16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
I think the soil temperature is also a major factor.
I keep checking it. It is about 52F now. But I have covered the raised beds with black plastic since early Feb. I just cut a (+ sign) shape and plant and keep the plastic til August .
I have only noticed that growth is slow but they do grow once the roots grab the soil. At the end of season some of my indets get over 8 ft tall..
Cool weather is a fact of life here at PNW. Our nights low will reach 50F+ sometime in early June. May's average night lows is ~ 47F. June's average night low is about 53 F. July and August average low is about 56 - 58F. Only one or two days in summer the highs reach and exceed 86F. That is why our Heat Zone number is "ONE", a lonely number :D.
The above statistics are for north of Seattle (Redmond area).
So here it is not worth it to wait for the warm weather to arrive soon, like in Mid West zone 5,6, 7..
Wish me a hot season. hehe
Sey
I understand that, Sey. What I'm talking about is the "cold turkey" approach.
<They look a little droopy since they went from 70 degrees to a cool 45 with a little rain last night. >
From 70+ degrees zapped to 45 degrees and rain. There is no need for or benefit to that. That is not hardening off no matter how you define it and those plants in the first picture were damagedas a resultof doing it.
And based on the comment
<I wanted them to go into shock to stunt their growth.>
It was intentional.
Dave
I also prefer straw especially if it is free:-). But you might get some rye or wheat growing in it . Also with the hay you might get weeds.
My other favorite mulch is pine straw. Down in GA you can get plenty of it at reasonable prices. HD used to sell it trucks load of it. It is the most common landscaping mulch down there. But Up here in PNW all I can get is pine bark mulch or nuggets. @ 2 bucks per cubic foot. Not bad.
Sey
<Basically I would be worried about any potential pesticides if I don't know where its coming from. Or is that not something typically used in straw?>
Herbicides is more of a concern than pesticides. Longer lasting and more damage. But neither is commonly used with grain crops IME and if the bales are aged more than a year old they'd be of minimal concern.
Dave
I have tried the water spray method. Didn't work. It knocked off quite a few but the next day they were all clustered at the end of the young texas mimosa plant that I have been nurturing from seed. I have not noticed them on my garden veggies yet and that has me worried that they will jump ship and spread to the garden plants. The ants are taking very good care of them. I have seen ladybugs around but they don't seem to be doing anything about the black bean aphids. I have also tried Neem Oil spray and that doesn't seem to phase them. Today dusted them with Diomataceous Earth and it also didn't seem to phase them. It got rid of the nursing ants but not the aphids. I think in order for the D-earth to work they actually need to move around somewhat, which the aphids just seem to sit there and suck away at the stem ends. I've tried picking them off but after about fifteen minutes of that I begin to see double. Well, I will try the garlic and onion and oil mixture next.
I would like to add a point here:
DO NOT expect to get rid of aphids in one application/shot. Aphids have more than one stage of life besides being tough.
I will continue with light treatment with jet spray until i don't see them anymore.
Sey
rhodes, welcome
If I follow the recommended spacing I cannot plant half as many. I space mine in average 18". Maybe 19". So a 19" by 19" square = 2.5 sqr-ft. per plant. that is 2.5 time space of square ft gardening.
So in a 3ft by 6ft raised bed I plant 7 plants (staggered). But I have to work harder to stake them and prune them. . I might not get huge production but I try many more varieties.
Ok. Back to Brown tomatoes.
I am thinking to add a Black Prince. BBS are selling the seedlings.
So what do you think about it ?
Seysonn.
I'll try your spacing... I really want to squeeze them all in. I've already let go of the Hillbilly but gave it to someone who I'm sure I can get at least one tomato from so I can save the seeds. Black prince... I grew it once about 3 years ago but not since. It was one that showed up at a lot of the nurseries around here and then became scarce. I can't remember why I didn't save the seeds... I have this slight negative memory about prince, perhaps it bit the dust early on and so I never got to taste the tomatoes.
I usually put two seeds per cell, six cells of each variety, and this year I finally accepted that almost all will come up, I will have too many seedlings and then plants, I will be uneccesarily vexed caring for them, and even trying to give them away. So this year after thining I kept two or three of each of six varieties, and plan to keep one or two of each.
These are all last years seeds from TGS.
Peppers are a whole 'nother matter, but last years pepper seeds from TGS all seem to have germinated. None were chinenses though. I was lucky enough to have succesfully overwinter most of last years.
Thanks Barrie2m. Went to Dr. Snyder's website and he does indeed state that BER could be a lack of calcium. So many different opinions. I believe that I will add some lime after-all, not a lot but just enough to see if in fact it does make a difference. Good info on his website.
Man I hate beating this dead horse yet again as it has been done in such infinite detail here so often over and over again.
But for the benefit of future readers please note that Dr. Snyder's specialty is greenhouse growing which is a totally different environment with its own set of issues. That isn't saying he is wrong, he isn't. But it doesn't mean it has broad-band applicability either.
And the statement made about lack of calcium is a lack in the fruit, not in the soil. That it is a circulation issue (the fuel pump or fuel injectors to use Barrie's metaphor). So what dictates circulation and fuel injection in a tomato plant?
Lastly, if growing in containers and using a quality soil-less potting mix then it already contains lime. What it often doesn't contain is enough soil volume to keep the plants engine running smoothly and evenly without idling roughly.
So add more lime or egg shells or clam shells or TUMs or aspirin or milk or whatever of the many claimed "cures/preventatives" you wish as long as you understand that if you are fortunate enough to not have any BER it isn't because of what you added.
It is a result of a whole series of conditional coincidences that include, weather, soil pH, controlled and consistent moisture levels, too early fruit set on a young plant, poor or inadequate root development relative to the top growth, the variety grown, the form and amount of the nutrients available or in excess, and (if in containers) that you used a large enough container for the plant's health. Skew any of them and you will have BER in early season fruit.
Dave
I couldn't help myself, I'm sacrificing melons for tomatoes. Final list, 1 ea of: Azoychka, Anna Russian, Black Krim (dry farmed), Blue Streak, Black Plum Paste, Caspian Pink, Cherokee Purple (dry farmed), Cosmonaut Volkov, Granadero, Jaune Flamme, Tiren, San Marzano Tall
As I mentioned earlier they turn from black with green undersides to black with orange undersides. This means that one needs to lift the ripening fruit regularly to check if ready to pick, something I never do with other varieties.
Now there is a flood of these to hit the market in different forms. Last year it was disappointed with Indigo Blue Berries. This year I'm trying Indigo Kumquat.
More info on Indigo Rose :
@ Jennie..
Yeah. Rosella has RL. It is so obvious. They already have 4 true leaves. The other one with PL also has about 4 true leave and twice as tall. I just separated them. I labeled the other one " ?1 SURPRISE !!??" . It is very vigorous. That is why I am keeping it.
Seysonn
Update!
I gave up on them and trimmed them all back so that I could keep them alive, except two plants that I gave to our secretary at the shop. She put them in a very sunny window in her office. I don't have a sunny window at home so all of my light has to be artificial.
They have ripening tomatoes on them now and I am pretty sure that they are black cherry plants because of the color and size of the fruit. They are very tall and spindly but have fruit! She will have fresh toms before anyone! :)
I planted the ones that I trimmed back in an old bed over a week ago and they are growing fast! They had a lot of roots and they will probably be my first toms too. I'm not too crazy about the taste of black cherry, but since they are early I'm sure they will be better than store bought, I can accept that!
It all happened in 2008:
Wanted : determinant, GOOD TASTING, productive, EARLY ....
Sure thing, why not > Let me know. :-)
I may come close by saying : Siletz and Rutgers (the det version). And how about Rio Grange ? I am growing them this season and have grown Rutgers and Siletz in the past
Seysonn
I think the best way to find out is to try it. But I can imaging the lumber having these disadvantages :
1- warping
2- A haven for bugs and insects,
3- compacting the soil ( depending on thickness and water absorption) .
I don't even like the cardboard idea. In my opinion mulch has to be someting that the soil underneath can breath. Plants roots also need some air.
JMO
Seysonn
I might try it on the paths in the bed if there are any but not around the plants themselves. Like Seysonn said - a great hideout for insects and slugs would be in hog heaven. :)
And even cardboard is permeable allowing for both water and air to pass through. Both are very important to the plant and soil health and neither would have access to the soil with lumber.
Plus the roots don't stay in the hole you cut in the wood. They run for feet in all directions. So getting water out to the roots where it is needed would be difficult.
Dave
I prefer using liquid supplements - either synthetic or organic as they are immediately available to the plant. The slow-release in MG and similar products depends on the moisture content of the soil to provide any nutrients.
Fish emulsion, fish with kelp, and several similar things are readily available and can easily be diluted to 1/4 to 1/2 strength for use. How often and at what intervals - average 10 days to every 2 weeks - all depends on how long before the plants will go outside to the ground or containers.
I commend you on restricting the water as most go to the other extreme. In the photo the soil surface appears extra dry but soil surface isn't a valid indicator for watering. Learn to read the leaf turgor - its flick response - as a good indication for watering.
Dave
To Labradors: I now live in the country and have armadillos who can make a small hole to a 5" diameter 7" deep. We have a horse that can step in the hole and break a leg. Armadillos are weapon bait. They have moved as far east and north as NC from AZ and NM.
To Labradors: Are you urban or rural? What quadrant of the U.S. do you live? Describe the hole? Armadillos most often dig a small golf ball sized hole that is somewhat cone shaped like their head. Sometimes they can dig something 8 to 10 inches in diameter at an angle going down, typically around cover like bushes, but not always. I purchased a system called "Dakota Alert" which has a receiver in the house and a transmitter outside. They also sell a hand held receiver. They can be set to zones one through four. They can transmit a quarter mile through trees, bushes and other plants. I have four of them spread out. When the armadillos wake me up I can handle them. They are also great security systems.