16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

As missing said above there are both determinate AND indeterminate varieties of Rutgers available as seed. I grow both every year. We need to know which variety you have to answer your question correctly.

As to the pruning to a various number of stems (assuming the plant develops them), that is your choice. Pruning is strictly optional, not required for any reason, and does reduce production. But I will point out that if the plants you have are the determinate variety you do not prune determinates, only indeterminates, or you may get no tomatoes.

So while I agree with the others and never prune my plants regardless of the type, it's not as if someone will come to arrest you if you choose to. :)

Dave

The "first" ones I hope to plant I haven't gotten yet. I plan to buy some plants when they come in hopefully over the weekend. Meanwhile I started germinating some seeds for the next batch on Sunday and they started coming up today. They are from Ferry-Morse and the bag says they're indeterminate. I'm in the Atlanta, GA area.

Last year I got a real late start and is the first year I grew tomatoes. They were going wild with vines and had small tomatoes, so I trimmed them down. The tomatoes still seemed small so I trimmed out some pretty large vines, but they still had about six or more vines at the end of it all. The tomatoes got noticably larger though, so that's what is shaping my thinking so far. They were Better Boys, which I guess are less determinate than an indeterminate Rutgers? But even if so, by how much?

Wire coat hanger with a crook bent at the top (you can get three markers from one hanger). Put tape (I use white duct tape) across the main wire and over to the bottom of the crook. Use your favorite pen to mark with. These markers can range from 8" tall to 18" tall depending on how you cut them.

I write the names on surveyor's tape with an industrial sharpie and tie the strip to the top of my cages.
One roll of tape will makes countless labels that last all season.
The tape is available at most any hardware or home improvement store for cheap.

Well thanks for the help!
-TomAndJerryGardener

The collar rot phase of early blight can effect seedlings. It would be present from contaminated seeds or grow materials (soil and maybe pots).

There are a number of other seed transmitted diseases that could show up from contaminated seeds.

I'm living in New Orleans and only 4 of the 12 plants are showing this. I've dealt with powdery mildew before and this is not the same.

Cottonseed meal is a good Nitrogen source (as protein) but the plants need the Nitrate form of Nitrogen. I would suggest you wait a while for soil microbes to break-down the protein unless you are willing to use a standard fertilizer source for faster response. In the meantime the plants appear to be holding in there.

Thanks Dave. Heating mat is now off and I'm wating to see if they recover. Now, they are showing signs of leave burn, where the tips of the leafs are burning. The older leaves are also now turning yellow and, I'm assuming will fall off very soon. I think I may need to just start over, but I dont want this issue to occur again. That is why it is important for me to figure out what this problem is!!! Thank you Dave, Mule and Suncity for your time patience and advice. It is very appreciated.

Nate

As Mule said the black spots aren't all that uncommon and aren't the real problem. They are just engorged hair follicles for the most part from the stressed transpiration.

IMO the fertilizing regimen is the issue - way too much - given the leaf edges in the pic that were already showing signs of burn.

Not only do young seedlings not need all that, they won't tolerate all that. The so-called "organic potting mixes" alone have been known to cause N burn issues because they insist on including things like chicken manure. And then to that you added all the other stuff. Why all the heavy feeding?

Established plants, fine. Young seedlings, no. They can easily be grown to transplant size with no supplementation at all. Not that it is ideal, but it is possible and done by many with no problems. So I'd suggest laying off all the fertilizer stuff with the next batch if you are going to be using that same mix.

And if you are going to use vermicompost tea then it has to be WELL diluted to almost no color to avoid burning.

Add to that the heat and you end up with highly stressed seedlings with fried, stiff, curled under edges that are working overtime to transpire.

Don't get so caught up in all the "organic" label marketing hype ("organic seeds" and "organic seed starting mix", etc.) that you forget that organics can kill plants too when improperly used.

Are these plants done for? No, not IMO. But I'd transplant them into fresh potting mix - preferably a standard one with no fertilizers - and give them some time to recover. You'll lose some leaves but the plants as a whole should recover.

JMO

Dave

missingtheobvious points made the most sense.

Dont agree with the Cal Davis comment. Communication is part speaker/writer and part listener/reader. That doesn't mean one is more right than the other, just that not everyone sees the same things the same way or comprehends the way they are being told. I see it as more of an effort to "show" than to "tell".

That anatomy page was written as an undergrad class project during the relative infancy of image based web browsing. It really does reflect that time period (1995-1996) when very little good tomato information could be found on the web especially information containing "in-line" pictures. Its audience seems to be directed towards those with specific knowledge of the botanical/anatomical terms used (ie college students of biological sciences).

Thanks again, everyone! That 3 leaf stem/flower truss thing was new to me, and that will be very helpful. Though, I still plan not to prune anything ... too complicated! ; >

The plants look real good to me. I would just pinch off the bottom leaves and fill the solo cups to the brim with additional potting soil. Then wait until you are sure of the temp before planting out.

I'll take some of that 70 degrees!

I'd check your weather history to determine average low temps. Soil temp can be improved with a mulch. I'd avoid black plastic though. It creates anaerobic bacteria and chokes the good things in the soil.

Some of that grow cloth would easily get you through the nights. However if you do create a temporary structure leave them in it before you place them in the ground just in case some really bad weather comes so you can still take them in the house.

I imagine after 2 weeks they are used to the sun which is good. They need to slowly get used to the moon if you will.

They look good but how many hours of sun light are in a day right now? 12. Tomatoes will grow slowly until they get more light.

TomAndJerryGardener, with the next batch of seedlings (because the ones you have now will not survive to give you fruit):

Throw out the infected seed-starting mix. Either discard the pots/containers or scrub them with a weak bleach solution to kill the damping-off organisms.

If the pots/containers you're using don't have drain-holes, add some. That will allow excess water to drain out of the mix.

Keep the pots or cups in a shallow dish, tray, foam or plastic take-out container, houseplant saucer, etc. (so water from the drain-holes doesn't get on the windowsill or furniture). To water, pour half an inch of water into the tray ("watering from the bottom"). After 10-20 minutes, pour off the water (your seedlings shouldn't be standing in water as that encourages fungal diseases). Mist the top of the soil occasionally if seeds are still sprouting.

[If your seed-starting mix is mostly peat moss: When peat dries out, it shrinks away from the sides of the pots and actually repels water. If you water from the top, the water will just run down between the peat and the side of the the pot -- but the peat will stay dry. To get it wet again and save your seedlings, you'll need to let the pots stand in water longer than 20 minutes (the exact amount of time depends just how dry the peat has become). When the peat is thoroughly damp, be sure to empty the remaining water from the tray.]

Tomato seedlings will go to great lengths to get closer to the Sun -- literally, they will stretch till they're 3-4" or taller while they have only their original dicotyledons (the seed leaves). That stretching is detrimental to the health of the plant.

Thanks I bought some new seeds at a Burpee seed stand. This time I'm using miracle grow seed starter. Hopefully this time it will be disease free and can I keep the non-infected plants. Only three or four plants got the disease out of the original 25.
-TomAndJerryGardener

zornitzayoung, as you probably know, suckers are the branches of the tomato plant.

Some people will tell you that suckers don't bear fruit: that's not true. Suckers on an indeterminate plant put out three leaf branches, then a flower truss, then continue with that pattern till frost (same pattern as the main stem, though IIRC the main stem doesn't put out its first flower truss until the root system is large enough, which is after more than three leaf trusses).

Yes, growing the sucker uses up some of the plant's energy: but the sucker's leaves then make more energy for the plant.

You may not find many in the U.S. who put two plants in one hole and prune each to the main stem, but you will find plenty who advocate pruning a single plant to the main stem (as my grandfather and mother did). I think at least half the growing advice on the Internet takes that position, and many repeat the notion that suckers don't bear flowers or fruit!

I would credit your mother's success to good gardening, good soil, good weather, and lack of disease organisms.

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sunnibel, yeah, I've wondered ... but who knows for certain.

She says that by removing the suckers the plant puts its energy into producing fruit versus growing more branches and leaves, and when you have only one main stem you can put two plant in the same hole. She swears by it and her yields are enormous. She lives in Europe.

She probably learned all that from her parents and grandparents and back for several generations because no one knew any better. And she's happy with it so isn't going to change her beliefs or even agree to try something new. It is a waste of time to try to tell her.

However that does NOT mean that it is best or even true - it isn't - just that it believed by some. And it does not justify, given all the overwhelming research and evidence to the contrary, that her method should be passed on or used by modern growers. They should not.

As my Mama used to say, "just because someone else jumps off the bridge does that mean you have to do it too?"

So it's your choice how you plant your tomatoes - Mom's way or the better way. But I sure wouldn't encourage others to use Mom's way.

Dave

Naw Tim - see first post Whether or not it would "transfer to the whole plant"? No, given the survival requirements for that particular bacteria.

Dave

Thank you for all the answers. I decided to mist them with the 1:10 bleach solution :)

In case anyone's not familiar with the breaker stage, here are a couple of charts which show the different stages of ripening.

Old chart:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg0813253711243.html

Old chart slightly smaller here:

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New chart:
http://www.lagorio.com/assets/pdf/lagorio-tomato-guide.pdf
[Firefox pointed out that this did not open in a clean format, and offered to open it in Adobe instead: luckily, that version came up without errors.]

There are many varieties that seldom split. Some seed catelogs like Johnny's will indicate in the description if the variety is more resistant (less prone) to splitting. Just beware- some don't split because the skin is as tough as shoe leather.

Thanks for the reminder, ryse! I tend to over think things, so I needed that reminder. The leaf got worse, so I just pulled it off the plant and it looks fine.

If you are still concerned, you could just pinch off that little damaged leaf. The plant would be fine. I do however recommend that you begin to slowly introduce your plants to natural sunlight, but be very carful. Plants grown under grow lights will need to be hardened off by introducing sunlight a little at a time, slowly increasing the duration. You will probably experience at least some sun scald. But stick with it your plants will make it fine.

Beardie, you needs cats. (Heck, everybody needs cats.)

Just be sure to get fierce ex-barn cats and leave them with their mother long enough for her to teach them the killing bite.

And / or stock up on .22 ammo.

Dennis

P.S. Man was granted dominion over the rodents of the earth - and of the trees. So feel not guilty.

Squirels are not innocent little varmits, about 5 years back we had a family of squirrels living above our kitchen, they got in through the deck and week after week would here more noise. The only way to remove them safely and to not hurt the animal was a "Hartz Trap" Back then it cost about $30 but worth it.

My father and I trapped about 6-8 of the family of squirrels with 2 of the Hartz traps over a week of time using peanut butter and apples.

Ironicly we drove them to New Jersey because I learned that squirrels have a good memory of coming back and can't swim (this advice was from an officer from saving wild animals ). I say New Jersey because I live near the border of Trenton.

God help anysquirrel this year with my garden, my 2 traps will be ready to safely remove them to NJ again while growing Jersey tomatoes and other crops :)