16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Was at 22.5 inch spacing on 4 ft wide rows (below) fitting 15 plants in the row. This year will go to a 24 inch spacing between plants with 14 plants in the row. Cages are remesh with 3 electrical coduit legs attached to each cage. Bottom of cage is about 6 inches above ground level.
Actually, in this climate, manure is not very rich in anything at all other than OM. Because time does such a good job of reducing the drug and bacterial dangers, I let the stuff sit for perhaps five or so months before using it. At that point there's very little N; most of it has gone off into the atmosphere. If I do use any of the un-aged stuff, it's for flowers, not edibles.
Two yards twice a year seems to work for keeping the beds full. I go through roughly four inches of it yearly and use it only as a top dressing. I don't till, but that doesn't mean the growing layer is pure manure. Pulling mixes things somewhat, and there's also trowel work wherever any plant gets put into the ground, but it's definitely a thick smothering cover. Not quite as lazy as Ruth Stout, but getting there...
There are NO weeds when you smother like that and are stingy with the watering, both drip and rainfall. Again that's local conditions. YMMV
Well, when you dig a hole to plant the layers of soil get mixed, and thats what the roots are in then , which is very good.
Eventually even composted manure will be disintegrated , becoming a kind of topsoil with less micro air pockets.. If I get a lot of organic matter, including manures, I till and mix everything together. I am a "DO TILL !" gardener.
Sey
Jeff: I didn't mean to criticize you for deleting the post, I meant to complain about how the Houz version of the site is different from the old Garden Web. In answer to your question about what happens next, it takes about 6-8 weeks from the time a flower forms until it becomes a ripe fruit under ideal garden conditions. It's not unusual for the first flowers that form to fall off without forming fruits. Early girls can ripen a little sooner than beefsteak type tomatoes.
Also, I would encourage you to stop worrying about a few bugs. Ants and grasshoppers won't hurt your plants, but too much hot sauce or dish liquid might hurt them. As someone said earlier, you're more likely to have problems with diseases than insects, and home made insecticides can make your plants more likely to get diseases by damaging the leaves.
K thanx so much I'll sit back and keep watering and give them time I'm wanting to plow off a spot to plant some okra cucomber maybe a couple rows of corn nothing real big but have I waited too long or is it still early I'd like to get a couple of Pickens off the okra n cucumber I think I still got timeon them but I don't have any idea about the corn when would be the latest I could put them out the weather is good here till late September we get first frost about first or second week of october
Hi Daniel - good to hear from you ! I read your update on the other BB thread. It will be interesting to follow your success and compare results this year - thanks for keeping us informed!
Steve - hope you will post the photo when you find it - that will be interesting!
Yeah, I have the same thinking as Dave.
This year, for example, I am growing 2 hybrids, based on numerous positive reviews. They are: Brandy Boy and Big Beef. I am sure there are a lot more, like Jet Star, Better Boy ... But again I will go with experienced growers' reviews.
Sey
You have to keep in mind that just 10 years ago I was surprised when Dr. Peter Feretti led a discussion on this topic of AAS winners that didn't meet expectations and Big Beef was one variety of tomatoes that was faulted for various reasons. While my experiences with BB have been very good I prefer BrandyMaster to BrandyBoy and Big Boy to Better Boy. Everyone has their own preferences. I spent over $2000 last year for vegetable seeds and yet seed cost is just a fraction of expenses. I gladly paid $1 per seed for Favorita, a cherry tomato that gets little respect.
In line with this discussion topic there are thousands of growers anxiously awaiting Dr. Randy Gardner's release of a host of heirloom crosses with improved disease resistance. Many southern growers simply can't feasably grow heirloom varieties due to soil borne diseases (I've seen the pictures of fields of tomatoes lost presented by Dr Gardner). He should be awarded for numerous Late Blight resistant varieties that he has released over the past that have been revolutionary to tomato growing.
Fireduck, it’s good you’re trying different methods. You will see what works the best for you, and next year you will be more successful.
A few comments, if I may:
First picture:
- Excellent idea to use such a large – 32 (?) Gallon – container. I read somewhere that tomatoes roots can go up to 10 ft. in my garden they only grow up to… 2 ft.
- I suggest you to use mulch – you will avoid diseases. I used both fabric and straw mulch. Each has its advantages and disadvantages.
Second picture:
- Like I wrote above, I suggest to mulch.
- I love that welded wire fencing.
- I think the poles might not be strong enough if you live in a windy area. Tomatoes vines can grow 15-20+ ft. long and a heavy wind can tear down that support.
- The raised bed is about 12’’ high. I think you need at least 18’’ – preferably 24’’. Your tomatoes roots will have a hard time entering that soil.
Last picture:
- I have no comments, because I’m not familiar with the system.
Worms in your soil ? Don’t think so, but you can always buy worm castings.
D...taking your last comment first: that is an "Earthbox" system. For the last 18 months...everything I have grown in it has done great! 2. My wire is supported by what is known a "T stakes". They are plenty strong. 3. I did take the advice and I actually mulched my raised bed today. thanks
I did things differently. From Day 1 of fluorescent lights, Sunlight begins to stream in at a low angle in late February and March in the room and falls where I start them together with the fluorescent light. I adjust the blinds if it gets too hot temperature wise in there, which is what I have to be careful about in March upstairs.
I transplanted them in March directly into their final containers filled only 2/3 and they are placed in the most direct sunlight with the rolled up the second day and are always well-irrigated.
The forecast had a week of rain so I put them outside then, either in my tunnel or under a tree on the driveway, they all go out and are left there. The ones in the hoop are put in their final spaces and under the tree stay there. The humidity is protective and over 90% at night and temperature great as long as they are out by the second week of March. We just as well could have had a freeze then because the extremes can vary here sandwiched between Georgia and Florida, but somebody's got to live here. One night got me at 41 F, but it wasn't as bad as I worried and they were fine. All other nights were over 50 F, mostly 55 F. Now in the second week of April our nightly lows will bottom out at 70 F in a few days, so things move fast. Too fast. By the end of June the party is over.
Now is mid April and time to add the final 1/3 of the containers. The bottom sets of leaves have been removed and air healed, so no one will know if one or two had a little heat damage (which is actually due to the reflected heat and would happen to any leaf to some extent) and they've done their job and been removed, and in two days that part of the stem will be buried ;-)
PC
PC, that's a great idea, to put your light setup where they also get some natural light. Why do you wait to fill your final containers the last 1/3rd? Is it so you don't have to remove quite so many leaves at the time of transplant?
I am terrible about hardening things off, I have a habit of putting something outside and saying "I will leave it for one hour" and then forgetting about it entirely. The next day, I'm like "whoops! I left you outside all night!"
Fortunately I have a bit of a cheat now. I have a sunporch that faces south and also has windows to east and west. It is unheated but probably stays a couple degrees warmer at night. During the day it definitely gets warmer than outside if the sun is shining in. It seems if I have something in the sunporch, it is used to the nighttime temps and therefore doesn't die if I forget it outside :-)
This year I started some herb seeds on the south windowsill inside, then once they sprouted, I set them on the sunporch for a while before setting them outside. This seemed to work well although this probably wouldn't fly for tomatoes. I'd love to add some lights and heat to the sunporch, but there's no outlets out there :(
Personally, I'm going to punt on paste tomatoes this year due to their proclivity to Blossom-End Rot (BER) and grow the following for sauces:
- Earl's Faux
- Tony's Italian
- Prue
- Homer Fink's Yellow Oxheart
From what I've read, these tomatoes have very meaty, have great taste and generally are not that affected by BER.
smithmal
Doing a quick google search I am surprised to find out there actually IS thought to be such a thing as people who are allergic to lycopene. (Not much info on it out there though.) I'm surprised by this, because there are hundreds of compounds in tomatoes (if not thousands) and I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that it's the lycopene that's causing the problem. It's possible this idea is based on people who didn't tolerate lycopene in supplement form (and there are other reasons they may not have tolerated it besides the lycopene itself).
On the other hand, it's well known that some people are sensitive to solanums, which is where I would start if I noticed some reaction to eating tomatoes.
I have heard that lycopene content is enhanced by cooking with oil.
Incredible. Bonnie Plants may have been more in charge of the pricing, not Home Depot. Hardware and garden prices are no longer as attractive as before. Just bought some carriage bolts the other day for ~$1 each (~$0.80 contractor volume price), which cost $0.17 for the identical product sold by a local fence company.
Home Depot irresponsibly allowed hackers to have 56 million payment card details (names, credit/debit card account numbers, expiration dates, internal card security codes, ZIP codes and whether the card was a debit or credit card) and 53 million corresponding email addresses of all people who shopped at Home Depot’s stores and social security numbers if you got credit with them and DOB and addresses if you returned merchandise, between April 2014 and September 2014 in the U.S. and Canada (You still can get them to pay for the year ($15/month) of deluxe identity protection services they purchase on request for anyone who requests it at https://homedepot.allclearid.com/ in the US, or Equifax Premier in Canada).
I don't like HD any more ... this is how they reward our patronage after they put the local nurseries and hardware stores out of business
PC
The Super Snow White is a little bigger with a 2 oz fruit. Tastes the same. I know a lot of people think Italian Ice and Snow White is the same. I can tell you that every year here in Los Angeles there is an event called Tomatomania. They sell 600 different varieties!!!! In any case, Snow White and Italian Ice are two different varieties that they sell. I have never grown Italian Ice but I know they look similar though I think the Italian Ice is a little lighter in color.
From your list I've grown the following:
Isis Candy - was nice and fruit was super sweet but prone to cracking; prefer Sun Gold
Super Snow White - not much flavor though the fruit was large (2oz); prefer Dr. Carolyn's (ping pong sized white cherries)
Stupice - gave me an early harvest but flavor was mushy; my fav for early is "Kimberly"
Sungold - classic home run variety. I grow it every year.
Thanks for highlighting those two sweet cherry varieties. They certainly sound fabulous.
This year as a little experiement I'm going to compare Sungold (F1) and Sun Sugar (F1) with their supposed OP replacements: Ambrosia (OP) and Big SunSelect (OP).
Here's my tomato list:
smithmal
Well you have at least 4 different gardening zones in Mass, possibly more, so specific location would play some role. But the majority of the state is 5a and 5b so aside from different planting times you should be able to grow any of the early or mid-season varieties and there are literally hundreds of those, thousands if you grow your own from seed.
So could you narrow down your preferences more? Growing from seed or buying transplants? If buying, any ideas what varieties are available to choose from there? Determinant or indeterminant, cherry or slicer or beefsteak, red or pink or other colors, hybrid or open-pollinated, etc. What size is your bed? How deep? How many plants do you want to grow? What sort of cages or other supports do you use?20 or 30 :)
With that info we can narrow down the suggestions from hundreds to maybe 30.
Dave
Wormgirl,
Yeas they (WF) had a lot of good popular varieties. I re think they had hybrid too, like 4th of July.
The thread is already dealt with, I think. The neighbor is not going to get any benefit from it anyway. We hope nitsua does not mind us getting off the track.
Sey
I used to grow some marigolds in pots around the tomatoes to attract bees but stopped when I didn't notice and production increase in the tomatoes.
I grow marigolds on the edges of my lasagna beds, but it's more of a pretty factor than a companion factor. And with this years bed rotation, the marigolds are on the edges of pepper, squash, and bean beds, and not along the tomato beds at all, lol. And I thickly direct sow marigold seed too- that way it's a nice bushy border and if/when they get bug-tacular I can just pull those plants if needed.
This year it's carrots and leafy greens edging the tomato beds- but that's more of a got that little space left over I can cram them into rather than companionship. But hey, if it helps, why not?
I've never been sure how basil is supposed to improve tomatoes either- I always figured it was kind of an old wives tale because tomatoes and basil are so often companioned in cooking rather than the growing aspect of it.
I would never grow garlic in my tomato bed- my garlic gets it's own beds, and honestly is one of the only beds that is perfectly picked clean of anything that could compete with the garlic. Garlic might be good for tomatoes, but I wouldn't want to chance tomatoes out competing my garlic.
Borage gets it's own growing space too, because it has it's own application, and I don't want it competed with. I grow calendula aside too for the same reason. My sage is in the herb garden, and I don't grow chives because I have large swaths of my lawn that are thick with wild chives so I don't need to grow any.
Nasturtiums can be a great companion plant as far as I'm concerned- but as a companion plant only as a trap plant that I'm willing to sacrifice. I had a nasty aphid infestation last year, and the nasts trapped almost all of them- and when a bit of the plant got infested, I promptly cut it off and drowned it. I grew them next to peppers and squash last year, and they didn't get a single aphid. I wouldn't rely on nasts as a companion to just let sit and do whatever. But then I have the tendency to grow hedgerows of nasts because I use them a lot for various eating too, so I can use them as sacrificial companions and eating plants.