16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

if that's the same case for you.

To a degree, depending on the seed source I use, and I have tried many, including selecting and saving my own. But I find it is almost impossible anymore to find the true determinate seed from any vendors - even when they label it as such.

JMO but I think that as the variety has stabilized over the years most of the seed has reverted or adapted to more of an indeterminate growth pattern. Rather than a determinate or semi-determinate type of fruit set and cropping, its a continuous cropping and the growth patterns are usually true vine indeterminate - height, lateral branch development, node lengths, etc.

But I haven't been overly concerned about it as the production and flavor remains true. I just don't count on it being determinate even when it is labeled as such.

Dave

So, I guess I WON'T be growing the shortest Rutgers in the World. LOL

Phyllis, if you're growing plants from volunteers, as you said above, there's really no way to know or name the varieties you have. If hybrids,as mentioned above, they don't come true from volunteers or indeed saved F2 seed from the actual fruits.

If the initial varieity is open pollinated then there's a chance that the volunteers could be OK, but I think you'd know that once the fruits appear and you can ID them as being a specific variety that you started out with.

Every year I used to take 10 volunteers from the field where I was growing tomatoes and transplant them elsewhere, just for fun and to see what I'd get and to see if I could ID them, and sometimes I could, and sometimes not. But I nevere saved seed from them.

There are many varieties that are called white, but actually are more ivory in color and the final color can depend on the variety, the degree of foliage cover and the amount of UV. So fruit colors can range from ivory to pale yellow to even a deeper yellow.

For me the whitest and best tasting of the large white fruited varieties is White Queen and it actually has some taste to it, which I find is missing in most so called whites that I've grown.

This year I'm growing a new white one called Fantome du Laos which someone I know well suggested I grow and sent me the seeds, so we shall see.

And yes, you can save seeds from white ones as well, as you asked above.

Carolyn

Thank you Carolyn, I think that's the one I have White Queen.The only ones I can ID are the Jubilee and that's because it's yellow and who knows I've probably got that wrong also,but I'm not gonna worry about it since I'm the only one who eats them besides my neighbors and they don't care,Haha I'm glad there are people like you and Dave to ask all the questions I might have. Thanks again.

nitrogen since there are a lot of lower (older) leaves that are remaining robust and dark green.

True but N deficiency shows up in NEW growth, not old growth. Yellowing of old growth is almost always over-watering.

Dave

Oooh, ok, that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. The tomato spikes are really low in nitrogen too, so combined with being used faster than I expected maybe my plants are just starved of nitrogen.

I had a tomato plant that was stressed out like this and had way overgrown its pot. I removed the plant from its pot, teased out a few of the tangled roots, repotted into a larger container, and then gave it a dose of Fish Emulsion, both foliar and systemic. This helps reduce transplant shock. It recovered very, very well and has continued to grow and produce tomatos. It did look a bit droopy for a couple of days and then took off.

Susan

Susan, I hope my transplant does well! I just transplanted it. Unfortunately, my fiancee tried to put in a cage without my permission and bent and ruined one of the stalks. So I'm left with just two. =( I'll give it some fish emulsion and will hope for the best!

Nice pics!

Signed,
A Very Envious Zone 3'er

Hello, I know this was posted a really long time ago but im really interested on the cherry tomato that looks like a bell pepper. I have done lots of reasurch trying to figure out what variety it is and where I can get seed. I have found that it is a miniature version of a stuffing tomato but I have not been able to find anything else out. There are several varieties that are similar in shape but I don't think they are the same size. Yours seem small. About what size are the actually? If at all posible is there any way I can obtain a few seeds from you? If not, do you know what variety it is and where I can get some seeds for next year? I look forward to hearing from you! Thanks!

Yes, it's BER and while most paste varieties are more susceptible to it, almost ALL other varieties are as well.

3rdear, please go down on this first page and read the thread titled Rotting Tomatoes for even more information.

I don't understand why there would be BER fruits on only one branch, though.

And from what you showed it appears that those fruits also have catfacing, multible lobes, which can occur when pollination occurs in cooler weather and is most often seen on beefsteak shaped varieties.

Carolyn

Wow, you all are quick to respond. Thanks so much.

In my experience the percentage of fruit depends on the type of plant. Cherries, grapes, and whatever Juliet is (large grape or small Roma) produce fruit from -- for all intents and purposes -- every single blossom. (If conditions stress the plant, however, the last few blossoms in the cluster, when so small they're barely visible, may drop off; decreasing cluster size is probably all you'll notice. The plant knows how much fruit it can support.)

Larger-fruited tomatoes aren't so productive. Some say heirlooms are less productive. But there is also variation among particular varieties. I've never grown Patio and don't know about its productivity.

A major factor can be temperature. If daytime highs are 90-95 and nighttime temps are either above 75 or below 55, the pollen isn't viable, and pollination usually fails. Cherries handle hot weather better than larger tomatoes -- but some large varieties are better than others.

While I am an avid gardener I only grow a couple of dozen different veggies each year so I do not have the expertise of the folks on this forum.

I tried the patio tomato about two years ago just for kicks and giggles. My experience was that it was trouble free, set a ton of fruit, and ripened much quicker than my plants in ground. However, and this is just my opinion, I did not find them to have much flavor.

I do wish you luck with yours and I'm sure you will have enough to share :).

It's called BER ( Blossom End Rot) and is quite common. If you go to the FAQ link at the top of this page you'll find an article about it that I've linked to below.

And I'm cutting and pasting an explanation that I wrote which goes into a bit more detail, Betsy has had posted it recently and I was glad to be able to save it for myself;

(With BER there is NO problem with absorption of Ca++ though the roots. The problem is maldistribution within the plant that can be induced by a number of stresses which include uneven delivery of water, too much N, growing in too rich soil, too hot, too cold, too wet, too dry you name it.
As the plants mature they can better handle the streses that can induce BER so usually it goes away.

The two exceptions are first, if the soil has NO Ca++ as confirmed with a soil test, and that's a rare condition, and second, if the soil is too acidic in which Case Ca++ is bound in the soil.

Again, adding lime, egg shells and on and on can not and will not prevent BER b'c absorption of Ca++ thru the roots is OK.

Paste tomatoes are especially susceptible to BER and I think someone in a post above mentioned that.

If you go to the top of this first page and click on the FAQ link and scroll down you'll also find an article about BER in case some of you have never looked at the FAQ's And there's some darn good articles there as well, but I wouldn't pay any attention to the variety list b'c it's way out of date.

The old information about BER being caused solely by lack of soil Ca++ has been shown to be wrong with research that's been done in the last 20 years or so, but it's going to take another generation before the real story gets into books, websites, magazines, etc. Most of the better websites already have the correct information.

BER affects not only tomatoes, but peppers, squash, cabbage, cauliflower, etc., and it's a huge multimillion dollar problem for the industry, which is WHY all that reasearch was done. For instance, when tissues were taken from a plant that has BER fruits and was assayed for Ca++, the normal level of Ca++ was found, it just wasn't getting to the blossom end of fruits. And there's also a condition called internal BER where the fruits look fine, no evidence of BER externally, but when you cut open the fruit the inside is black

Hope that helps

Betsy had written the following after my article and I'm leaving it here as well since so many folks talk of adding eggshells, or lime or spraying the foliage with milk, which just does not work.

******
So, what it comes down too is: Tums do not work, nor do egg shells, milk, and other "home remedy" treatments. Foliar spray only works in some cases. Time and good management practices work best.

Carolyn, who notes that since no one can control the weather that, along with too much N, etc. as explained above, there will always be stresses on the plants that can lead to BER.

Here is a link that might be useful: Blossom End Rot

Dave, your post wasn't there when I started mine so we posted almost at the same time.

It took me a while to go fetch the article I cut and pasted and then I stared out of the window here from time to time at a gift someone gave me. It's a solar powered artificial bird perched on a short pole that turns colors of green, blue and red, and the blue one lights up the whole back yard.

I've been wondering what the reponse would be if one of the local critters came by when the backyard was blue. LOL

Good thing it's in the backyard b'c if it were out front by the road I suppose someone might call 911 and report that an alien ship had landed. LOL

Carolyn

My Amish Paste plants are like this. They all look droopy.

My Jersey Giant Plants however all look normal. I'll try and take a picture tonight.

You are problably right on tracydr,this is the only paste type I'm growing,will see:)

I ordered seeds one year & put up 8 feet cane pole, that I cut myself. I planted the seedlings in the circle of cane poles & stood back. By the time the tomatoes where ripe, it was obvious that I had planted bush type tomatoes with 8 feet poles, which never got over 8 inches.
LOL- we learn by doing.:-)

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. I had no idea they were going to get this tall as I didn't even know what type of cherry tomatoes I had planted! I really hope they will stop growing soon!! I have 5 plants and 3- 4 of them are 6 ft already!
I haven't yet decided what I'll do... I might just leave them... :p

Dry white leaves before they ever went out is what you said above.

I see more than that with other leaves drying up and falling off.

How much sun or artificial light were the plants exposed to inside and it looks to me as if the plants might be on the wet side as well.

Is this happening with ALL your seedlings inside?

Carolyn

Of the plants that I started inside, the tomatoes and cucumbers are the ones that seem to be struggling with a similar problem. And yes, it does seem that the problem is continuing outdoors, I meant to highlight the fact that it started before even putting them outside as a fact that might help someone diagnose the problem. They were given about 18hrs of fluo light indoors and when I put them out there was at least 7 hours of direct sunlight. Hopefully they're just adapting to the real world.

I prune any leaves that will be below soil level. Some don't, some do.

I try to time sowing seed so that I have about 6-9 inch tall seedlings to set out after hardening off around the first of June b'c the smaller the plant the quicker it can adapt to inground conditions.

But there have been those years that b'c of weather my plants got much bigger than that, sometimes 2 ft tall but never as tall as 3 ft. And since I used to grow many hundreds of plants and varieties each year there was no way I was going to dig holes deep enough to set those tall plants deeply.

So I trenched them. Just make a shallow trench about 3 inches deep with hoe or trowel, place the plant in it laying it down horizontally, no need to trim off anything, and cover up with soil, tamp down and water in to remove any air pockets. Leave the top of the plant sticking out, at first it will droop down but then stand up tall and straight in a few days.

Look at your rows and make all of the trenched ones planted with the same orientation and you still keep the distance between plants the same. For me that's 3-4 ft and 5 ft between rows.

So for me, putting out plants less than a foot tall means planting vertically, but plants over that size by quite a bit means trenching them, which actually happened very seldom for me.

Plants that are planted vertically are also going to have small feeder roots near the top of the soil and those trenched will also form deep roots.

I'm linking below to an old article that I think explains it very well and was done back in the late 20's when there was no molcular biology to deal with and the basic traits of tomato growth were studied.

Scroll down to the tomato section.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Root structure

Thank you guys so much. You have great information that will be very helpful.

Good to know! We got a couple of very rainy days last weekend and my Marglobes started rolling quite a bit from the bottom up. They aren't showing any other signs. No yellowing or spotting so I'm guessing they'll be just fine. They're in a raised bed, but it's not terribly deep so my guess is it's not draining well enough. I guess i'll try to till a little deeper next year. Or maybe I won't have to. Hopefully all the tomatoes will do that for me. Here's hoping to avoid disease so that I can plant some in the same spot next year. I don't really have anywhere else to put them.

Aphids spread disease. You need to treat. Blast of water, soap sprays or neem oil are good treatments.

My Southern peas have aphids every year & I never add nitrogen to them. I have aphids on peas even when they do not bother any other garden plants.