapos in its current stage (the fourth of July is 2nd on the right but it is hard to see) and the last photo is one of the Ramapos with a Kellog Yellow Beefsteake in the backround that was pretty good too but was planted late in the season (around late June).

I guess what I am trying to say is that the Ramapo does not give up in producing for me yet even with 45F nights and mid 60s, however we have a frost approaching next week so it will come to an end,

- Mr Beno

This post was edited by thebutcher on Sun, Oct 20, 13 at 17:08

I think Earl of Edgecombe is a very cute plant but I didn't grow it in a pot. It is a smaller tomato with orange fruit.

And I would suggest that you take a look at some Dwarf varieties developed in the past few years with colors and sizes not seen before.

The link below is from Tania's website.

If you click on the various varieties you can see pictures and comments and seed sources for each one if you click on Seed Availability.

They would be perfect for a patio and indeed one of the incentives behind starting this project was to make available varieties for container growing.

Hope that helps,

Carolyn, and nothing wrong with Earl of Edgecombe,which I introduced by first listing it in the SSE YEarbookin 1997, I love that variety, I just think the Dwarfs might be more interesting for a patio.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Earl_of_Edgecombe

Here is a link that might be useful: New Dwarf Varieties

It is usually referred to as "zippering" and is a physiological response related to pronounced fluctuations in air temps at pollination time and during early fruit development. Most of the time zippering of fruit runs vertically but it turns up like this on paste types sometimes because of the long shape of the fruit.

Not really much you can do to prevent it but most of the fruit is still edible.

Dave

This post was edited by digdirt on Wed, Oct 16, 13 at 11:24

Thanks, Dave!

Thanks. I pulled them up today and planted spinach, kale, and garlic. Do you compost your vines or put them in the trash?

I never compost my tomato plants (or any solanaceous plants) because I am worried about carrying over diseases from year to year, but I may be a little overcautious. If you are very good about building a compost pile that heats up enough so it destroys seeds and most diseases, and you are sure your plants didn't have any diseases that can overwinter, it's probably safe.

There was another thread on this subject a few days ago, and many experienced growers do compost their vines. See: Composting tomato plants.

Back in the 20's and 30's many of the basic traits of tomatoes was studied and here's a favorite link of mine having to do with root structures.

Scroll down until you come to TOMATO.

I think one of the most imporrtant concepts is that if you direct seed tomatoes, as some commercial farmers in warm weather areas do, same for some home growers, you get a tap root structure.

But if you sow seeds and transplant the seedlings just once you get the desired fibrous root structure shown in the pictures, which is far superior b'c the additional rootlets can take up more water and nutrients than can a taproot structure.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Root Structure

I have not pulled mine out yet but couple years back I gave someone plants that I have planted about 4 weeks earlier so I had to dig it up middle June I thought it would be easy deal... oh my... that thing was huge!

My Sweet 100's went nuts.

If I plant early seedlings and weather still cold they just going to sit and wait... my experience using WOW is best if you have chance or floating row covers, temporary cold frame etc. Just planting out early does nothing to improve timing, although there are some varieties that will have better fruit set during cool weather.
Chicago weather can have cool summer or hot summer so this is one reason why I plant many different varieties, there will be something that works best for whatever weather we are going to have.

While the jury is still out. Why not try a foliar spray with a product that contains both chelated calcium and chelated magnesium. Organic of course! A foliar spray will not change your soils PH or your plants genetics but I have used it and it did work.
Tim

Blossom end rot has many causes. But the good news is that it ususally goes away as the plants mature and can better handle the many stresses that can induce it. It used to be thought that BER was due to a lack of calcium but research has shown that plants with BER fruits have plenty of calcium.

Here's a post I wrote about BER and perhaps it will help explain some of the issues:

Blossom End Rot (BER) is one of the most common tomato problems seen in the early part of the season. It is a physiological condition, not a disease caused by a fungus or a bacterium or a virus. Therefore it cannot be treated.

And as I'll explain below, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to
prevent. BER has nothing to do with the blossoms, it refers to the fact that at the end of the tomato opposite the place where the tomato is attached to the stem, called the stem end, is the bottom of the tomato, which is called the blossom end. You often can see remnants of the blossom attached to that end as the tomato forms. At the blossom end one sees a flattened area that looks
leathery and initially brown and then black, as the fruit rots.

BER is said to occur when there is uneven watering, drought, heavy rainfall, excessive nitrogen fertilization, rapid plant growth or root pruning during cultivation, high winds and rapid temperature changes. So lots of conditions have been associated with BER. But the rapid plant growth and nitrogen fertilization are both common to conditions seen early in the season, and indeed, that is when most BER occurs. Then it usually just goes away.

BER occurs because under the conditions just stated, Ca++ moves from the fruit into the vasculature (stems) of the plant. Or, some feel that Ca++ never reaches the fruits because under stress demand for Ca++ exceeds supply.This lowered amount of Ca++ is what causes BER. Excessive rates of transpiration (kind of like sweating in humans) also is involved in Ca++ displacement. Thus, the plant as a whole is NOT Ca++ deficient, the Ca++ has just been displaced.

Many books and magazine articles tell you that by adding Ca++ in the form of lime or eggshells, for instance, that you can prevent BER. That does NOT appear to be true. It was several years ago that I found out that University field trial experiments have so far failed to show that BER can be prevented by addition
of Ca++. I recently e-mailed my friend at Cornell who told me all this two years ago, to again confirm that it was still true, and will update you, if necessary. Peppers and many cole crops are also susceptible to BER and there's quite a bit of literature on BER and Ca++ for those crops also. The results are the same; addition of Ca++ does not prevent BER.

Some data strongly suggests that foliar spraying with Ca++ is of no use because not enough gets to the fruits to do any good. And it's known that the sprays for fruits that are sold are usless. No molecules can get across the fruit epidermis except when the fruits are still small and green. If they did, just what do you think would happen to the fruits when it rained.LOL

Not all varieties of tomatoes get BER. Some never do, others are horrible. That's not surprising since certainly there are slight physiological differences between varieties. After all, almost all garden tomatoes, with the exception of the currant tomatoes are in the same genus and species, Solanum lycopersicum. And we humans are all in the same species, Homo sapiens, var. sapiens...and look how different some of our physiologies are.
Whoa!

So, BER is a physiological condition, cannot be cured, and current
literature data suggests it cannot be prevented. It occurs on some, but not all varieties of tomatoes, is usually seen early in the season and then stops, for most folks. It would be nice to say that you could even out your watering, prevent droughts and heavy rainfalls, ensure even and not rapid growth of plants and not disturb the roots by shallow cultivating. But on a practical basis, I think we all know that's almost impossible. So, BER has never bothered me, I just ignore it, and it goes away with time.

Adding Ca++ to soils that are Ca++ deficient makes sense, but few soils are. And if soils are acidic, Ca++ is not taken up well but addition of Epsom Salts to the soil can aid in Ca++ uptake in such acidic soils.

Many folks add Ca++ and then see that BER disappears. What they fail to realize is that BER is going to go away anyway, as the season progresses. And that's because as the plants get larger they are better able to handle the many stresses that can induce it. So one cannot correlate addition of Ca++ to disappearance of BER. Universities have done so many stidies on this already
because BER is a billion dollar problem in the commercial veggie industry.

Of all the stresses that can induce BER the two that are most under control of the home gardener are fertilization and water delivery.

That is, too much fertilizer causes plants to grow too rapidly and is perhaps one of the major causes of BER developing. Too rich soils do the same thing. Plant growth simply outstrips the ability of Ca++ to get to the fruits.

Mulching to help ensure even delivery of water also can be done and is also one of the two major causes, IMHO, of BER.

BER appears usually on half ripe fruits but also can appear on grass green ones.Lack of Ca++ only occurs at the blossom end of the fruit and it causes tissue destruction which leads to that papery greyish/blackish lesion appearing.Now sometimes that lesion opens up and fungi and bacteria enter and that causes the rotting and also the appearance of fungal growth on and in the lesion.

Just pick off any BER fruits that appear and soon the next fruits to ripen will BERless.

Many books, magazine articles and websites still say to add Ca++ as lime, eggshells, etc, and seem not to be aware of all the research that has been done in the last 20 years. But many books, magazine articles, are now sharing this newer information about addition of Ca++ not being able to either prevent or cure BER except in rare situations of low Ca++ soils or acidic soils.

I suppose it will take another generation for the right information to be present everywhere. And from my own experience i can tell you that there will be folks who will get madder than can be when they read this kind of info becasue they simply believe otherwise. So be it. LOL Addition of modest amounts of Ca++ aren' t harmful, but I feel strongly that folks should know what's going on with past and current rsearch re BER and Ca++.

Hope the above helps.

Carolyn

BP... thanks! I will check in a couple of months as folks start listing what they will have for sale for next year and if I can't find any I will surely let you know. I hope for goodness sake that Joyce's have a back-up plan!!!

Seysonn - I've never grown any of the other varieties so I can't compare them for you. All I can vouch for is that Estler's is the original and all the others are copies! (You can do a search and it will bring up several previous discussions about it.)

Edie

Actually I thought someone at Joyces told me that Mrs Estler had been in and that she would be cutting back rather than stopping production. Is Mrs Estler still going strong? Or maybe some other relative? The plants were about a buck fifty in 4" sq pots....very nice. They in turn sell plants to a couple of other vendors, Southern States being one.

Pale Perfect Purple is like Eva Purple Ball and is very productive. I think Tania needs a better picture of it. In my garden it is more perfect than most tomatoes although I don't mind the irregular big beefsteaks. Wes is good for salsa because it is meaty but you want a medium sized tomato. Black and Brown Boar is a small black tomato - just the size to slice to put on a cracker.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pale Perfect Purple

pale perfect purple. Mine look more pink than this. It is not called early but probably early midseason. I copied this picture from the web. It is a pretty pink tomato with potato leaves.