16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
From your post it appears you would like to use a protective cover for your indeterminates as (autumn) first frost approaches. Around here we can sometimes get a few days of Sept frost, only to have autumn continue warm until late October.
For this reason I string-trellis my tomatoes with a hook knot atop; so that when risk of frost occurs I unfasten the vines and CAREFULLY place them on the ground wrapped in a sleeping bag until overnight frost clears. Then I place the strings back on their hooks. I know it sounds unorthodox and weird, but it works for me.
Yes, you have an excellet chance of waking them up.
I don't know how many seeds you have of each variety, but I wouldn't even bother to give them any special treatment, just double sow and sow no less than 10 seeds/variety.
Or maybe just an overnight soak in water with a couple of small pinches of blue stuff( Miracle Grow or Peters, etc) or if organic a few drops of seaweed or fish emulsion, undiluted.
Those preps have lots of nitrate ion which is known to help with germination.Stir from time to time since older seeds are usually dehydrated and you want as many as possible to sink.
THen double sow if you have enough seeds.
Carolyn
I just had sucess with some seeds from 1992. My late fil was an avid gardener and always saved his own seeds. He moved to ariz in 89 or so and continued to grow tomatoes for a while. When I helped move him back to Utah in 99, I found some seeds he had saved in a desk drawer. I labeled them and put them in the deep freeze with my seeds.
I tried to germinate these seeds before with no luck. But this year I dumped about 45 to 60 seeds in the 3 inch starter pot and I am proud to announce that I have at least 6 seedlings now.
They started coming up on wednesday. I would like to transplant them to individual pots and grow them on. I want to make gifts of the extras to family members. They were started in a soilless grow mix.
When should I try to move them to individual pots? Do I wait for a second set of leaves or just wait and see if any others are going to germinate?
It may recover but I'd put it out of its misery and replant. You'll lose precious time and this is a variety prone to stop producing in hot summer weather. In the meantime you should do a bit of investigation work so it doesn't reoccur.
Prudens purple seems to germinate OK for me but assuming that you planted all seed at same depth in a similar environment- the most likely problem for poorer germination is older or mishandled seed.
Sometimes poor germination just happens and it can occur with expensive or inexpensive seed. The one thing I actually did this year with a hybrid variety after only 16% germ. was call and request more seed (seed co. omitted ). They were eager to replace seed at no cost with a different seed lot. With Prudens Purple I would just order from a second source.
digdirt - I did a Google search prior to planting which brought me to the page that you linked. I dont remember it being very specific on how far to allow true leaves to develop before potting up but I will reread it. I will certainly check the forum that you recommended. Thank you for responding.
I dont remember it being very specific on how far to allow true leaves to develop before potting up but I will reread it.
Not really a specific time. It depends in great part on how you germinate the seeds - cell packs, yogurt cups, plug trays, etc.
For example if you germinated 20-25 seeds in one yogurt cup or 4-5 in one Jiffy pellet as many do then you would likely need to transplant them before any true leaves developed. You want them separated before the roots get too badly tangled.
If you only do 1 seed in each cell in a cell pack then they can wait until they are about the size in the "Potting up" photo on the FAQ I linked - the true leaves are still pretty small.
Ultimately it boils down to transplanting them as soon as you are comfortable working with them IMO. I transplant all mine before any true leaf development. But I do staged transplanting - from bulk seeded trays to 6 packs to 4" pots.
Dave
As missing said above there are both determinate AND indeterminate varieties of Rutgers available as seed. I grow both every year. We need to know which variety you have to answer your question correctly.
As to the pruning to a various number of stems (assuming the plant develops them), that is your choice. Pruning is strictly optional, not required for any reason, and does reduce production. But I will point out that if the plants you have are the determinate variety you do not prune determinates, only indeterminates, or you may get no tomatoes.
So while I agree with the others and never prune my plants regardless of the type, it's not as if someone will come to arrest you if you choose to. :)
Dave
The "first" ones I hope to plant I haven't gotten yet. I plan to buy some plants when they come in hopefully over the weekend. Meanwhile I started germinating some seeds for the next batch on Sunday and they started coming up today. They are from Ferry-Morse and the bag says they're indeterminate. I'm in the Atlanta, GA area.
Last year I got a real late start and is the first year I grew tomatoes. They were going wild with vines and had small tomatoes, so I trimmed them down. The tomatoes still seemed small so I trimmed out some pretty large vines, but they still had about six or more vines at the end of it all. The tomatoes got noticably larger though, so that's what is shaping my thinking so far. They were Better Boys, which I guess are less determinate than an indeterminate Rutgers? But even if so, by how much?
Wire coat hanger with a crook bent at the top (you can get three markers from one hanger). Put tape (I use white duct tape) across the main wire and over to the bottom of the crook. Use your favorite pen to mark with. These markers can range from 8" tall to 18" tall depending on how you cut them.
Cottonseed meal is a good Nitrogen source (as protein) but the plants need the Nitrate form of Nitrogen. I would suggest you wait a while for soil microbes to break-down the protein unless you are willing to use a standard fertilizer source for faster response. In the meantime the plants appear to be holding in there.
Thanks Dave. Heating mat is now off and I'm wating to see if they recover. Now, they are showing signs of leave burn, where the tips of the leafs are burning. The older leaves are also now turning yellow and, I'm assuming will fall off very soon. I think I may need to just start over, but I dont want this issue to occur again. That is why it is important for me to figure out what this problem is!!! Thank you Dave, Mule and Suncity for your time patience and advice. It is very appreciated.
Nate
As Mule said the black spots aren't all that uncommon and aren't the real problem. They are just engorged hair follicles for the most part from the stressed transpiration.
IMO the fertilizing regimen is the issue - way too much - given the leaf edges in the pic that were already showing signs of burn.
Not only do young seedlings not need all that, they won't tolerate all that. The so-called "organic potting mixes" alone have been known to cause N burn issues because they insist on including things like chicken manure. And then to that you added all the other stuff. Why all the heavy feeding?
Established plants, fine. Young seedlings, no. They can easily be grown to transplant size with no supplementation at all. Not that it is ideal, but it is possible and done by many with no problems. So I'd suggest laying off all the fertilizer stuff with the next batch if you are going to be using that same mix.
And if you are going to use vermicompost tea then it has to be WELL diluted to almost no color to avoid burning.
Add to that the heat and you end up with highly stressed seedlings with fried, stiff, curled under edges that are working overtime to transpire.
Don't get so caught up in all the "organic" label marketing hype ("organic seeds" and "organic seed starting mix", etc.) that you forget that organics can kill plants too when improperly used.
Are these plants done for? No, not IMO. But I'd transplant them into fresh potting mix - preferably a standard one with no fertilizers - and give them some time to recover. You'll lose some leaves but the plants as a whole should recover.
JMO
Dave
I have grown Granny Cantrell many times in recent years and they almost always trick me into thinking they are going to be PL. The first few true leaves might look like a little mitten, but as they get older they start putting out RL leaves.
Dave had it right -- just wait a bit.
Hope you like the Grannys -- one of my favorites.
I'd agree about the waiting if it weren't for the fact that the original poster said that plants with RL and plants with PL leaves were seen at the same time:
(I am growing six granny cantrell seedlings from tomatofest seeds. The first set of true leaves have grown and 3 are cleary potato leaf and 3 are regular leaf. Is it too soon to judge the true leaf type? If not, do I keep only the RL plants and assume they are the real deal, or dump them all and get new seeds? Thanks for the help.)
And then Gary Ibsen came back and said that the variety could be either PL or RL, which I indicated above that I couldn't find folks who said it was PL, gave the link to Tania's site and also checked several SSE Yearbook listings and couldn't find anyone who said PL.
Pesonally I don't make the call on a new variety others have not grown until the second set of true leaves appear..
Gotta love tomatoes and their traits, LOL
Carolyn