16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

missingtheobvious points made the most sense.

Dont agree with the Cal Davis comment. Communication is part speaker/writer and part listener/reader. That doesn't mean one is more right than the other, just that not everyone sees the same things the same way or comprehends the way they are being told. I see it as more of an effort to "show" than to "tell".

That anatomy page was written as an undergrad class project during the relative infancy of image based web browsing. It really does reflect that time period (1995-1996) when very little good tomato information could be found on the web especially information containing "in-line" pictures. Its audience seems to be directed towards those with specific knowledge of the botanical/anatomical terms used (ie college students of biological sciences).

Thanks again, everyone! That 3 leaf stem/flower truss thing was new to me, and that will be very helpful. Though, I still plan not to prune anything ... too complicated! ; >

The plants look real good to me. I would just pinch off the bottom leaves and fill the solo cups to the brim with additional potting soil. Then wait until you are sure of the temp before planting out.

I'll take some of that 70 degrees!

I'd check your weather history to determine average low temps. Soil temp can be improved with a mulch. I'd avoid black plastic though. It creates anaerobic bacteria and chokes the good things in the soil.

Some of that grow cloth would easily get you through the nights. However if you do create a temporary structure leave them in it before you place them in the ground just in case some really bad weather comes so you can still take them in the house.

I imagine after 2 weeks they are used to the sun which is good. They need to slowly get used to the moon if you will.

They look good but how many hours of sun light are in a day right now? 12. Tomatoes will grow slowly until they get more light.

TomAndJerryGardener, with the next batch of seedlings (because the ones you have now will not survive to give you fruit):

Throw out the infected seed-starting mix. Either discard the pots/containers or scrub them with a weak bleach solution to kill the damping-off organisms.

If the pots/containers you're using don't have drain-holes, add some. That will allow excess water to drain out of the mix.

Keep the pots or cups in a shallow dish, tray, foam or plastic take-out container, houseplant saucer, etc. (so water from the drain-holes doesn't get on the windowsill or furniture). To water, pour half an inch of water into the tray ("watering from the bottom"). After 10-20 minutes, pour off the water (your seedlings shouldn't be standing in water as that encourages fungal diseases). Mist the top of the soil occasionally if seeds are still sprouting.

[If your seed-starting mix is mostly peat moss: When peat dries out, it shrinks away from the sides of the pots and actually repels water. If you water from the top, the water will just run down between the peat and the side of the the pot -- but the peat will stay dry. To get it wet again and save your seedlings, you'll need to let the pots stand in water longer than 20 minutes (the exact amount of time depends just how dry the peat has become). When the peat is thoroughly damp, be sure to empty the remaining water from the tray.]

Tomato seedlings will go to great lengths to get closer to the Sun -- literally, they will stretch till they're 3-4" or taller while they have only their original dicotyledons (the seed leaves). That stretching is detrimental to the health of the plant.

Thanks I bought some new seeds at a Burpee seed stand. This time I'm using miracle grow seed starter. Hopefully this time it will be disease free and can I keep the non-infected plants. Only three or four plants got the disease out of the original 25.
-TomAndJerryGardener

zornitzayoung, as you probably know, suckers are the branches of the tomato plant.

Some people will tell you that suckers don't bear fruit: that's not true. Suckers on an indeterminate plant put out three leaf branches, then a flower truss, then continue with that pattern till frost (same pattern as the main stem, though IIRC the main stem doesn't put out its first flower truss until the root system is large enough, which is after more than three leaf trusses).

Yes, growing the sucker uses up some of the plant's energy: but the sucker's leaves then make more energy for the plant.

You may not find many in the U.S. who put two plants in one hole and prune each to the main stem, but you will find plenty who advocate pruning a single plant to the main stem (as my grandfather and mother did). I think at least half the growing advice on the Internet takes that position, and many repeat the notion that suckers don't bear flowers or fruit!

I would credit your mother's success to good gardening, good soil, good weather, and lack of disease organisms.

===
sunnibel, yeah, I've wondered ... but who knows for certain.

She says that by removing the suckers the plant puts its energy into producing fruit versus growing more branches and leaves, and when you have only one main stem you can put two plant in the same hole. She swears by it and her yields are enormous. She lives in Europe.

She probably learned all that from her parents and grandparents and back for several generations because no one knew any better. And she's happy with it so isn't going to change her beliefs or even agree to try something new. It is a waste of time to try to tell her.

However that does NOT mean that it is best or even true - it isn't - just that it believed by some. And it does not justify, given all the overwhelming research and evidence to the contrary, that her method should be passed on or used by modern growers. They should not.

As my Mama used to say, "just because someone else jumps off the bridge does that mean you have to do it too?"

So it's your choice how you plant your tomatoes - Mom's way or the better way. But I sure wouldn't encourage others to use Mom's way.

Dave

Naw Tim - see first post Whether or not it would "transfer to the whole plant"? No, given the survival requirements for that particular bacteria.

Dave

Thank you for all the answers. I decided to mist them with the 1:10 bleach solution :)

In case anyone's not familiar with the breaker stage, here are a couple of charts which show the different stages of ripening.

Old chart:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg0813253711243.html

Old chart slightly smaller here:

===

New chart:
http://www.lagorio.com/assets/pdf/lagorio-tomato-guide.pdf
[Firefox pointed out that this did not open in a clean format, and offered to open it in Adobe instead: luckily, that version came up without errors.]

There are many varieties that seldom split. Some seed catelogs like Johnny's will indicate in the description if the variety is more resistant (less prone) to splitting. Just beware- some don't split because the skin is as tough as shoe leather.

Thanks for the reminder, ryse! I tend to over think things, so I needed that reminder. The leaf got worse, so I just pulled it off the plant and it looks fine.

If you are still concerned, you could just pinch off that little damaged leaf. The plant would be fine. I do however recommend that you begin to slowly introduce your plants to natural sunlight, but be very carful. Plants grown under grow lights will need to be hardened off by introducing sunlight a little at a time, slowly increasing the duration. You will probably experience at least some sun scald. But stick with it your plants will make it fine.

Beardie, you needs cats. (Heck, everybody needs cats.)

Just be sure to get fierce ex-barn cats and leave them with their mother long enough for her to teach them the killing bite.

And / or stock up on .22 ammo.

Dennis

P.S. Man was granted dominion over the rodents of the earth - and of the trees. So feel not guilty.

Squirels are not innocent little varmits, about 5 years back we had a family of squirrels living above our kitchen, they got in through the deck and week after week would here more noise. The only way to remove them safely and to not hurt the animal was a "Hartz Trap" Back then it cost about $30 but worth it.

My father and I trapped about 6-8 of the family of squirrels with 2 of the Hartz traps over a week of time using peanut butter and apples.

Ironicly we drove them to New Jersey because I learned that squirrels have a good memory of coming back and can't swim (this advice was from an officer from saving wild animals ). I say New Jersey because I live near the border of Trenton.

God help anysquirrel this year with my garden, my 2 traps will be ready to safely remove them to NJ again while growing Jersey tomatoes and other crops :)

First they need separate containers. The Parks Whopper alone will eventually take over that lone barrel. That is a good size for 1 plant, not 2 or 3.

Then, if we assume your Dad's variety is an open-pollinated one (non-hybrid) and since the PW and the Bonnie's Original are both hybrids, yes you may get some cross-pollination.

Move Dad's plant away from the other two as much as possible and read the FAQ here on how to prevent cross-pollination by bagging some of its blooms to keep the seeds true.

Of course if Dad's is also a hybrid then it is a moot question anyway.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: FAQ on preventing crossing

Will I get a different tomato from the seeds that are produced from the fruit due to cross pollination?

If you're asking whether the plant grown from Dad's 2012 tomato will yield tomatoes just like that one: It depends whether Dad's plant was hybrid or open-pollinated. Do you know the variety name?

But if Dad's tomato was an open-pollinated variety and that particular fruit had been cross-pollinated with pollen from another variety on his farm, the tomatoes you get this summer might be quite different from the fruit you ate last year.

In any case, cross-pollination only affects the plants grown from the seeds of the fruit. So the fruit you'll get from Dad's plant this summer will all be true to the genes in that plant, regardless whether those flowers are pollinated with pollen from that plant or cross-pollinated with pollen from your Bonnie Original or Improved Park's Whopper or a neighbor's tomato. However, when you're talking about plants grown next year from the seeds of your 2013 fruit, it depends on whether those particular flowers are cross-pollinated.

I definitely would not bother potting them up.
For fertilizer you can use what you have, as long as it has nitrogen. Other natural fertilizer options include bloodmeal, fish emulsion, manure tea and worm casting tea.
When transplanting them out, you'll want to clip off some of the lower leaves and trench them in good soil.
Like missingtheobvious said, you'll want to start them in shade and very gradually expose them to direct sunlight. But you'll also want to keep them out of strong wind. Those big leaves are very soft and wind will chew them up, and stems can get crimped at the base seriously compromising the quality of the plant.
Below is a link with a diagram on trenching leggy tomato seedlings.

Here is a link that might be useful: Trenching Leggy Tomato Seedlings

Use these two weeks to start gradually hardening them off. Really shelter them from wind since they are so leggy.

BTW, I had a lab for 16 years and her name was Harleylove. She was as fast as a Harley and we loved her dearly.

Thanks Dave for all the info ..I really appreciate it .I got most of my repotting done today ....Ill be sure to check out the fertilizer threads in a few weeks . Sooo excited first seedlings for me :)

Hi there, Digginlife.
Miracle potting mix moisture control specs from Home Depot:

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/outdoors/landscaping-supplies/scotts/moisture-control-potting-mix-64-qt-53930.html

"...the potting mix continues to feed your plants for up to 6 months. MicroMax nutrients help grow hearty, vigorous plants."

Sounds like no fertilizer needed.

Ain't life great (and delicious) when things work out right? Even when we have to worry and work extra hard to make it happen. :)

Dave

oh, I didn't have a new message notification... just saw your reply Dave, yes, life is great and I am so happy I didn't give up after the disaster that was last year!! :D

there are a few clusters of green tomatoes till but sadly they are all pretty small compared to this first flush of tomatoes I got. But so long as they still have that flavor I wil be happy till their end! :D

I never thought of this! I'm doing the square foot gardening method and am growing different heirlooms and hybrids only 1 ft from each other. I hope they don't cross pollinate :/

Good FAQ here on how to prevent cross-pollination. Since tomatoes are primarily self-pollinating the crossing is minimal.

So it is only an issue if you insist on 100% seed purity. If you do then you will have to bag some of the trusses on the heirloom to prevent crossing.

Since most of us routinely grow a mix of hybrids and heirlooms we don't worry about it and save seeds anyway. That's unless trading seeds. Then purity is more important.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: FAQ - Preventing cross pollination