16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

Normally, you should have put some coarse gravel at the bottom of the barrel and have drilled 3 or more about inch size holes ,just above the bottom. Smaller holes at the bottom(especially without gravel) might get clogged. I have seen it to happen with a 10gal plastic

@ seysonn,

Please go to this link
Article that explains perched water tables or this one Container Drainage, or this one Myth busted: Don't put gravel in pot . Time and time again, studies have shown that it is actually detrimental to put gravel in the bottom of ANY container for growing plants. Doing so reduces the available room for roots by raising the perched water table.

Betsy

Here is a link that might be useful: Another article on gravel in pots

This post was edited by bets on Sat, Jun 8, 13 at 10:51

If they are sickly because of rookie mistakes, it makes sense to root cuttings as long as you don't repeat the same mistakes. If the plants are diseased, I'd pass on rooting cuttings.

Many people take cuttings or clippings of tomatoes and root them. I think one of the most common methods is to root them in water. Personally I don't like that method very well, though I have used it. One reason I don't care for it is that the roots that are developed in water are different than the ones that plants grow in soil. That means that once you have water roots, you then have to plant the cutting into a soilless growing medium, and it has to go through a process of growing roots that are adapted to its natural environment. Tomatoes donâÂÂt normally grow in water. It isn't their natural habitat.

So what I do, is take a smallish container, such as a 2x2" or 3x3" pot and fill it with soilless growing medium, poke a hole big enough for the tomato stem and put it in it, then firm the medium around the stem and water very well. (To the point of saturation.) Then I put the tomato in an area with bright but not direct light. For me that is usually under my fluorescents that I use for seed starting. I start with cuttings that have at least 3-5 leaves on them and about 3-4â of stem below the leaves. (I have used smaller than that successfully, but it takes longer to get a good sized plant for transplanting.) Keep the medium pretty wet, I have even had the rooting container sitting in about a quarter to half inch of water and just let it stay in there but donâÂÂt add anymore water. The first day or two the plant will droop a lot and look like it is gonna die, but then it will perk up. When it perks up, that means it has started making roots and you can stop keeping the potting mix so wet and follow a normal watering regimen. Give it a few more days to a week longer and once it is well established, you can harden it off for planting outdoors.

You can use bigger cuttings, but you'd need a bigger pot and they may not recover quite as quickly. People do it all the time when they have a branch break off a plant in the garden and they just shove the broken branch into the soil and as long as it is moist enough and the branch is somewhat shaded, it will usually grow.

By the way, taking cuttings works best with indeterminate tomatoes like your three.

Betsy

This post was edited by bets on Sat, Jun 8, 13 at 13:27

Betsy and Dave ...thanks again so much.

I'm pretty sure they are not sick with fungus or bacteria ...based upon the research I did. I suspect it may either be from overwatering or lack of nutrients. I am pretty sure the mix in my first container where they were overcrowded was holding too much water and not providing enough aeration. I am trying self-watering setups and I think too much moisture coupled with lack of nutrients because the plants hadn't accessed the fertilizer in the strip at the top of the container yet was my problem. I moved them each to their own container, but now I think even though I amended my mixture, it still may be too wet (just based on how the plants look and what I've been reading). I am hoping for some warm, sunny weather (we've had rain for the past two days) to see if the soil will dry out some and they can recover. I don't see any pests or damage that I think points to anything bacterial or fungal ...but I am a novice and am just going off of what I've been reading.

Anyway, I think I will try to take some cuttings and see if I can propagate some new plants.

Agreed on all points but it might be a bit unfair to compare to Big Beef which I (also?) had growing next to. I'll go so far as to mention that in late fall i had 3 of my support stringlines fail, all were Rebelski plants heavy with developing fruits. It probably is just coincidence.

Planted 250..100% germination. Transplanted to hoop house 3/1 plants are 7 foot and loaded. Tested last season and was impressed with production and flavor though not as good as early girls but sold better on the stand because of looks.

Soluble 20-20-20 won't burn unless the potting mix (or soil when in the ground) is dry when the fert is applied.

Evidence of dry leaf edges means that they're too dry. Several possible reasons: too little water; dry out before watered again; and are in marginally sized containers -- thus, insufficient root room.

Jean is right about half strength 20-20-20 not burning. I suspect your problem is contained in the next statement:

"I have never checked moisture of the soil any more than 2 inches. I'm not really sure how wet it is supposed to be but its always damp for the most part."

Curling leaves are typically a sign of stress in a tomato plant, with over watering being one of the most common causes.

GardenWebber sprouts_honor (Jennifer from Cleveland) had a wonderful suggestion on how to tell whether or not you need to water your tomatoes, and I quote here: "Get a wooden dowel rod (or two) and sink it in the ground near a plant or two and leave it. Pull it out when you think you need to water. If the top is dry and the bottom is a little damp, it's time to water. If it looks dark and feels saturated, wait to water. I use this technique with potted plants that don't like being over watered and it's helpful with in ground plants too."

Betsy

Dave makes a good point about different growing conditions. I thought I had always given every variety the "Benefit of the doubt" but every year we get a heat wave and heirloom tomato production slows. This year I've installed a shade cloth over the one greenhouse where most heirloom varieties are grown and I'll likely install one on the other larger structure.

I've never had a situation when I only picked 3 tomatoes from one plant but a person did relate that experience to me about a Hillbilly plant. I never thought much about Anna Russian but the 2 plants I have this year seem to have over 30 larger green fruits hanging on them now so I can't complain about that one. I'm still growing Earl's Faux too but when my seed stock runs out I'll not reorder, not for reasons of production but b/c it just doesn't stand out. Dave, you'll have to defend your reasons for supporting that variety.

I assumed everyone got loads of Green Zebra tomatoes. They are a bit late for such a small fruited type but almost everyone likes the yield that I talked to. As for Kelloggs Breakfast, it isn't so much a matter of the number of fruit but the overall weight of the crop. Give KBX version a try for a little better yield of that larger orange tomato.

I think if there is any variety you really want to grow it's a good idea to give it 2-3 years before giving up. The first year I grew Cherokee Purple (2011) I only got a few tomatoes that the caterpillars got to before I did, but last year I got tons of tomatoes from it.

Here you go from one of the earlier discussions:

Any small container (old cell packs work fine) with drain holes filled with a well moistened sterile potting mix works. A 4-6" growth tip cutting or a "sucker" - no leaf branches or bare stems - stuck deep into the dampened mix and lightly pressed into place and labeled works. Indoor temps are best - less stress and sun isn't needed for the first 3-4 days anyway. The cuttings will droop for 2-3 days, keep the soil lightly moistened until they perk up. Then they can be moved to the shade until ready to transplant.

Takes 8-10 days

Dave

Thanks Dave and Betsy. I picked up a bag of MG potting mix to start these in. Since I have the ingredients for the 5-1-1 (besides lime) is there any reason not to go that route later and just stick with the MG? Surprisingly the bark I have for that mix is still good, in that it's not moldy... yet. I'd like to get rid of it before it does go bad. What's you opinion(s)? Too much experimenting? Will I yield the same results?

Dave,
Although I'll be using the MG mix ... I read of the vermiculite in a few threads here. Here are a couple:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg0612374628014.html

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg0711243831773.html

Here is a link that might be useful: 5-1-1 Mix

This post was edited by gynot on Fri, Jun 7, 13 at 16:36

Are these the same variety of tomato plant? If not then there is no point in trying to compare them. Different varieties have different leaf sizes and growth patterns.

If they ARE the same variety then what you are seeing is most likely the many differences in growing conditions. Growing in any type of container will never be the same or give the same results as growing in ground. There are simply too many differences.

But the only way to determine which different growing condition is affecting them the most is to change the conditions one at a time and that isn't always practical.

A best guess would be that the nutrients in the grow bags have depleted unless you have been replacing them weekly since they will leach out of the buckets and grow bags much faster than out of the raised bed.

But it could also be the heat on the bags, the differences in the soils, the plants in the containers being rootbound, the heat/sun exposure, etc. etc.

Dave

I have 4 different tomato varieties. I have one of each growing in raised beds, self-watering containers, and grow bags. All varieties look very healthy in raised beds. However, the ones in grow bags and in self-watering containers (all are 5-gallon containers) have the top growth with smaller leaves.

The tomatoes in self-watering containers and grow bags have tons of tomatoes already on them. However, the plants in raised beds only have a few here and there. Could it be that with all those tomatoes on the plant it doesn't have enough energy to produce healthier leaves?

I do fertilize every other week. Also, the grow bags have a container underneath them to collect or soak up any water. Often I just water the container and it gets soaked up into the grow bag.

One thing is I do have 2 plants in grow bags that are under partial sun exposure and they have fairly normal looking leaves compared to the others.

My plan right now is to try giving a few plants partial shade and see if anything changes.

Interesting and challenging setup.

Since you mention awful soil, and perhaps cost consciousness, you can always fill the garden plot with leaves at the end of the growing season. Grinding them up is preferable but not necessary. I mention leaves because they are free, often plentiful, and they do so much good for the soil. You can plow them under a month or two before the growing season, if you feel like it. The type of leaf to avoid is walnut because walnut trees contain a plant growth inhibitor.

If you live within driving distance of the ocean, try to fill a few bags with seaweed. It has just a little NPK, so it would be hard to overfertilize your plants with it, but it has lots of minerals that the soil needs. Just be sure to wash the salt off very very well (both wash and soak?). Afterwards you can apply it fresh, dried, aged.

Wishing you luck with your grow!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Leaf and soil food web discussion

Sjetski,

Seaweed, I never thought of that! I live within a bus ride of the ocean. I think a beach adventure is in order and I've never heard of a better excuse to splurge on the fare to get to play in the waves and sun.

Keep in mind you are comparing totally different varieties with very different genetics. Those genetics play a big role, not to mention variables in growing conditions.

Dave

The store bought variety was Cherokee Purple, so it was essentially similar to the other 8 Heirloom varieties, at least as much as heirlooms can be considered "similar" it's not like I had planted some Patio Plant, and compared them to some Cherry's I was growing.

My apologies if your comment was directed at the OP, but even in his case, under almost any circumstances, sungold should have tomatoes on the vine before Brandywine.

Could be the 2 weeks of rain. The growth on top looks ok. They will probably improve if it doesn't keep raining. We're getting our share here too. 2.4 inches yesterday.

Hi,

Agree with edweather, this plant shows lack of air to the roots.

A drowning effect from too much water, or a combination of lack of drain holes, compacted soil, heavy soil, etc. where the roots are in an aerobic environment.

A helpful link 4u is below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato Problem Solver

You don't have to spray the roundup.

You can use a sponge or rag and wipe it on the grass, use gloves of course.

Then you don't have to worry about it getting on anything you don't want to kill.

Pull what you can near the tomato while it is small. Indeterminate tomatoes grow large unless you prune them and will out compete and shade Bermuda this season. In fall or late summer when your tomatoes are mostly done for the year take care of the Bermuda. Use cardboard up to the tomato plant - big brown sheets of it look best- cover it with some sort of mulch. It may be slick to walk on so be careful. I use Round up sometimes carefully near precious plants but it is so easy to accidently get on something or even when you are painting it on drips can fall on a wanted plant. I have Johnson grass in my asparagus and near a viburnum shrub and I have carefully painted it on individual leaves a few at a time gradually working toward elimination.

TMV is practically non-existent in the US and has been for more than 30 years or so. CMV is active but this isn't it. Nor is it spider mites as the damage is limited and patchy rather than uniform over the leaf surface.

It "could" be aphid damage but you would see the aphids (just as you would see the mites if they were present). So odds are 9:1 that what you are seeing is what is called environmental damage - sun scald/wind burn - and is quite common this time of year. It is normally found on the older leaves, not the new growth and it poses no threat to the plant but removing the affected leaves is beneficial. No reason to leave them on the plant.

Dave

You are both correct with the environmental damage, then....thank you so very much. I have not seen any aphids whatsoever, and after looking sunscald up, it fits the bill.

I truly appreciate the help and I'm thankful that all of my container plants are safe!!