16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

Dave makes a good point about different growing conditions. I thought I had always given every variety the "Benefit of the doubt" but every year we get a heat wave and heirloom tomato production slows. This year I've installed a shade cloth over the one greenhouse where most heirloom varieties are grown and I'll likely install one on the other larger structure.

I've never had a situation when I only picked 3 tomatoes from one plant but a person did relate that experience to me about a Hillbilly plant. I never thought much about Anna Russian but the 2 plants I have this year seem to have over 30 larger green fruits hanging on them now so I can't complain about that one. I'm still growing Earl's Faux too but when my seed stock runs out I'll not reorder, not for reasons of production but b/c it just doesn't stand out. Dave, you'll have to defend your reasons for supporting that variety.

I assumed everyone got loads of Green Zebra tomatoes. They are a bit late for such a small fruited type but almost everyone likes the yield that I talked to. As for Kelloggs Breakfast, it isn't so much a matter of the number of fruit but the overall weight of the crop. Give KBX version a try for a little better yield of that larger orange tomato.

I think if there is any variety you really want to grow it's a good idea to give it 2-3 years before giving up. The first year I grew Cherokee Purple (2011) I only got a few tomatoes that the caterpillars got to before I did, but last year I got tons of tomatoes from it.

Here you go from one of the earlier discussions:

Any small container (old cell packs work fine) with drain holes filled with a well moistened sterile potting mix works. A 4-6" growth tip cutting or a "sucker" - no leaf branches or bare stems - stuck deep into the dampened mix and lightly pressed into place and labeled works. Indoor temps are best - less stress and sun isn't needed for the first 3-4 days anyway. The cuttings will droop for 2-3 days, keep the soil lightly moistened until they perk up. Then they can be moved to the shade until ready to transplant.

Takes 8-10 days

Dave

Thanks Dave and Betsy. I picked up a bag of MG potting mix to start these in. Since I have the ingredients for the 5-1-1 (besides lime) is there any reason not to go that route later and just stick with the MG? Surprisingly the bark I have for that mix is still good, in that it's not moldy... yet. I'd like to get rid of it before it does go bad. What's you opinion(s)? Too much experimenting? Will I yield the same results?

Dave,
Although I'll be using the MG mix ... I read of the vermiculite in a few threads here. Here are a couple:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg0612374628014.html

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg0711243831773.html

Here is a link that might be useful: 5-1-1 Mix

This post was edited by gynot on Fri, Jun 7, 13 at 16:36

Are these the same variety of tomato plant? If not then there is no point in trying to compare them. Different varieties have different leaf sizes and growth patterns.

If they ARE the same variety then what you are seeing is most likely the many differences in growing conditions. Growing in any type of container will never be the same or give the same results as growing in ground. There are simply too many differences.

But the only way to determine which different growing condition is affecting them the most is to change the conditions one at a time and that isn't always practical.

A best guess would be that the nutrients in the grow bags have depleted unless you have been replacing them weekly since they will leach out of the buckets and grow bags much faster than out of the raised bed.

But it could also be the heat on the bags, the differences in the soils, the plants in the containers being rootbound, the heat/sun exposure, etc. etc.

Dave

I have 4 different tomato varieties. I have one of each growing in raised beds, self-watering containers, and grow bags. All varieties look very healthy in raised beds. However, the ones in grow bags and in self-watering containers (all are 5-gallon containers) have the top growth with smaller leaves.

The tomatoes in self-watering containers and grow bags have tons of tomatoes already on them. However, the plants in raised beds only have a few here and there. Could it be that with all those tomatoes on the plant it doesn't have enough energy to produce healthier leaves?

I do fertilize every other week. Also, the grow bags have a container underneath them to collect or soak up any water. Often I just water the container and it gets soaked up into the grow bag.

One thing is I do have 2 plants in grow bags that are under partial sun exposure and they have fairly normal looking leaves compared to the others.

My plan right now is to try giving a few plants partial shade and see if anything changes.

Interesting and challenging setup.

Since you mention awful soil, and perhaps cost consciousness, you can always fill the garden plot with leaves at the end of the growing season. Grinding them up is preferable but not necessary. I mention leaves because they are free, often plentiful, and they do so much good for the soil. You can plow them under a month or two before the growing season, if you feel like it. The type of leaf to avoid is walnut because walnut trees contain a plant growth inhibitor.

If you live within driving distance of the ocean, try to fill a few bags with seaweed. It has just a little NPK, so it would be hard to overfertilize your plants with it, but it has lots of minerals that the soil needs. Just be sure to wash the salt off very very well (both wash and soak?). Afterwards you can apply it fresh, dried, aged.

Wishing you luck with your grow!!

Here is a link that might be useful: Leaf and soil food web discussion

Sjetski,

Seaweed, I never thought of that! I live within a bus ride of the ocean. I think a beach adventure is in order and I've never heard of a better excuse to splurge on the fare to get to play in the waves and sun.

Keep in mind you are comparing totally different varieties with very different genetics. Those genetics play a big role, not to mention variables in growing conditions.

Dave

The store bought variety was Cherokee Purple, so it was essentially similar to the other 8 Heirloom varieties, at least as much as heirlooms can be considered "similar" it's not like I had planted some Patio Plant, and compared them to some Cherry's I was growing.

My apologies if your comment was directed at the OP, but even in his case, under almost any circumstances, sungold should have tomatoes on the vine before Brandywine.

Could be the 2 weeks of rain. The growth on top looks ok. They will probably improve if it doesn't keep raining. We're getting our share here too. 2.4 inches yesterday.

Hi,

Agree with edweather, this plant shows lack of air to the roots.

A drowning effect from too much water, or a combination of lack of drain holes, compacted soil, heavy soil, etc. where the roots are in an aerobic environment.

A helpful link 4u is below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato Problem Solver

You don't have to spray the roundup.

You can use a sponge or rag and wipe it on the grass, use gloves of course.

Then you don't have to worry about it getting on anything you don't want to kill.

Pull what you can near the tomato while it is small. Indeterminate tomatoes grow large unless you prune them and will out compete and shade Bermuda this season. In fall or late summer when your tomatoes are mostly done for the year take care of the Bermuda. Use cardboard up to the tomato plant - big brown sheets of it look best- cover it with some sort of mulch. It may be slick to walk on so be careful. I use Round up sometimes carefully near precious plants but it is so easy to accidently get on something or even when you are painting it on drips can fall on a wanted plant. I have Johnson grass in my asparagus and near a viburnum shrub and I have carefully painted it on individual leaves a few at a time gradually working toward elimination.

TMV is practically non-existent in the US and has been for more than 30 years or so. CMV is active but this isn't it. Nor is it spider mites as the damage is limited and patchy rather than uniform over the leaf surface.

It "could" be aphid damage but you would see the aphids (just as you would see the mites if they were present). So odds are 9:1 that what you are seeing is what is called environmental damage - sun scald/wind burn - and is quite common this time of year. It is normally found on the older leaves, not the new growth and it poses no threat to the plant but removing the affected leaves is beneficial. No reason to leave them on the plant.

Dave

You are both correct with the environmental damage, then....thank you so very much. I have not seen any aphids whatsoever, and after looking sunscald up, it fits the bill.

I truly appreciate the help and I'm thankful that all of my container plants are safe!!

In my opinion, you should separate them. Then you can either plant in their final destination(garden or pot) or plant them in a 4" pot and later on do the final transplant. The smaller the seedling, the less shock from transplanting. But transplanting individual seedling from a 4" pot to permanent location will not disturb it. All you would do then is to water it , wait a while, take it out of pot(by inverting and slight tapping on the bottom and putting in the prepared hole(garden or planter) .I would not touch the roots, although tomatoes are tolerant.

I agree with seysonn...that's what I did this season. My plants are in the garden and look good (except for the unending rain, which I hope does not cause too many problems...got the fungicide ready).

I don,t think that grubs(some kind of larva) are harmful at that stage. But problem start when they turn into caterpillars, beetles etc.
Moles, eat grubs, that is true but if there are no moles in the area they won't appear suddenly from nowhere. One way to get rid of grubs is to use grub killer. But then you will kill the earthworms too. I would rather not do that.

Probably a type of scarab beetle which includes the June Beetle, Japanese Beetle, Hercules Beetle, Stag Beetle, etc.

Eating rotting matter...compost, perhaps?

I would remove and relocate or feed to birds (or chickens).

Here is an interesting read: http://ag.arizona.edu/yavapai/anr/hort/byg/archive/whitegrubs.html

Here is a link that might be useful: Stag Beetle Larva

Well after temps down into the mid 30s Memorial Day weekend, then rain for a week followed by a heat wave in the 90s for 3 days, I finally got them in. on May 28th. It feels like I am way behind this year. Last year I planted out May 20, but with larger plants that were started earlier and I had a really good year and canned quite a bit. The year before I didn't plant until June 3 and had crummy weather I think, and poor year for yields, and I didn't can any. But we will see what happens. When I look at previous planting dates, I am actually not all that late, but I think I had larger plants to start with because I started them earlier. I keep a very sparse journal and try to remember to at least record seed starting, transplanting and planting out dates as well as first harvest dates for tomatoes. I have the last 3 years and in a few more SHOULD be able to draw some conclusions about what works best.

I will probably decide the weather has more effect on the outcome than anything I do. But it sure does make it hard to get them hardened off properly.

Don't feel bad. I've only got 30 in the ground so far - another 85 or so to go (I only put 20 determinates near the house instead of 24 b/c I ran out of room - spacing got a little off b/c of rocks). But most of yesterday was spent watering the pots, picking up T posts, putting up a CRW "trellis" in the interior row of my main tomato area (1000 ft from the house). Got 5 SuperSweet 100 and 5 Rose de Berne in that area before I had to quit, clean up, and take DD to Girl Scouts.

Today I'll see how many I can get in before riding lesson. Supposed to rain the next 2 days. At least my beans (planted 5/30) are germinating without me having had to water them!

The tomatoes and peppers are the only things left to go in - peppers are hardening off now (here we go again!).

BTW, I think the past years were unusual knock in wood) - 2011 was so wet, and 2012 so hot and dry. Off to a little bit of a late start this year, but hopefully it will be more "normal" (temperate). would be nice to have warm weather into Sept/Oct so we have time for late season tomatoes and of course the peppers.

great ideas....thinking it is not ripe as long as I can see the slight area of green. Like the reds...wont this green area disappear when ripe?

Some black tomatoes keep the green on top. I have grown BP but I forget. Go by the touch method described.