16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

Thanks. I feel better! Aside from the tomatoes I the ones in the worst shape were the okra and the cucumbers. My eggplant was also not so hot, but not wilted. I brought them in already so hopefully no more damage.

They'll be fine, although it definitely was a setback. Take real good care of them for the rest of the way to get them going. Mine got zapped some last year after I put them out. Yours are very young though.

For Richard concerning pvc pipes for watering, here are 2 links. I suppose that his reference to a rock is for a cap on the pipe instead of a pvc cap.

http://www.thriftyfun.com/tf19058273.tip.html
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/how-to-make-your-tomato-plant-bigger

With respect to this thread and grooming tomatoes, it is just common sense, and even we geologists can figure it out. SOME grooming of tomatoes is beneficial as more energy is available for fruiting, but if too much is done then there is insufficient leaf area to produce vegetation and fruit growth. Also, removing some leaves and stems is in reality an injury to the plant and produces a reproductive response in it, which results in more flowering and fruiting. So groom judiciously, keep plants spaced sufficiently apart for adequate sunlight and water (pvc pipe?), prepare the soil well so roots can grow easily, and be sure to put seedlings as deep as possible for greatest root production. Now to the good stuff. Nutrition!

A retired physician here in Tucker, GA has published in our local free rag his tomato "secrets" which he acquired from another gentleman in Buford. In one season from 10 plants his production was 2281 tomatoes weighing 752 pounds. He used hybrids (I will grow ONLY heirlooms) consisting of 1 Parks Whopper, 5 Beefmasters, 2 Sweet 100's, and 2 Better Boys. Of course the Sweets being a cherry upped the number count and lowered the average weight considerably (0.32 lbs), but accounting for that my guess is that the average non-cherry plant yield would be 100-140 tomatoes averaging a pound each. I'd be happy with that any day.

This is what he does. He uses new soil every year, although I feel that this is optional, as the soil adjuncts should be sufficient after the first year. He digs holes 15X15 and fills with bagged topsoil mixed with potting soil and Natures Helper. I use just Natures helper and a little sandy loam I dig up from the woods (a former terraced farm) behind my townhome. With clay soils here the sand helps considerably. He then mixes in:
a) handful of 10-10-10
b) handful of lime
c) handful of Epsom Salt (critical, as tomatoes are magnesium hungry)
d) 2 handfuls cow manure
e) 2 tablespoons baking soda
After planting he covers the soil with pine bark nuggets to help keep the soil moist. At 3 week intervals he adds around each plant 2 handfuls 10-10-10, a handful Epsom Salt, and 2 tablespoons baking soda.

So after the first year of new soil and Natures Helper try just the a-e adjuncts and see what happens, especially if you do not wish to excavate many holes and have no place to put the resulting "used" soil. The method says that the soil is important, but I think that it is overemphasized after year one's conditioning.

This is "Dr Dan's Tomato Recipe and Method" from the February 2010 issue of Up Close and Personal in Tucker, and has been reprinted each year since. Dr L. Dan Johnson was shared this method by the late Mr Ralph Pass of Buford, GA, a former patient of his. A golfing buddy of Dr Johnson's told him that "Thank God you do not grow watermelons!"

I remember reading this thread six years ago.

Something which occurred to me on this reading was that kubotabx's unpruned tomato seems to be adjacent to a short (boxwood?) hedge (see the first photo in his June 14, 07 post).

I wonder if the hedge's root system was stealing some of the water and nutrients from the unpruned tomato, causing it to be initially smaller than the pruned plant (which was further from the hedge).

Really, there were a number of variables besides the pruning....

So why would one (say, Purple in Chicago :)) prefer to clone plants vs. just saving seed to start the following spring?

No reason far as I can see. Unless one has a heated greenhouse to grow or at least over-winter plants. trying to keep a rooted cutting alive till spring planting is a waste of time and effort IMO.

The main reason for rooting cuttings is to quickly have more plants at the proper planting times or to have some for a fall garden.

Dave

So that leaves me at determining how long it will take for a rooted cutting to set fruit, and see if I have enough time to get more out of them to even make it worth it. I'll do some research. Thanks for all the great tips and advice guys!

1/6 RL's could be a stray seed or could be a cross as you mentioned.

It might well depend on where you bought the seeds as to whether they do their own seed production, buy wholesale off the shelf or subcontract out for seed production.

John, if you got your KBX seeds in a trade then there's more of chance for a cross than anything else, as there is with any seed trades.

Go with the PL ones you have since PL is recessive to RL leaf form so they should be OK.

Carolyn

Thanks Carolyn. I got the 2012 seeds in a trade. What I planted this year are ones that I saved myself in 2012. I'll plant it and see what results.
John A

Thanks again, everybody! I think we successfully saved the still very young plants. We covered both the tomato bed and the pepper bed (and the strawberry bed, even - just to be safe) with old sheets draped over tomato cages to get them up off of the plants.

I'm really glad we took those precautions because I was surprised to see a pretty heavy frost when I went out to take them off this morning.

And Charlie, I've been patiently waiting like a good gardener, anxious to get plants in the ground this year, but not too early. I sure thought that tomato anxiety disease did not hit me this year, as late April is supposed to be the safe zone. Oh well, live and learn and watch the forecasts closer. :)

Hopefully that'll be the last of it for my southwestern corner of the state.

Keep us updated - the ones in the center of the photo looked pretty badly burned.

If I waited til lows were above 50 every night I'd be planting in June every year - though I had the past 2 years anyway. I usually set out tomatoes the last week of May (shoot for 25-28th) and peppers few days to a week later. But we've had 2 cold rainy Mays the past 2 years (though 2012 March was warm and the summer was hot and dry), looks like May will be colder than normal this year too so it'll probably be June again before I get the tomatoes out. I think I potted up 4 times last year waiting for good weather, and I finally started my cukes indoors. Might have to do that again this year too.

The temps have been all over the place lately - most of the year 10 degrees below normal but yesterday it was 10 degrees above normal (25 degrees warmer than the day before)!

Here is a link that might be useful: Summer forecast

I read that none of the tomato plants that you buy have not been genetically modified. Is this true?

Yes it is true. You cannot buy GMO plants or seeds.

Dave

Thank you for the response.

I would start with a 1/4 to 1/2 strength solution of your organic seaweed. They look nutrient deficient to me. When I do the initial transplant, assuming I am using a straight, basic potting mix without any fert in it, I start feeding a weak solution of fish/kelp, or seaweed fert, or Miracle Gro regular water soluble fert.

I am attaching some images of plants with nutrient deficient issues.

Susan

Here is a link that might be useful: nutritional deficiences in tomatos

Looks like a couple of problems. Definitely too purple which suggests a phosphorus deficency. The yellowing suggests owerwatering. I don't see a nitrogen lack because they are certainly green enough. Try to get a "little" phos. on them without overwatering.

This post was edited by edweather on Wed, Apr 24, 13 at 14:56

the disease affecting your tomato fruits is called radial cracking.

the disease affecting your tomato fruits is called radial cracking. you need to preventwide swings in moisture by even irrigation or mulching

This is my last pic. I have another question. I ordered a 6 shelve portable walk in green house. Can I put them in there for a while before I plant them outside. My frost date is May 01? Thank you Dave for your help.

This is my last pic

Assuming you'll be planting in the ground, what's the soil temperature where you'll be planting them?

How cold are your overnight temps at this point?

www.wunderground.com predicts the overnight low temps for the next week and a half (well, more or less; there's a lot of temperature variety in these mountains).

Avg. High: 60-65F
Avg Low: 45-50F

Soil Temp: 45-50F

Get them out of the seed starting mix. It is too fine to drain well in a larger container, it tends to compact and either stay to wet or be difficult to wet when it dries out completely.

Just be sure to use a soilless growing medium, not dirt from the yard or a bagged "garden soil" because it tends to compact in a pot and then it drains poorly and the tomato's roots will drown or suffocate and the plant will die. (Which is what I think is happening now.)

I don't think you need to feed them, since the nutrients in a regular growing medium should be sufficient to carry them the 8-10 before they are planted out into the garden.

I hope that helps.

Betsy

This post was edited by bets on Mon, Apr 1, 13 at 23:02

Funny, I thought I did everything right and a few of my leaves are beginning to yellow. The mix is excellent draining, but that doesnt mean that I'm still not possibly overwatering. Didn't think it was possible with a mega draining mix. Can't wait to get them outside.....no more than a week away. The next nice day they're going out! With protection of course, don't get nervous.

Watering isn't something that can be scheduled. It has too many variables affecting it - soil used, size of container, ambient air temps, air circulation in the area, root mass ratio to top growth, etc. etc. etc.

So depending on all those variables it may be daily, every other day, once a week, or whatever. Watering is done only when the plant needs it, not when we schedule it. :)

The grower has to learn to evaluate the need of the plant. You do that by

1) acknowledging that it is human nature to over-water so when in doubt - don't water, Remind yourself that the roots need to breathe even more than they need water so tell them today is breathing day.

2) accepting that plants are much more tolerant of under-watering than they are of over-watering,

3) knowing that more seedlings are killed by over-watering than by anything else

4) sticking your finger deep into the soil to check the moisture level deep down, not by surface appearance

5) bottom water - soak until the surface appears lightly damp then dump out whatever is left.

Of course all of this is moot when using fiber pots because they wick all the water out of the soil into the pot and then they dry out far too quickly. Effective watering when using them is almost impossible.

but I am pretty sure that was where the cotyledons were. It almost looks like a tiny cut there. The stem immediately increases after the mark to the size above the mark.

I disagree but only have the pics to go by. It is normal for the stem to "immediately increase after the mark" when it is damp off. In this case it is already discoloring further up the stem as well and there is interveinal discoloration on the next leaf up the stem too. But continue to monitor it. If the plant improves then I'm wrong. If it continues to fail then you will know for sure.

Fingers crossed for you. :)

Dave

Thank you, Dave!

The one pictured is the worst one, and there are a few more that have the same two marks on opposite sides of the stem. One of them has one mark 1/4" higher than the other one. I am sure you are right, but I am honestly hoping you are wrong. If I lose half of my plants, I will be seriously disappointed in June and July. There is always next year, I guess.

Tycoon and Tygress are the exact same tomato variety except one has nematode tolerance and the other does not.

Tygress is a Seminis variety and in the link below which yoju can cut and paste you'll find onelink where you canenter your country/state , etc, to find where seeds might be sold..

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&gs_rn=9&gs_ri=psy-ab&gs_mss=tygress%20t&cp=15&gs_id=25&xhr=t&q=tygress+tomato+seeds&es_nrs=true&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=tygress+tomato+&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45512109,d.dmQ&fp=7cce1b80136e3912&biw=1059&bih=393&bs=1

I;m not so sure I understand why both of these are considered rodeo varities, ahem, but you live in TX,possibly near San Antonio b/c there's a link in one of those Google searches to a newspaper article about bothof them,

I linked directly to Tycoon seeds below and as manyof the links state,the most expensive hybrid seeds around which I can't qjuite understandlooking at the tolerancegenes included and as onelink said, very similar to some of the BHN varieties.,

So not for me considering the alternatives.LOL

Hope that helps,

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Tycoon seeds

Carolyn
Thought this might interest you.
Every year experts from Texas A&M's AgriLife Extension and volunteers from the agencyâÂÂs Master Gardener association plant thousands of tomato plants. These annual tomato plantings are part of a research field trial to determine new adaptive tomato varieties that will grow well in Central Texas. The best tomato is selected from the various tomatoes tested and assessed during these trials and becomes the next Rodeo Tomato. Plants are offered for sale the following year during the San Antonio Stock Show and Rodeo, Sales of those plants help fund a Junior Master Gardener program and other youth gardening activities, along with horticulture scholarships.
Mike

Ok lots of good ideas here I'll try to do these things in the next couple days... On the temperature, the temp range for this week is from a low of 50 degrees to a high of 80 degrees, the previous weeks were more or less the same so if anything it's been too cold for them. The only thing weather wise that is notable is It was very windy for a few days.
That wire fence thing and those metal sheets on the ground are shelves I bought for cheap from the local borders bookstore when it went out of business. There's a lot of cats in the neighborhood and that's my overkill way of keeping them away from the plants. that and I'm trying to kill the crab grass surrounding the thing. I can open and close the wire fence like a door.
There is 3 tomato plants, one each of better boy, early girl, and a sungold. Id get a brandywine as ive heard good things but i dont think i have the room.
Anyhow I'll replant them deeper in the ground (should I go so far as to bury the bottom branches a little?) and put potting mix around them and start mulching them with either straw or wood chips. And ill start watering them by hand as well so the dirt gets more evenly wet.

**respectful moment of silence in memory of Border's**

As I understand it, wind increases evaporation. It will have stressed the plants.

A unique hinged cat-guard! Amazing.

should I go so far as to bury the bottom branches a little?

I've grown a lot of tomatoes, but I'm not an expert and I really don't know whether it would be better to re-plant the tomatoes lower or leave them and just mound up soil around them. You planted them a couple of weeks ago and they don't seem to have done much ... maybe wait to see if you get other opinions on that.

In any case, I don't think you have branches yet; I think those are compound leaves (the actual branch will grow in the angle where the petiole of the compound leaf -- what you're calling the branch -- attaches to the main stem). Above all, you don't want disease organisms from the soil to get onto the leaves, so if you bury the plants lower, it would be a good idea to remove the lowest leaves which touch the soil.

Unfortunately, Better Boy will get 8' tall, Early Girl about 7-8', and Sun Gold is reportedly a monster which will grow much larger. [Depends on weather, soil, and other conditions.] You'll see a lot of threads which discuss ways to support large plants which have been started in dinky cages.