16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Fireduck, it’s good you’re trying different methods. You will see what works the best for you, and next year you will be more successful.
A few comments, if I may:
First picture:
- Excellent idea to use such a large – 32 (?) Gallon – container. I read somewhere that tomatoes roots can go up to 10 ft. in my garden they only grow up to… 2 ft.
- I suggest you to use mulch – you will avoid diseases. I used both fabric and straw mulch. Each has its advantages and disadvantages.
Second picture:
- Like I wrote above, I suggest to mulch.
- I love that welded wire fencing.
- I think the poles might not be strong enough if you live in a windy area. Tomatoes vines can grow 15-20+ ft. long and a heavy wind can tear down that support.
- The raised bed is about 12’’ high. I think you need at least 18’’ – preferably 24’’. Your tomatoes roots will have a hard time entering that soil.
Last picture:
- I have no comments, because I’m not familiar with the system.
Worms in your soil ? Don’t think so, but you can always buy worm castings.
D...taking your last comment first: that is an "Earthbox" system. For the last 18 months...everything I have grown in it has done great! 2. My wire is supported by what is known a "T stakes". They are plenty strong. 3. I did take the advice and I actually mulched my raised bed today. thanks
I did things differently. From Day 1 of fluorescent lights, Sunlight begins to stream in at a low angle in late February and March in the room and falls where I start them together with the fluorescent light. I adjust the blinds if it gets too hot temperature wise in there, which is what I have to be careful about in March upstairs.
I transplanted them in March directly into their final containers filled only 2/3 and they are placed in the most direct sunlight with the rolled up the second day and are always well-irrigated.
The forecast had a week of rain so I put them outside then, either in my tunnel or under a tree on the driveway, they all go out and are left there. The ones in the hoop are put in their final spaces and under the tree stay there. The humidity is protective and over 90% at night and temperature great as long as they are out by the second week of March. We just as well could have had a freeze then because the extremes can vary here sandwiched between Georgia and Florida, but somebody's got to live here. One night got me at 41 F, but it wasn't as bad as I worried and they were fine. All other nights were over 50 F, mostly 55 F. Now in the second week of April our nightly lows will bottom out at 70 F in a few days, so things move fast. Too fast. By the end of June the party is over.
Now is mid April and time to add the final 1/3 of the containers. The bottom sets of leaves have been removed and air healed, so no one will know if one or two had a little heat damage (which is actually due to the reflected heat and would happen to any leaf to some extent) and they've done their job and been removed, and in two days that part of the stem will be buried ;-)
PC
PC, that's a great idea, to put your light setup where they also get some natural light. Why do you wait to fill your final containers the last 1/3rd? Is it so you don't have to remove quite so many leaves at the time of transplant?
I am terrible about hardening things off, I have a habit of putting something outside and saying "I will leave it for one hour" and then forgetting about it entirely. The next day, I'm like "whoops! I left you outside all night!"
Fortunately I have a bit of a cheat now. I have a sunporch that faces south and also has windows to east and west. It is unheated but probably stays a couple degrees warmer at night. During the day it definitely gets warmer than outside if the sun is shining in. It seems if I have something in the sunporch, it is used to the nighttime temps and therefore doesn't die if I forget it outside :-)
This year I started some herb seeds on the south windowsill inside, then once they sprouted, I set them on the sunporch for a while before setting them outside. This seemed to work well although this probably wouldn't fly for tomatoes. I'd love to add some lights and heat to the sunporch, but there's no outlets out there :(
Personally, I'm going to punt on paste tomatoes this year due to their proclivity to Blossom-End Rot (BER) and grow the following for sauces:
- Earl's Faux
- Tony's Italian
- Prue
- Homer Fink's Yellow Oxheart
From what I've read, these tomatoes have very meaty, have great taste and generally are not that affected by BER.
smithmal
Doing a quick google search I am surprised to find out there actually IS thought to be such a thing as people who are allergic to lycopene. (Not much info on it out there though.) I'm surprised by this, because there are hundreds of compounds in tomatoes (if not thousands) and I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that it's the lycopene that's causing the problem. It's possible this idea is based on people who didn't tolerate lycopene in supplement form (and there are other reasons they may not have tolerated it besides the lycopene itself).
On the other hand, it's well known that some people are sensitive to solanums, which is where I would start if I noticed some reaction to eating tomatoes.
I have heard that lycopene content is enhanced by cooking with oil.
Incredible. Bonnie Plants may have been more in charge of the pricing, not Home Depot. Hardware and garden prices are no longer as attractive as before. Just bought some carriage bolts the other day for ~$1 each (~$0.80 contractor volume price), which cost $0.17 for the identical product sold by a local fence company.
Home Depot irresponsibly allowed hackers to have 56 million payment card details (names, credit/debit card account numbers, expiration dates, internal card security codes, ZIP codes and whether the card was a debit or credit card) and 53 million corresponding email addresses of all people who shopped at Home Depot’s stores and social security numbers if you got credit with them and DOB and addresses if you returned merchandise, between April 2014 and September 2014 in the U.S. and Canada (You still can get them to pay for the year ($15/month) of deluxe identity protection services they purchase on request for anyone who requests it at https://homedepot.allclearid.com/ in the US, or Equifax Premier in Canada).
I don't like HD any more ... this is how they reward our patronage after they put the local nurseries and hardware stores out of business
PC
The Super Snow White is a little bigger with a 2 oz fruit. Tastes the same. I know a lot of people think Italian Ice and Snow White is the same. I can tell you that every year here in Los Angeles there is an event called Tomatomania. They sell 600 different varieties!!!! In any case, Snow White and Italian Ice are two different varieties that they sell. I have never grown Italian Ice but I know they look similar though I think the Italian Ice is a little lighter in color.
From your list I've grown the following:
Isis Candy - was nice and fruit was super sweet but prone to cracking; prefer Sun Gold
Super Snow White - not much flavor though the fruit was large (2oz); prefer Dr. Carolyn's (ping pong sized white cherries)
Stupice - gave me an early harvest but flavor was mushy; my fav for early is "Kimberly"
Sungold - classic home run variety. I grow it every year.
Thanks for highlighting those two sweet cherry varieties. They certainly sound fabulous.
This year as a little experiement I'm going to compare Sungold (F1) and Sun Sugar (F1) with their supposed OP replacements: Ambrosia (OP) and Big SunSelect (OP).
Here's my tomato list:
smithmal
Well you have at least 4 different gardening zones in Mass, possibly more, so specific location would play some role. But the majority of the state is 5a and 5b so aside from different planting times you should be able to grow any of the early or mid-season varieties and there are literally hundreds of those, thousands if you grow your own from seed.
So could you narrow down your preferences more? Growing from seed or buying transplants? If buying, any ideas what varieties are available to choose from there? Determinant or indeterminant, cherry or slicer or beefsteak, red or pink or other colors, hybrid or open-pollinated, etc. What size is your bed? How deep? How many plants do you want to grow? What sort of cages or other supports do you use?20 or 30 :)
With that info we can narrow down the suggestions from hundreds to maybe 30.
Dave
Wormgirl,
Yeas they (WF) had a lot of good popular varieties. I re think they had hybrid too, like 4th of July.
The thread is already dealt with, I think. The neighbor is not going to get any benefit from it anyway. We hope nitsua does not mind us getting off the track.
Sey
see this video from Univ of Maine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSf3aSj46jo
This is how I have been doing it for years. While it isn't exactly a weave, it supports the plants and does a great job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZHEL0_uBww
Hi fireduck,
I'm on the sunny side of WA. I grew out four Willamettes last year purchased as starts from a local Spokane nursery. I planted two in pots (5 gal) and two in ground. All were very healthy, vigorous and productive compact plants. Each went thru three distinct fruiting cycles and lasted until frost.
There were a few problems, the biggest being the taste. They tasted on par with store bought tomato, so completely tasteless. Very disappointing.
Also, they were not early either. Anna Russian and CP ripened earlier for me.
On a more positive note, "The Tomato Lady" in Spokane Valley, 10 miles away from me, has had great successes with Willamettes. She won grand prize at the local county fair in 2013 with her Willamette and it's one of her favorites varieties.
Shelley
Wouldn't a cold frame arrangement help raise the early soil temperature past the critical point? Just use it for appropriate non-tomato plants and move it out of the way when the toms are demanding to go into the ground? (caution: even though I do all germination outside, I haven't used a CF since they were made of wood and glass storm windows because plastic wasn't invented yet.) I know there's a scale problem but early toms are worth it!
"Where I am in Miami, Florida, I am wondering if a shade house would ... help tomatoes survive a Miami summer. I believe they are used mostly to help Orchids survive in sunny yards."
My parents' home in WPB had a grapefruit, an old-timey avocado, and an impossibly huge ficus tree. They held what seemed like a hundred orchids and bromeliads 24/7/365. It would seem you guys have an ideal orchid climate.
I'm not familiar with midwest weather Randy but in North Tx I must plant at the very earliest date after frost,plant two weeks early and cover when frost threatens or use cold frames to give plants a head start. The time between last frost and 90 deg F where blossoms no longer set isn't long enough for tomatoes varietes over 70 days. Most people plant two weeks before last frost and cover as needed. The problem with that is if you are delayed in removing covers plants can be shocked or killed from overheating. My answer is in my cold frames. My frames are much taller than conventional. I am both curious and frugal so I repurpous,recycle and experiment at every opertunity. I will explain one frame that you are familiar with so that you can see how I build a frame from scratch. i rescued a supermarket reach in dairy case which is about perfect. I cut a 6" vent near bottom and installed a 3" flexiable hose at top. Hose runs down 18"to connect to a box containing fan from dairy case. The descending hose prevents heat lose by natural convection (warm air rises,cold air drops.) The thermostat has one set of contacts that make on temperature rise above an adjustible 32F to 55F and break as temperature drops which in turn control cooling compressor. There is a secound set of contacts which make and break inverse to first set. When unnessary components were stripped,I retained defrost heaters and connected them to the secound set of contacts which make on temp fall turning heaters on then break when temp reaches 45-50F. Another salvaged t-stat was mounted high in case, internally altered to perform in the 80F range and connected to fan. I save and raid gas station island trash for black oil,trans fluid and anti-freeze jugs. Jugs are filled with weak mix of water/anti-freeze then placed inside case where solar heat is stored then released during night to miniumize energy used by defrost heaters. A chime is connected parallel with heaters and a buzzer with fan to allow me to dial them in. Plants sit near top in colder weather then decend to lower shelves as they grow and weather milds. When plants are removed from flats they go into 1 gallon pots. Cumulativly, years tinkering has shown as cu ft space inside frame increases, maintaining temperature becomes increasingly easier. Gallon pots ease moisture and nutrient maintainance, reduce transplant shock and alow plants to hit the ground running. I hope this was relivant to your question.
The temperatures ( 50F ++) is just fine.
Now if you keep them in the shady place, there is no need to cover them with shade cloth. A couple hours of morning sun should be ok to start.
One more thing: Can you keep your basement cooler for few days before moving your plants out ? For example by opening windows (if there are any).
But all in all min. temp of 50F should not be too shocking, especially when you bring them out in the morning when it starts getting warmer out side. The purpose of hardening of it to avoid big changes in temperature for a few few days until the get used to it. Tomatoe can tolerate temperatures as low as 37F, provided it is done gradually. But in your case 50F is nothing to be concerned about.
Sey
Yeah, I have the same thinking as Dave.
This year, for example, I am growing 2 hybrids, based on numerous positive reviews. They are: Brandy Boy and Big Beef. I am sure there are a lot more, like Jet Star, Better Boy ... But again I will go with experienced growers' reviews.
Sey
You have to keep in mind that just 10 years ago I was surprised when Dr. Peter Feretti led a discussion on this topic of AAS winners that didn't meet expectations and Big Beef was one variety of tomatoes that was faulted for various reasons. While my experiences with BB have been very good I prefer BrandyMaster to BrandyBoy and Big Boy to Better Boy. Everyone has their own preferences. I spent over $2000 last year for vegetable seeds and yet seed cost is just a fraction of expenses. I gladly paid $1 per seed for Favorita, a cherry tomato that gets little respect.
In line with this discussion topic there are thousands of growers anxiously awaiting Dr. Randy Gardner's release of a host of heirloom crosses with improved disease resistance. Many southern growers simply can't feasably grow heirloom varieties due to soil borne diseases (I've seen the pictures of fields of tomatoes lost presented by Dr Gardner). He should be awarded for numerous Late Blight resistant varieties that he has released over the past that have been revolutionary to tomato growing.