16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

I think Earl of Edgecombe is a very cute plant but I didn't grow it in a pot. It is a smaller tomato with orange fruit.

And I would suggest that you take a look at some Dwarf varieties developed in the past few years with colors and sizes not seen before.

The link below is from Tania's website.

If you click on the various varieties you can see pictures and comments and seed sources for each one if you click on Seed Availability.

They would be perfect for a patio and indeed one of the incentives behind starting this project was to make available varieties for container growing.

Hope that helps,

Carolyn, and nothing wrong with Earl of Edgecombe,which I introduced by first listing it in the SSE YEarbookin 1997, I love that variety, I just think the Dwarfs might be more interesting for a patio.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Earl_of_Edgecombe

Here is a link that might be useful: New Dwarf Varieties

It is usually referred to as "zippering" and is a physiological response related to pronounced fluctuations in air temps at pollination time and during early fruit development. Most of the time zippering of fruit runs vertically but it turns up like this on paste types sometimes because of the long shape of the fruit.

Not really much you can do to prevent it but most of the fruit is still edible.

Dave

This post was edited by digdirt on Wed, Oct 16, 13 at 11:24

Thanks, Dave!

Thanks. I pulled them up today and planted spinach, kale, and garlic. Do you compost your vines or put them in the trash?

I never compost my tomato plants (or any solanaceous plants) because I am worried about carrying over diseases from year to year, but I may be a little overcautious. If you are very good about building a compost pile that heats up enough so it destroys seeds and most diseases, and you are sure your plants didn't have any diseases that can overwinter, it's probably safe.

There was another thread on this subject a few days ago, and many experienced growers do compost their vines. See: Composting tomato plants.

Back in the 20's and 30's many of the basic traits of tomatoes was studied and here's a favorite link of mine having to do with root structures.

Scroll down until you come to TOMATO.

I think one of the most imporrtant concepts is that if you direct seed tomatoes, as some commercial farmers in warm weather areas do, same for some home growers, you get a tap root structure.

But if you sow seeds and transplant the seedlings just once you get the desired fibrous root structure shown in the pictures, which is far superior b'c the additional rootlets can take up more water and nutrients than can a taproot structure.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Root Structure

I have not pulled mine out yet but couple years back I gave someone plants that I have planted about 4 weeks earlier so I had to dig it up middle June I thought it would be easy deal... oh my... that thing was huge!

My Sweet 100's went nuts.

If I plant early seedlings and weather still cold they just going to sit and wait... my experience using WOW is best if you have chance or floating row covers, temporary cold frame etc. Just planting out early does nothing to improve timing, although there are some varieties that will have better fruit set during cool weather.
Chicago weather can have cool summer or hot summer so this is one reason why I plant many different varieties, there will be something that works best for whatever weather we are going to have.

While the jury is still out. Why not try a foliar spray with a product that contains both chelated calcium and chelated magnesium. Organic of course! A foliar spray will not change your soils PH or your plants genetics but I have used it and it did work.
Tim

Blossom end rot has many causes. But the good news is that it ususally goes away as the plants mature and can better handle the many stresses that can induce it. It used to be thought that BER was due to a lack of calcium but research has shown that plants with BER fruits have plenty of calcium.

Here's a post I wrote about BER and perhaps it will help explain some of the issues:

Blossom End Rot (BER) is one of the most common tomato problems seen in the early part of the season. It is a physiological condition, not a disease caused by a fungus or a bacterium or a virus. Therefore it cannot be treated.

And as I'll explain below, it is very difficult, if not impossible, to
prevent. BER has nothing to do with the blossoms, it refers to the fact that at the end of the tomato opposite the place where the tomato is attached to the stem, called the stem end, is the bottom of the tomato, which is called the blossom end. You often can see remnants of the blossom attached to that end as the tomato forms. At the blossom end one sees a flattened area that looks
leathery and initially brown and then black, as the fruit rots.

BER is said to occur when there is uneven watering, drought, heavy rainfall, excessive nitrogen fertilization, rapid plant growth or root pruning during cultivation, high winds and rapid temperature changes. So lots of conditions have been associated with BER. But the rapid plant growth and nitrogen fertilization are both common to conditions seen early in the season, and indeed, that is when most BER occurs. Then it usually just goes away.

BER occurs because under the conditions just stated, Ca++ moves from the fruit into the vasculature (stems) of the plant. Or, some feel that Ca++ never reaches the fruits because under stress demand for Ca++ exceeds supply.This lowered amount of Ca++ is what causes BER. Excessive rates of transpiration (kind of like sweating in humans) also is involved in Ca++ displacement. Thus, the plant as a whole is NOT Ca++ deficient, the Ca++ has just been displaced.

Many books and magazine articles tell you that by adding Ca++ in the form of lime or eggshells, for instance, that you can prevent BER. That does NOT appear to be true. It was several years ago that I found out that University field trial experiments have so far failed to show that BER can be prevented by addition
of Ca++. I recently e-mailed my friend at Cornell who told me all this two years ago, to again confirm that it was still true, and will update you, if necessary. Peppers and many cole crops are also susceptible to BER and there's quite a bit of literature on BER and Ca++ for those crops also. The results are the same; addition of Ca++ does not prevent BER.

Some data strongly suggests that foliar spraying with Ca++ is of no use because not enough gets to the fruits to do any good. And it's known that the sprays for fruits that are sold are usless. No molecules can get across the fruit epidermis except when the fruits are still small and green. If they did, just what do you think would happen to the fruits when it rained.LOL

Not all varieties of tomatoes get BER. Some never do, others are horrible. That's not surprising since certainly there are slight physiological differences between varieties. After all, almost all garden tomatoes, with the exception of the currant tomatoes are in the same genus and species, Solanum lycopersicum. And we humans are all in the same species, Homo sapiens, var. sapiens...and look how different some of our physiologies are.
Whoa!

So, BER is a physiological condition, cannot be cured, and current
literature data suggests it cannot be prevented. It occurs on some, but not all varieties of tomatoes, is usually seen early in the season and then stops, for most folks. It would be nice to say that you could even out your watering, prevent droughts and heavy rainfalls, ensure even and not rapid growth of plants and not disturb the roots by shallow cultivating. But on a practical basis, I think we all know that's almost impossible. So, BER has never bothered me, I just ignore it, and it goes away with time.

Adding Ca++ to soils that are Ca++ deficient makes sense, but few soils are. And if soils are acidic, Ca++ is not taken up well but addition of Epsom Salts to the soil can aid in Ca++ uptake in such acidic soils.

Many folks add Ca++ and then see that BER disappears. What they fail to realize is that BER is going to go away anyway, as the season progresses. And that's because as the plants get larger they are better able to handle the many stresses that can induce it. So one cannot correlate addition of Ca++ to disappearance of BER. Universities have done so many stidies on this already
because BER is a billion dollar problem in the commercial veggie industry.

Of all the stresses that can induce BER the two that are most under control of the home gardener are fertilization and water delivery.

That is, too much fertilizer causes plants to grow too rapidly and is perhaps one of the major causes of BER developing. Too rich soils do the same thing. Plant growth simply outstrips the ability of Ca++ to get to the fruits.

Mulching to help ensure even delivery of water also can be done and is also one of the two major causes, IMHO, of BER.

BER appears usually on half ripe fruits but also can appear on grass green ones.Lack of Ca++ only occurs at the blossom end of the fruit and it causes tissue destruction which leads to that papery greyish/blackish lesion appearing.Now sometimes that lesion opens up and fungi and bacteria enter and that causes the rotting and also the appearance of fungal growth on and in the lesion.

Just pick off any BER fruits that appear and soon the next fruits to ripen will BERless.

Many books, magazine articles and websites still say to add Ca++ as lime, eggshells, etc, and seem not to be aware of all the research that has been done in the last 20 years. But many books, magazine articles, are now sharing this newer information about addition of Ca++ not being able to either prevent or cure BER except in rare situations of low Ca++ soils or acidic soils.

I suppose it will take another generation for the right information to be present everywhere. And from my own experience i can tell you that there will be folks who will get madder than can be when they read this kind of info becasue they simply believe otherwise. So be it. LOL Addition of modest amounts of Ca++ aren' t harmful, but I feel strongly that folks should know what's going on with past and current rsearch re BER and Ca++.

Hope the above helps.

Carolyn

BP... thanks! I will check in a couple of months as folks start listing what they will have for sale for next year and if I can't find any I will surely let you know. I hope for goodness sake that Joyce's have a back-up plan!!!

Seysonn - I've never grown any of the other varieties so I can't compare them for you. All I can vouch for is that Estler's is the original and all the others are copies! (You can do a search and it will bring up several previous discussions about it.)

Edie

Actually I thought someone at Joyces told me that Mrs Estler had been in and that she would be cutting back rather than stopping production. Is Mrs Estler still going strong? Or maybe some other relative? The plants were about a buck fifty in 4" sq pots....very nice. They in turn sell plants to a couple of other vendors, Southern States being one.

Pale Perfect Purple is like Eva Purple Ball and is very productive. I think Tania needs a better picture of it. In my garden it is more perfect than most tomatoes although I don't mind the irregular big beefsteaks. Wes is good for salsa because it is meaty but you want a medium sized tomato. Black and Brown Boar is a small black tomato - just the size to slice to put on a cracker.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pale Perfect Purple

pale perfect purple. Mine look more pink than this. It is not called early but probably early midseason. I copied this picture from the web. It is a pretty pink tomato with potato leaves.

JoeOrganic,

I love cheap too, but I also know value. Value in the fact that better seedling growth in the early stages can make a big difference. The 2 foot - 4 lamp fixture I use is ideal, and I've seen the best small plants take off and become my best in terms of yield, and so I would recommend something, or exactly like in the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: ebay seller 99% positive results

In agreement with simmran ,

It is all about time and your efforts that both are so much more valuable than 30, 40 bucks. By starting from seeds we aim to extend our season and beat the mother nature at her own game.
Of course, another alternative is to buy established seedlings when the time comes to plant. But it would be even more costly AND you may not be able to find a variety that you are interested in. That is exactly the reason I want to start from seed. I will also implement some purchases of the ordinary varieties.

I think Tania or someone from a cold area said that tomatoes are grown in greenhouses in cold areas. So a tomato from British Columbia, for example, may not be really adapted to a cool area. I look at the posts of people from Texas to get ideas for tomatoes that can take the heat, but I know they start their tomatoes early and try to get them producing before the heat gets too bad. To me it seems it would be faster to grow many different tomatoes and then come up with a list of those that like your conditions. There was another fellow on here I think he was from zone 4. He was trying to develop a tomato for his conditions. He got into a little trouble here for calling paste tomatoes flawed and rejects, but they were rejects for his particular climate. He sounded like he was trying to do what you are doing. The description for Barlow Japanese says the original tomato was weak and this man selected the strongest plants and developed that variety. Who knows it is was mutations or crosses that caused the improvement.

Thank you for sharing information!
my thoughts... life of tree or animal is far longer than annual tomato, and for warmer climate they can even get spring and fall gathering so selection over time by growing conditions etc happens much faster for tomatoes, while it is not done in a year or two, if it takes only 6 years to stabilize new variety why not think that within same genotype selection by phenotype for most vigorous, best productive, tastiest etc does not happen at same rate?
BTW regarding cold tolerance I.B. Michurin who was crossing cold tolerant varieties with distant ¨tender¨ varieties noted that providing such crosses with rich humucy soil was detrimental to crosses and decreased their cold tolerance. I think he even had to move his entire operation to different area with more harsh conditions to get his crosses to retain cold tolerant qualities...
It has been long time since I studied genetics and botany though...

Many tomato diseases are regional, so I'm not going to comment until you share with us , just roughly, in a geographic sense where you garden and a gardening zone would sure help.

I first checked Your Page for your location since none was given next to your user name, but no info was there either.

Carolyn, going on an assumption of possible S CA coastal.

Looks like late Blight.

Thanks. Good advice. There has been plenty of applied compost and dug-in mulch over the years, so I think I'm OK. Also, as noted, these tomatoes at this location produce strongly in the spring. I've just never tried going for fall production.

I'm in SoCal and have heard about late crops in my
area too. I've tried a few times, but never have gotten
anything worth the effort to keep the plants going.

I do manage to keep them going through late Sep, but
it's fruit that set earlier in the year, not new fruit set.