16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Your problem is definitely your mix. Tomatoes will grow fine and be very healthy when grown in a heavy mix. They just grow very slowly. I actually start mine out in garden soil and just start a month early.
Once you put them in the ground, they will take off. Next year, you need to either ditch the garden soil and add vermiculite or ditch the other stuff and just grow with dirt and accept the slow growth.
I'm a relatively new gardener, so take my humble opinion with a grain of salt, but I think that landscape cloth is pretty much the devil's work. We had it put down by our home's former owners all around the beds on the side of the house. The problem was that eventually you get a whole ecosystem of really rich material growing on top of it, but not blending through into natural soil layers like nature intended. Moreover, it DID stop most of the roots from growing through it, so the roots on top were spindly little things going all throughout the top of the cloth looking for a way down (and these are roots from big hardy bushes that couldnt get through). Then to make matters worse, the roots underneath the cloth had grown to press up against the cloth, creating weird air pockets under the cloth, which is terrible for the roots.
Long story short, I wouldnt touch the stuff with a ten foot pole. We put down chicken wire made of metal below our beds as a precaution. But anything, even nothing, has to be better than that cloth.
This thread explains much of what I have seen the last 3 years. Each year, everything starts out nice plants are green and growing well. When it comes time for fruit, my big beef is like a cherry tomato and the plants tend to peter out by Aug. I also have a black weed barrier about 10" down. Guess whats coming out next year!
Agree with Jim and you also need to remember that given high heat and high humidity you can vibrate them to death with whatever you want - toothbrushes included - and it won't make a darn bit of difference because the pollen isn't viable.
Dave
I can't really tell from the photos, but as the plants grow, monitor the new growth. If the very new growth is not twisted, that would indicate the twisting was caused by herbicide damage (or some other cause which is no longer present).
Mind you, the original twisted growth will not un-twist.
If the newest growth over the next week or so is just as twisted, then you have either a virus or some continuing factor like juglone in the area of the roots.
* Sorry but all I see in these pics is stress.
Don't be sorry, thats great news ;)
We'll keep monitoring the plant and see what comes out in the end. Maybe we'll end up with some nutty-flavored tigerellas, who knows ;)
TYVM all for clearing this out.
Cheers,
Djole
Sorry, no pix from last year, the plants lasted about 2 months (planted in mid-June when it dried out a bit, put in rain barrel soaker hose and hauled water in barrels in back of truck to connect to in July, then Irene wiped them out in August).
I'm planting edamame there this year since I can put netting around attached to the outside wires (as I found last year when the turkeys were taking a bite of of each tomato).
I was pruning to a single stem and just winding it around a piece of baling twine hanging down from the wire. I guess you could use a second piece to train the stem going down, but mine never got that tall. I did use a second piece for a second stem on some plants. HTH
At the very least, stop fertilizing them daily. Once a week tops and with half the strength of what it says in the instructions.
I have a couple Better Boys in ground and it can get 6-8 feet tall easy. I don't know if you'll be able to successfully transplant to bigger pot now, without loosing all those tomatoes.
You will have to water them daily in that pot, and tomatoes you'll get will likely be below par. But still better than store bought of course :D
Hi Guys,
I transplanted the tomato plant into a much larger pot since putting it in the ground isn't an option at this point. Here's a picture:
I also wanted to include a picture of how the green beans are turning out. They have finally started blooming.
And of course, the radishes I just transplanted:
Feel free to comment as you please!!
I just reviewed them and I don't see any that were deleted, the one on varieties should be since it's quite obsolete, and I don't see any major chages in ones that were here before but I do see several that were uploaded by Tamara who is the Moderator here.
Tamara, when I list them and indicate that some of yours I feel are incomplete I think it's fair to say that you did try to recruit some folks and I guess no one did, and I certainly didn't b'c I was heavily involved with the addition of all the ones you see that were uploaded by Paul and have the list of user names indicating who helped with each FAQ. And that was a serious and long process that I wouldn't wish on anyone b/c of the need for the inclusion of everyone ( see below).
What happened was back in maybe 1999 or 2000 the participants here decided that some new FAQ's should be done. No one volunteered to coordinate, so I did. So first we made a list of the FAQ's we thought needed to be done, then tackled them one by one. We never completed the suggested FAQ's b'c just doing the ones we did took forever.
The major problem was that I'm an egalitarian and wanted input from ALL who were GW members at the time and wanted to help which was also the opinion of most here at the time, while there were a few who wanted the FAQ's to be written by one person, with no input from anyone, and almost all of us did not want to do that at all. Even though at some sites someone will do that so all you get is one person's opinion on various FAQ's.
With that background I'll just go thru them in order:
Det vs indet, that was here when I came
BER, ditto
Varieties, ditto and should be deleted IMO
Blossom Drop, here when I came
Prune, here already, I think
Tomato Pests, maybe here, can't remember, but belongs in that Forum, not here, IMO
Different Leaves, I wrote most and Paul uploaded
Cross pollination, we did that and paul uploaded it
Start From Seed, we did it, uploaded by Paul
Seed Starting II, uploaded by Tamara, new and takes the above to the garden in a somewhat abbreviated manner
Upside down, new, uploaded by Tamara
Cracking, new, uploaded by Tamara and in my opinion is incomplete b'c there are three kinds of splitting, some genetic, some not
Ferts, new, uploaded by Tamara, ditto on incomplete
So that's how I see it and again, when I say incomplete I guess it's my own darn fault for not volunteering to generate a list of new FAQ's to be done and then coordinating the writing of them and uploading.
But not JUST my fault b'c it's clear that none of the participants who read/post here volunteered so Tamara decided to do it herself.
One clarification. Even where I said I wrote most of the leaf one, the final FAQ's that we did here and were uploaded were initially approved, after some serious haggling, LOL, by EVERYONE so that all opinions were taken under consideration in the final form of each uploaded FAQ.
Carolyn
i_am_gray, are you growing in containers? What is your planting medium (dirt, potting mix, etc.)?
What size and color are the "fat small worms" you found?
Am I correct in understanding that you are finding the branches on the ground? Are leaves missing, or is the only damage the branch being removed from the plant? Does the break look like a cut ... or does it look chewed ... or does it look torn? Photos would help, if possible.
Are these "branches" suckers, compound leaves, or flower clusters?
Yes i do grow my plants in containers because there are too many critters running around my backyard. I'm using potting mix, mixed with a bit of manure.
Well i would guess that the worms were about half to an inch big and when I picked them up they curled into balls and they were a off-white slightly gray in color. I found one branch on the ground and another one was almost cut off but not completely so it was hanging down and it literally feels like someone took a knife to the branches. I think the only damage so far is the branches being removed but I'm not a %100 sure.
I'll post pics up as soon as i can and as for what types of branches they are I'm not entirely sure but I'll have the info asap too.
Thank you for replying and helping :)
As I posted in your update, perhaps clopyralid or aminopyralid contamination of manures & compost. Symptoms are essentially the same as from 2,4-D.
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/soilmgmt/Clopyralid.htm
Describes an easy bioassay gardeners can do without having the plant analyzed.
Here is a link that might be useful: contaminated organic matter
Tomato Leaves that curl like a fiddlehead fern? Read up on Aminopyralid residues in compost and manure! I had the honor of having 8 tomatoes take a dive! and beans, peppers. spinach and eggplant too. The herbcides are made by Dow chemical and will pass through horses and cows to the manure, then take a year or more to break down. This Sucks!
Here is a link that might be useful: herbacide contamination of organic matter
Like Dickie said, a Google search by name finds for example:
"LaRoma III VFFNA Hybrid #5183 One of the very best 'Italian-type' tomatoes known for its outstanding vigor and uniformity has become even better. Big yields of 5 to 8 oz. fruit are produced on large, vigorous plants with excellent disease resistance. Expect larger fruit and healthier plants than with the standard Roma. Determinate. 76 days." tomatogrowers.com
"Tumbler" is just Burpee's name for Tumbling Tom.
"The best tomato for hanging baskets and containers . Produces up to 6 pounds of sweet, bright red cherry tomatoes, 1" in diameter. Extremely early harvest in less than 50 days." Burpeee
They claim it is an exclusive but that's only because they change the names of varieties so often
All the varieties you list are very common varieties, grown by many. They are all are hybrids.
Dave
What you are seeking to do is very unusual and is difficult to pull off successfully. And there is quite a bit of cost attached so consider it carefully.
Even those of us who grow in a greenhouse encounter problems that outside plants don't have and it will be almost impossible for you to provide as much full spectrum light as is available in a greenhouse.
At a minimum you will need several CFC fixtures as Jill mentioned above. Compact fluorescent light fixtures come in many different sizes and shapes but most use 4 foot shop lights with 2-4 4' T8 bulbs in them. Some will add special grow light bulbs to provide the full spectrum that the plants will need to bloom and set fruit. Metal halide fixtures is even better that CFC's but substantially more expensive.
For all those plants it would mean hanging them 2-3 fixtures deep and at least 2 fixtures long, something like 4' x 8' area. With the lights suspended no more than 2" above the tops of the plants. The goal is to provide the plants with the maximum number of lumens possible with a full sun spectrum of light.
You'll find a number of pictures and discussions about various light set-ups over on the Growing Under Lights forum here.
Dave
PS: Your Bush Early Girls will need at least a 5 gallon container but bigger will be better. The Patios will do ok in 5 gallons.
missruthy, I looked in the most likely databases to see what they might say about the size of your varieties. Ventmarin, a huge French database, gave Bush Early Girl's height as 23-31" (odd numbers are due to the original info being in centimeters). The forum I can't name lists it in the 24-36" category and recommends spacing them 24" apart. A contributor at Cornell's Vegetable Varieties said they would be 18" tall.
Bush Early Girl is a determinate, which means the plant will stop growing after a certain number of branches or flower clusters. Pruning it will reduce the size of the crop, but you're the best judge of what will work for you.
Unfortunately none of the three databases had ever heard of Sweetheart of the Patio. However, I found a Chicago Tribune article online that said "about 2' tall."
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rnewste, aka Raybo (who I think mostly hangs out on the Container forum), builds his own self-watering containers. The building aspect is not something I want to tackle myself, but I'm mentioning him to show that people can grow indoors successfully, even in winter. This is the construction guide for Raybo's indoor containers, which he designed for growing tomatoes. The photos I'd like you to look at are on p. 13:
http://earthtainer.tomatofest.com/pdfs/InnTainer-Construction-Guide.pdf
The silver shelf units in Raybo's photos look like the ones I have in my basement (mine are black; I've also seen some in white). They're a pain to put together, but you can configure and re-configure them any way you want (shelves are adjustable to every inch), and they're tremendously strong. Mine are 18" x 48" and about 6' tall.
I've seen these shelves at Lowe's, Target (that was 6 years ago and I don't know if they still carry them), and maybe Wal-mart, as well as in catalogs. They're not cheap, but neither are the light supports designed for starting seeds or growing indoors, and if the gardening doesn't succeed, shelves are always useful for storage.
Anyway, I mention the shelves because if you're using 4' fluorescent lights, it's ideal to have sturdy 4' wide shelves from which to hang them. Or you may wish to hang the lights from the shelves cross-ways to cover more space.
I currently use some of my shelves for starting seedlings. I've thought of trying to grow small tomato plants there, but even though my basement is a walk-out and relatively warm, I'm not sure how tomatoes would feel about fruiting there in the winter....
If you want to make your own self-watering containers, there are various plans on the web, including some that use 2 5-gallon pails (I know I saw something recently, perhaps on this forum?). But even if you don't use Raybo's plan, his comments would be useful to you.
Sometimes I wish I had a south-facing window. But this house was built with tiny windows to keep down a/c costs, and none at all on the south wall. And south is the direction the golf balls come from!
