16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

Hi Dave,

I don't have a photo right now. It's a bit dark, as it's early morning here in Atlanta. The varieties that I'm noticing this with are Matt's Wild Cherry and Yellow Pear. The other tomatoes (Cherokee Purple, Eva Purple Ball, & Green Zebra) don't seem much better. They all have the thin leaf issue going on to some extent...

I have sprouted seeds before in organic soil mix I bought at the store and had no issues in the past. I guess I should have stuck with what worked for me.

In any case, I'm hoping these thin leafed plants might be able to get better in the ground where there are nutrients. I have this funny feeling though that they might be stunted somehow-pretty mad at myself for not being practical and fixing what was not broken.

Thank you for your quick response, Dave.

Stella

How are your the growing conditions?
I find that low light intensity conditions can cause some plants to have thin leaves, but the leaves are wider/broader than normal. If this is the case, be careful hardening them.

dave, how did you make your quote italic?

ongodsmountain, I'm not digdirt, but he's a busy man solving everyone's problems, so I will butt in and answer you.

If you have Firefox, you can use the free BBCodeXtra add-on to italicize, underline, make things bold, and cross things out.

BBCodeXtra can be downloaded here:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/bbcodextra/

BBCodeXtra can also make urls clickable and post images (though I haven't done the latter in so long I don't remember how).

On this site (with BBCodeXtra installed), highlight the relevant text, right-click, and a box will open. Choose xhtmlXtra. Another box will open; click on whatever you want to do.

If it shows up correctly in Preview, that's what you'll see in your final post. If it doesn't show up correctly in Preview, you'll need to go back and figure out what you did wrong.
===

In the absence of BBCodeXtra, you can italicize the old-fashioned way by putting before what you want to italicize and after [but don't space after the ]. You can also use and for italics.

Underlining is and . Or and .

Bolding is and . Or and .

You can practice at the Test forum (linked at the bottom of the main page), and you'll find other html tags in some of the posts there.
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/test/

A whole new world awaits you!

I am in zone 5 and plant tomatoes, with WOWs in mid March to early April.

Of course, I have to start my own seeds because it's difficult to find good plants that early.

I do this because I tend to get a few fruit before the heat sets in and sometimes during the heat. Then the fall comes and the plants take off with fruit production. Before WOWs, I would rarely get fruit at all.

I plant in ground when I can stand being outside in a t-shirt. I use a 5 gallon bucket, with the bottom removed, as a initial support for the WOW. Mulch (minced leaves or straw) helps to insulate the plants as well. Where I live, it's nearly ALWAYS sunny, so I shoot for noonish planting, allowing time for the WOWs to heat after planting. I also create a bamboo teepee inside the WOW in case it collapses.

So this year, initial planting occurred 4/5/13. Family did the planting for me and I forgot to instruct the need for mulch - so no mulching occurred. Black plastic was applied between the rows. A week or 2 after planting, the temps dropped into the single digits - super odd for April here. I tied the WOW tops shut but lost maybe 25% of my plants. I would expect that shaded WOWs would be less effective, but the dead plants were scattered - some in the sunniest spots. So, I don't know why ALL of the plants didn't die. I suppose I could have added a tarp or a blanket, but the logistics didn't make sense, and I have extra plants.

I think that the 16 degree limit is pretty accurate.

What I have found with the WOWs is that planting too early is also not good. In 2012, I planted in early March and our spring was so mild, many of my plants were taller then the WOW (growing out the top) when a spring snow storm hit. It damaged the plants to the point where it took a really long time for recovery.

hello Colorado Steph, your post caught my eye as I have an aunt and a cousin, who are referred to as "Steph"

I am just a little south of you in Pueblo and we share similar nighttime temps and sometimes, if the skies clear, we drop below what Springs cools down to on occasion. I have a few tomatoes out along a protected side of my house and drape blankets over the plant at night if a cold snap is forecast. You could take the previous poster's advice and use your WOW's within a bottomless 5 gallon bucket and drape over an old blanket over the bucket at night. Of course you need to remember to remove the cover the next morning before the sun gets too hot.

And I have some Cherokee Purples that I am growing for some friends outside right now that if it gets too cold I just bring them into an unheated garage and they are looking good. If the weather gets cold again you could place the plants you have under a fluorescent light leaving an inch or two space between the bulb and plant top and do just fine. In fact the majority of the tomatoes I have growing are setup in a similar way in the garage. Even when it was snowing outside, the temp didn't get below 50 at night inside.

It never seems good to rush things to plant too early, as you take the risk of losing it all or getting mixed results. Once it warms up the plants will soon catch up.

Most container growers recommend feeding weekly. Using liquids is easier as you can just mix it up once a week when you water. others will use 1/4 to 1/2 strength mix each time they water.

Dave

I'd also like to mention I have potting soil, it's osmocote and it claims to feed for 6 months; would you advise I supply additional feed weekly, or should that be okay?

Notey

First night out on the town for my babies. Tonight 52 F and should be ok besides some rain on wed, but these plants need to get a job now and stop relying on me. :)

They have been outdoors during the day for 2-3 weeks (about 4-5 hours of direct sunlight the rest shade). The night temps were to low about 42-45 F so I brought them in.

A week longer then expected but ohwell. I also saved the other half of the bunch to be out after the rains on Wed. I will update the photo to see how they did.

Thanks again all for the responses and great advice.

- Mr Beno

They have been out for 2 nights and 3 days now straight. I went to my local nursery and bought Espoma Organic Bio-Tone Starter plus The guy said that this should be real good when I plant them in ground in my soil initialy? I will add compost as well to my ground soil if needed? My soil PH tested around 6.5-7.0.

I know they are long overdue to be planted and some are getting tall but no blossoms yet and they average 12" (except for the few Leggy ones). I plan on putting them out in a day or 2 depending on Monday/Tuesday nights weather forecast which is to drop to around 40-45 F at night.. I guess it is the point of no return. I could probably wait til after Tuesday when night gets back up to 55F.

The past two nights went down to about 50F with on and off showers the whole time. They have been getting gabout 4-5 hours of direct sunlight for nearly 2 weeks or more and the rest of the time in the shade on my porch.

New update photos below. (and the total time since germantion has been about 7 weeks.)

Thanks,
-Mr Beno

Don't misunderstand - you do start slow - an hour or 2 at a time - and you do go in and out for the first day or maybe 2 depending on how they tolerate it.

But once they have adjusted and doing ok - and you said they tolerated 6 hours out for a couple of days so that is adjusted - they stay out.

It isn't so much that there is conflicting info, just that no one can write specific details on how-to do it because there are too many variables that only you can know - size of container, type of plant, age of plant, amount of sun exposure on your property, your weather, your air temps, your wind direction and speed.

So each individual has to evaluate the differences between the in environment and the out environment and plan accordingly.

Mama has to cut the apron strings but she has to do it gradually and with thought and planning. Once done, she can't then turn around and tie Junior back up to her hip again. :)

Dave

That is exactly what I was doing, taking the kiddos out and back in....maybe that is many look a little stressed w lower leaves yellowed. And they r not being over watered. All the newer growth looks good.

Thanks for the great reply!

In regards to legginess, two things. Mostly I would attribute it to excessive warmth during the early stages of sproutling growth. Also, from what can be seen in these pictures the upwards growth is essentially the only new development since transplant...most of the plants are developing many buds/shoots that would otherwise be producing a nice bushy plant, but those growths just don't seem to have any juice. The tomatoes, eggplants, etc. were all short and stocky when they went into the ground. They've since dropped leaves and had dying growth removed.

The red mulch you see in the photos is ONLY at the base of the transplants. It was to discourage the squirrels that dig in the beds (they seem to avoid the mulch) and to protect the root system while the plants were taking hold. Even in early March here our sun can be VERY intense...the top two inches of soil can be hot to the touch in the late afternoon.

I have not yet fertilised, I was waiting to see if the transplants would take hold and take off, and then to properly diagnose the problem. Does nitrogen being locked up by the bark fines seem the most likely issue? This is supposed to be the absolute best garden vegetable mix in the city, so shouldn't everyone else be having the same problems as me? Instead they're all bragging that their tomatoes are 5 feet tall, using the same dirt from the same nursery, with the same amount of sun.

Do the seeds that immediately sprouted and then ceased further growth tell me anything? Is that because of the rains during week one of their emergence, or would the nitrogen have any impact? They should be getting all of their nutrients from their seed pod for a couple of weeks still, shouldn't they?

In the second photo you can see two squash seedlings above the tomato. They were approximately this size 6 days after sowing, and have appeared to be stuck there with no further growth for nearly two weeks now. The tips of their leaves are even starting to yellow, slightly.

I have some 10-10-10 granular on hand. Is that the way to go? Obviously I wouldn't give it to the seedlings; do they just need another week to see if they're waterlogged?

It's definitely not sunlight. I just took a look at my compost pile, located about 10yds from the beds except in full shade, and there are squash plants growing from it showing 10-20x the growth of the ones in the garden.

I grow about everything, and I'm quite a bit further north than she is but I'm sure she'll want something super easy if she's new to it and will have a new baby - which I get as I'm due to expel my own little parasite any second now. When I was still trying to be practical while planning I was going to just grow some Sweet Millions. One plant is plenty for a family of four, they're very pretty and they have more of a tomato-ey flavor than a lot of hybrid cherries.
Our Amish Pastes always do great, and even though they're a paste tomato, my family loves them fresh. Lemon Boy if she wants something a little different.
Mr. Stripey usually does really well for me too - it's pretty and my husband's favorite.
Those are the easiest that are still flavorful that I can think of for up here.

The University of Minnesota Extension Service has a tremendous amount of gardening info on their website. The link to recommended vegetables is below. The St. Paul Farmers Market recommendation is spot on.

Here is a link that might be useful: University of Minnesota Extension Service

Martha welcome to the Garden Web. You will more likely get an answer to your question if you start a new thread. This is the tomato forum. It would be helpful if you would enter your zone and location on your member page. Since I don't know where you live, I am going to suggest the Oklahoma forum. Go to the very bottom of the page where it says Post a message to the forum.

I buy heavy duty landscape cloth that is woven out of plastic. It lets the rain through. In the past I have used plastic with little holes for the rain to penetrate and was not happy with the results. What you did may not be so bad it depends on how water tight your cover is. The rain needs to get to the plants somehow. Others may know more - try the OK forum. You can also search landscape fabric in the search box and see what you get. I tried that and many people hate the landscape fabric I use. I don't cover mine and I move it around in my vegetable garden. It works for me the way I use it. I have not had good results with black plastic - two cons are ants like it because there is moisture either under it or on top and after a number of years it shows through the mulch and the sun breaks it up very ugly little pieces of black plastic looking like trash.

We have all made mistakes. I would not title your post dumb mistake. Think of something that describes your problem.

Re CRW cages and staking: when I made my cages many years ago the info said to cut the bottom wire and use those as legs to support the cages. I stick the cage in the ground and only once in several years have I had to add a post for extra support. Imagine this might not work in extremely windy areas. Try it and see. You can always add supporting poles or rebar later if needed.

That looks like nutrient deficiency to me. Provide them with some fertilizer. Get them into the ground as soon as you can. I have planted some tomatoes that looked worse than yours before. They make a dramatic turnaround once in the ground.

Kevin

A few days okay I gave them all a 1/4 dose of my seaweed fertilizer and have started to give them more natural light and have begun to harden them off. They look way more healthier and perky now.

Our greenhouse is almost done so hopefully they can be planted in there within the week - next year I'll know not to start them to early.

If you have a leggy plant, I certainly would trench them. One thing I have noticed about tomato plants grown too closely together so that the stem is rather bare, is that they tend to be a bit brittle, so use care when trenching so you don't break the stem. However, if you do break it and it is still attached, go ahead and bury it.

If my tomatoes aren't too leggy, I just dig the hole deeper with my post hole digger, err, have my husband dig it deeper. Actually, he and my son are so good at making me nice round deep holes that I frequently have to put some dirt back in the bottom so I can have some leaves above ground.

Betsy

I have never personally tried the trench method but there are experts on this board (and Dave is one) who swear by it. It makes sense too. For great tomato plants into the summer, root development is key. More roots = better plants.

Like Dave said, roots will develop all along the buried stem. I tried to plant mine extra deep this year to get the benefits of the extra rooting.

wertach - there are numerous micro-climates in the LA area.

Sunset Magazine lists 7 different ones. Mike in Huntington Beach (Sunset zone 24) is very different than mine in Glendora (Sunset zone 21) which is about 25 miles north
of him.

While the USDA lumps us all together, you can't really go by their map here in LA.

Looking good Mike and I hope it means that you got decent germination with the seeds I sent you as thanks for your red ribbed one you sent me, which is being grown in NC for seed production for all the many ways that I do share seeds with others. ( smile)

Carolyn

You mentioned that you know that tomatoes root to the side.
Did you realize they can send roots over three feet to all sides?

Here's a link to a fascinating article I got from Carolyn
years ago that talks about extensive studies of tomatoes.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato root development

Do any of you have pictures of the trellises/spacing?

Look at your weather forcast. If you are not going to be in the 30's for about the next 7 days then you can probably plant out without much fear of a frost. As noted, tomatoes do best in warm temps at night (60), but they can survive 40's at night just fine. As long as the temps don't freeze they can survive mid to high 30's too, though they may not like it. Here In the arid west, our night temps don't get up to 60's until July and August. All may and most of June our temps are below 60. But tomatoes grow great in May and June here. So go ahead and get them in the ground.

Look at your weather forcast. If you are not going to be in the 30's for about the next 7 days then you can probably plant out without much fear of a frost. As noted, tomatoes do best in warm temps at night (60), but they can survive 40's at night just fine. As long as the temps don't freeze they can survive mid to high 30's too, though they may not like it. Here In the arid west, our night temps don't get up to 60's until July and August. All may and most of June our temps are below 60. But tomatoes grow great in May and June here. So go ahead and get them in the ground.