16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
I definitely would not bother potting them up.
For fertilizer you can use what you have, as long as it has nitrogen. Other natural fertilizer options include bloodmeal, fish emulsion, manure tea and worm casting tea.
When transplanting them out, you'll want to clip off some of the lower leaves and trench them in good soil.
Like missingtheobvious said, you'll want to start them in shade and very gradually expose them to direct sunlight. But you'll also want to keep them out of strong wind. Those big leaves are very soft and wind will chew them up, and stems can get crimped at the base seriously compromising the quality of the plant.
Below is a link with a diagram on trenching leggy tomato seedlings.
Here is a link that might be useful: Trenching Leggy Tomato Seedlings
Hi there, Digginlife.
Miracle potting mix moisture control specs from Home Depot:
"...the potting mix continues to feed your plants for up to 6 months. MicroMax nutrients help grow hearty, vigorous plants."
Sounds like no fertilizer needed.
oh, I didn't have a new message notification... just saw your reply Dave, yes, life is great and I am so happy I didn't give up after the disaster that was last year!! :D
there are a few clusters of green tomatoes till but sadly they are all pretty small compared to this first flush of tomatoes I got. But so long as they still have that flavor I wil be happy till their end! :D
Good FAQ here on how to prevent cross-pollination. Since tomatoes are primarily self-pollinating the crossing is minimal.
So it is only an issue if you insist on 100% seed purity. If you do then you will have to bag some of the trusses on the heirloom to prevent crossing.
Since most of us routinely grow a mix of hybrids and heirlooms we don't worry about it and save seeds anyway. That's unless trading seeds. Then purity is more important.
Dave
Here is a link that might be useful: FAQ - Preventing cross pollination
Yeah once you encourage a good population to develop they are almost impossible to eradicate. And none of those "home remedies" work.
If you have any Bt in any form it, mixed with water and poured on the soil works. Order Mosquito Dunks on line and you'll get them sooner that going to town.
Fungus gnats aren't automatic, aren't a given, they require certain conditions that WE give them. So you will need to change your watering habits drastically and set up fans in the area to help eliminate them. Alternative transplant your plants into fresh soil and containers that aren't over-watered and pitch all the old potting mix outside.
Dave
Dave's Mosquito Dunks suggestion is a good one. BTi (Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis) is the only thing I have found effective in really getting rid of fungus gnats. BTi is available in Mosquito Dunks, Mosquito Bits, Gnatrol, and Knock Out Gnats. It kills the fungus gnat larvae but is safe for people and pets. If you decide to use the dunks, soak a disk in a gallon of water overnight, then remove the disk and use the water on your plants. Do this every 3-4 days for a few weeks. You can re-use the disks.
Paula
Found this info on another board we can't link to:
From Territorial 2002 catalog:
Ultra-Early: 1100 heat units (=GDD)
Extra-Early: about 1300 heat units
Early: up to 1500 heat units
With that you could pull up the DTM on several varieties and get a rough comparison.
Then found this site for NM that lets you pick location within state and it will give you the cumulative GDD for that area for the year you pick. ie 2012 in Alamogordo broken down by months.
Dave
Here is a link that might be useful: IPM Models Weather Data
Sorry if consecutive posts are against the rules, but I did not see Dave's last post before I wrote my response.
They are not peat pots, I used natural paper to make my own "cups" perhaps you might call them. They contain less soil than large store bought pots, so perhaps those concerns are not valid? I just thought I'd mention it. Thanks man!
Ed, no, I'll do it here since you asked here, but right now I simply don't have the time to go fetch those links again for you.
Those elsewhere already know, or many do, the Johnson and Stokes connection to Red Brandywine, but your choice as to what you want to do. ( smile)
Carolyn
Carolyn thanks. Ok, no problem. Don't sweat it. I wasn't extremely interested. Just thought it was odd for someone to refer to it by that name. Thanks. Ed
I only posted it to the other site so the response might get a wider audience.
Hi. The entire plant was (and is) under 4' when I "decapitated" it. I do have two longer suckers, which are now as long as branches, but it is difficult to see from the picture. One of the lower sucker branches is 6" taller than the top of the main stem. At this point, I have only pruned the very bottom, suckers and branches, off the plant and the top of the main stem. I may have to trim that lower sucker branch that is taller than the main stem but I am waiting on that.
The pot is a 5 gallon bucket. I have two flower trusses and the beginnings of 1 tomato growing at this point.
I admit the plant is a little Charlie Brown Christmas tree looking since I have been growing it from seed in front of a window and under 1 light. This is my first year growing indoors so I am learning as I go. Next year I will have a better lighting set up.
This post was edited by pretty.gurl on Thu, Mar 14, 13 at 6:24
First of all, I-am-not-an-expert.
Since you're trying for a shorter plant, I wouldn't remove any of the lower suckers (new suckers may appear later where you removed the first ones). You need stem length to get flower trusses, and the upper side stems (suckers) will probably have reached your 4' pruning height before they have any flower trusses. (That doesn't mean you need to remove them -- they'll put out a few leaves that will help the plant produce energy.)
I'm not sure how many leaves appear on the main stem before the plant makes the first flower truss (hopefully someone who knows will mention it). Or how many leaves there must be on a side stem (sucker) before the first flower truss.
But I do know that an indeterminate plant has 3 leaves between each flower truss, and from what I've seen that's true for branches (suckers) as well as the main stem. That pattern is programmed into its (indeterminate) genes: pruning doesn't make the plant put out flower trusses closer together.
When tomatoes are grown in the ground outdoors and you don't want disease organisms in the soil to splash onto the leaves in a rainstorm, there is an obvious advantage to removing lower leaves along the main stem, as well as the lower suckers which provide additional leaves. But growing indoors in disease-free potting mix in a limited-height situation (which I will have next year if I try to grow dwarfs on my basement workbench or shorter plants in two tiny east-facing bedroom windows), I would probably encourage any low sucker that appeared, since it would start giving me fruit at a lower height.
A 5-gallon bucket would certainly be too small for an unpruned Juliet. How much plant it will support indoors is something you'll find out.
he said if you have under 20" of rainfall per year you would use Gypsum , and if you have over 20" of rainfall per year,, you use lime. We have over 40" per yr. i dont remember the exact number. From what I understand the amount of rainfall would effect your ph, however, he stated not to worry what the ph was just go by the amount of rainfall.
Jeez . Talk about taking a basic law of hydrology and soil science and then extrapolating to the extreme.
Excessive rainfall [30+ inches] does remove basic [alkaline] cations over a long time period. That period of time all depends on the nature of the soil, sandy being the fastest, clay the slowest. However we are talking about over multiple decades, not annually.
And even then that approach is assuming that none of those alkaline cations are replaced by natural decomposition of the soil or even by garden watering - which they are - or recognizing that most garden plants grow best in acidic soil with a pH range of 5.5 - 6.0.
And to say to ignore the soil pH? The pH is the most vital element of the soil as it is what determines nutrient uptake by the plants - what is available to them or not.
So exactly what did you soil test say? Interpreting the WV Soil Test report
According to the soil taxonomy report on WV there are 5 different classes of soil in the state all with widely varying native soil pH so depending on where you live, lime may or may not be of benefit to you and if needed then it would have been reported as such in your soil test.
I commend your desire to understand all this but you know there are numerous reputable, even university and scientific, sources for all this information available on the web. Some guy on youTube is not one of them.
Explore the WVU Extension service website and if you can't find the soil sciences info there then go to the one of the university websites that have a Soil Sciences division like Wisconsin, Florida, Minnesota, etc.
Choose your sources of information with care.
Dave
Here is a link that might be useful: OK State Ext. - Cause and Effect of Soil Acidity
Thanks for those links Dave, I will take some time and read them more thoroughly.
In our area, I know most farmers use lime in the gardens. I havent yet.My soil Ph in the amended garden was 5.8. It was recommneded to apply lime and N. In the non amended area of the yard it was 4.9, and lime N and P was recommended.
Tammy
Here is a link that might be useful: My test results
they get lots of indirect light, and a bit of afternoon direct sun
So these are actual plants, not young seedlings, right?Given that tomatoes need 6-8 hours of direct sun a day I'd say that is your problem right there. Too little sun = too little photosynthesis = too little chlorophyll.
Dave
Focus on SALT in every form. Too much fertilizer, soil with salt buildup or water (especially if you have a softening unit) are all potential sources. Many things could contribute, even a well meaning spray or any mineral taken up by the plants in higher amounts. When you mention leaves on the tallest plants are these leaves affected high or low on the plants? Typically higher leaves (newer growth) damaged indicate toxocity of a more mobile nutrient.
Light might be a factor but is usually expressed as an overall lighter green color.
I start seedlings under cool fluorescents, which I keep ideally no more than 1-2" above the leaves. Since the tubes are cool, leaves which touch them do not burn, so it's fine that sometimes the leaves are up there with the tubes.
I have no experience with other lighting, so I can't help you there.
If there's too much distance between the lighting and the leaves, the seedlings will stretch to be closer to the light. That's not a good thing. The only problem I've had with that has been when the seeds have sprouted and the stems are already stretched before I get them under the lights.
I don't know why your tomato seedlings would be growing sideways ... unless perhaps the root systems aren't strong. Since tomatoes will root anywhere on the stem, I'd think it's not a problem -- as long as the stem begins growing upright at some point.
As far as legginess goes: what is the distance between the base of the stem (i.e. where it comes out of the ground) and the dicotyledons (the first two leaves that come out of the seed)?
It sounds like you didn't plant them deep enough or maybe they need to be up-potted and transplanted deeper so the roots will get stronger. If they are in tiny cells now, transplant them to pots a little bigger and deeper.
One to two inches lighting above the plant tops and mine are only on 16 hrs a day.
The tomatoes are on the right. A tip: brush your hand over the tops of your plants once or twice a day to strengthen their stems.
Tammy, personally I will never prune opalka to a single stem. It will seriously hamper the production. Generally for paste tomatoes I will just use a big cage (24 inch diameter) and let them grow without much intervention. I trim off diseased leaves but that is about it.
Opalk has a decent productivity for me. San Marzano Redorta is almost twice as productive in my zone 7 garden and it is in general a much more robust plant imho. Taste wise they are both pretty good but San Marzano Redorta can be eaten right out of hand and that tells you how good the taste is.
I grew an Opalka last year and got ok results. The taste is great, but it was not as productive as I would have liked. I grew 30 varieties last year and Opalka was lower on the list in terms of productivity for me. My Speckled Roman also did not do so great last year and that was it for paste varieties for me last season.
First they need separate containers. The Parks Whopper alone will eventually take over that lone barrel. That is a good size for 1 plant, not 2 or 3.
Then, if we assume your Dad's variety is an open-pollinated one (non-hybrid) and since the PW and the Bonnie's Original are both hybrids, yes you may get some cross-pollination.
Move Dad's plant away from the other two as much as possible and read the FAQ here on how to prevent cross-pollination by bagging some of its blooms to keep the seeds true.
Of course if Dad's is also a hybrid then it is a moot question anyway.
Dave
Here is a link that might be useful: FAQ on preventing crossing
Will I get a different tomato from the seeds that are produced from the fruit due to cross pollination?
If you're asking whether the plant grown from Dad's 2012 tomato will yield tomatoes just like that one: It depends whether Dad's plant was hybrid or open-pollinated. Do you know the variety name?
But if Dad's tomato was an open-pollinated variety and that particular fruit had been cross-pollinated with pollen from another variety on his farm, the tomatoes you get this summer might be quite different from the fruit you ate last year.
In any case, cross-pollination only affects the plants grown from the seeds of the fruit. So the fruit you'll get from Dad's plant this summer will all be true to the genes in that plant, regardless whether those flowers are pollinated with pollen from that plant or cross-pollinated with pollen from your Bonnie Original or Improved Park's Whopper or a neighbor's tomato. However, when you're talking about plants grown next year from the seeds of your 2013 fruit, it depends on whether those particular flowers are cross-pollinated.