16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Its name is "tomato leaf roll' (you can Google that term) and it is a physical response of the plant to stress of some kind. It isn't necessarily harmful unless it becomes really severe but it is important to identify the cause of the stress and eliminate it when possible.
Normal garden plants respond this way when exposed to inconsistent or excess water such as after a heavy rain. But in your artificial environment there could be several other causes or contributing factors - the growing medium, the soil pH, the nutrients (excess or insufficient), insufficient light, container size, etc. etc.
You will need to evaluate and/or modify all your parameters to identify the cause or causes.
Dave
I have seen the same thing in my containers but mine were top watered and not SWC's. Being an hybrid seeing this robust root system does not surprise and I don't know if I would consider it root bound or it just liked the environment it was growing in. Ami
Big Pinks, if you look at the link I gave in my post above you'll see that there are several sources where one can buy seeds for the Estler one.
I have all the SSE Yearbooks going back to 1975 ( I joined in 1989) and as far as I can remember, there have always been folks listing it, but then when all the so called strains ( not) came along they kind of displaced the excellence of the Estler one, sadly.
Carolyn
Yes Maam I understand what you are saying but for about a 30 mile radius in the Huntington area where there are prob about a dozen diff greenhouses, only Joyces received seed from Mr Estler. Here and there maybe one or two sold Estlers plants from their own saved seed but mostly they sold Radiator Charlie plants or they sold plants they had purchased from Joyces. This from the man I referenced above. I also saw the local extention agent say the same thing on TV. Wouldnt really be a big deal except that many local gardeners dont realize that they're not all the same.
Please see the thread below called End of An Era for the same announcement and I posted in that thread b'c many believe that Charlie Byles ( Radiator Charlie) was the first to develop Mortgage Lifter, but the Estler one was first and I explained why I like the Estler one over all other so called Mortgage ones.
Carolyn
Hadnt read the other thread but Bob's obit was in the Huntington paper today. He was my boss for a short while at a metals factory and once got us all together at Thanksgiving and said grace for our meal right in the middle of the floor of the factory.
Here's some info from Univ of CA about Yellow leaf curl virus in tomato
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PDF/PMG/TomBrochure04NoTriFold.pdf
And here's info from Univ of Fl
http://ipm.ifas.ufl.edu/resources/success_stories/T&PGuide/pdfs/Chapter5/TYLCV.pdf
Even so, I still suggest you contact your county's Extension Service office.
Here is a link that might be useful: from UFL
The extension office just confirmed that the symptoms on my plants (send email with description and pics) are the same as
TYLCV symptoms. The recommendation is to remove those plants and don't plant tomatoes in the same spot again. Treat the ficus with a systemic and spray other tomato plants with a 3 in 1.
Most home growers use either fermentation or oxidative methods, more the former than the latter, to process seeds and also b'c fermetation is a natural process.
I prefer fermentation b'c there's data to document what it can accomlish, but for the oxidative methods there's no data I know of that speaks to efficacy with that method.
Fermentation accomplishes the following:
It removes from the seed coat most, but not all, of many fungal pathogens such as the common foliage ones as well as some of the systemic ones such as Fusarium and Verticillium, to name two. And since infection is a quantitative process it means the less likely that the seeds will transmit infection when sowed.
IT removes the gel capsule from the seeds which gives nice beige, fluffy seeds as one might purchase. The gel capsule does have a germination inhibitor in it, but that's part of the larger life cycle of the tomato where fruits fall to the ground and when conditions are OK for germination, then some of those seeds germinate and are called vounteers.
It use to be said that fermentation also killed viruses, that in the older literature, but much more recent research has shown that for every bacterial and virus tomato disease that's been looked at, they've been found in the endosperm of the seed and only hot water treatment can be used to inactivate the bacterial ones. And that's a....do not try at home process. LOL
Have I ever taken seeds right out of a fruit and sowed theM? Yes, but not often, just when needed, and with no processing I got about 100% germination. BUT I garden in an area where there are few to no soilborne diseases, no viral diseases and very few bacterial foliage diseases; the two common fungal foliage diseases yes.
So yes, I do think that processing seeds by fermentation helps, and I've done a lot of it, believe you me.
Carolyn
I am 4 hrs west of Madison - great to hear about a tasty tomato that does so well here. I will definitely try them next year. I have eight different types growing this year, but so far am only picking Early Girls, Purple Russians and Genovese Roma. Of those, the Early Girls are by far the tastiest for me.
Do you WI growers top your tomato plants in the early fall? If so when?
Just pulled the last of my IHs on Friday after a hard freeze. It was still producing and ripening -- a winner yet again. Even though we'd been through several frosts and several cold nights the fruit was still completely edible.
A local tomato guru says to top your plants the first of August. I forgot and didn't do it until September. Oh well. The whole season was bizarre.
I didn't have luck with Cherokee purple a few years back and haven't tried again. Got 2-3 ugly fruit, total.
I tried Borghese this year ... a oval-ish cherry meant for drying. Over the top productive and very perfect fruit right up to the end. No disease or weirdness from the heat/drought. No splitting. Drying is fun but I eat the things like potato chips.
I remember when the Seattle Times did their big series on toxic wastes being used as fertilizer ingredients. At that time they listed Miracle Grow products as highly pure.
When you compare the .87 ppm of arsenic in their standard water soluble all purpose product with the average of 7 ppm in Washington State soils, the MG looks pretty good.
Even the reagent grade and food grade materials contain some toxic metals.
A poll won't settle anything, nor would a "Jury". Still might be interesting though.
Is Miracle Grow Safe To Use In The Home Garden?
Yes
No
In moderation
ÃÂ ÃÂ pollcode.com free pollsÃÂ
I caught the squirrels eating mine. They don't usually eat tomatoes except when it is dry and then they eat them as a source of water so they will eat them green or red.
The squirrels can climb the vines to get to them. Has it been dry where you live?
A physiological problem due to extreme temperatures, be that high or low.
See http://www.ipm.iastate.edu/ipm/hortnews/1997/7-18-1997/tomdis.html
Here is a link that might be useful: tomato woes
Puffy tomatoes---thanks :-)
From your link,
Cause: Extreme high or low temperatures, excessive nitrogen fertilization, and heavy rains may interfere with normal pollination, resulting in puffy fruit. Puffiness occurs most frequently on early fruit. Control: No effective controls. Puffiness should decline later in the summer.
Here, in my zone 6B garden, the temp extremes were never hit---nights were over 55 and days were under 100
I had watered more religiously than in previous years when I had grown Mule Team but it was always watered at the base of the plant so I'm guessing this shouldn't have interfered with pollination?
I had used a small dose of 5-10-10 early in the season, which I had discounted as a cause. Found this study by Dept Agriculture (38 BULLETIN 859, U. S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE) where they tried to determine if a fertilizer inbalance was the cause:
Various fertilizer plats were arranged to determine the effect of
different amounts of nitrogen, potash, and phosphoric acid upon the
production of "puffy" fruit. .....
No positive results were obtained in this study showing the cause
of puffiness in tomatoes
Puffiness may therefore be dependent upon an unbalanced soil solution, but,
if so, none of the variations in the fertilizers just enumerated sufficed
to restore a proper condition. It is, of course, not inconceivable that
puffiness is of a genetical nature and due to somatic variation. If so, it
might, in conformity with the observed facts, be much more frequent
in some varieties than in others, and the same plant might show both
normal and "puffy" fruit. The whole subject is one which needs
investigation.
I think I'll get a soil test next Spring and find a "new"favorite tomato to grow.
Thanks so much for the help! :-)
Ahh - chaos theory vs. Darwinism. Your approach is more the former than the latter as it assumes no role for random happenstance.
Of course if they were sheltered somewhat now until they obtained some size and root structure then Darwinism would apply and the odds of individual survival relative to its strength and quality would increase.
Dave
Nearly all seeds in the wild (up here in KY) get frozen not just once but multiple times and still manage to germinate. In fact some seeds require a freezing. I've had volunteer lettuce, tomato, squash, amaranth, ground cherry, and Lord knows what else that I know the parent seed had to be frozen multiple times through the winter.
Can't recollect any volunteer beans from the previous year though.
if I wanted to save seeds of those, I would anyway. Especially if I didn't have any more to use. I'd try to save about 50% more than I usually would want. But then after saving them, I'd label them as seeds from tomatoes that froze and then do a germination test on them and see what percentage sprouted. Take 10-20 seeds and put them in a wet paper towel and put them in a baggie in a warm place and see how many sprout. Then you'll know the percentage. and note that on the pack of seeds so you know how many to plant.