16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Dry white leaves before they ever went out is what you said above.
I see more than that with other leaves drying up and falling off.
How much sun or artificial light were the plants exposed to inside and it looks to me as if the plants might be on the wet side as well.
Is this happening with ALL your seedlings inside?
Carolyn
Of the plants that I started inside, the tomatoes and cucumbers are the ones that seem to be struggling with a similar problem. And yes, it does seem that the problem is continuing outdoors, I meant to highlight the fact that it started before even putting them outside as a fact that might help someone diagnose the problem. They were given about 18hrs of fluo light indoors and when I put them out there was at least 7 hours of direct sunlight. Hopefully they're just adapting to the real world.
I try to time sowing seed so that I have about 6-9 inch tall seedlings to set out after hardening off around the first of June b'c the smaller the plant the quicker it can adapt to inground conditions.
But there have been those years that b'c of weather my plants got much bigger than that, sometimes 2 ft tall but never as tall as 3 ft. And since I used to grow many hundreds of plants and varieties each year there was no way I was going to dig holes deep enough to set those tall plants deeply.
So I trenched them. Just make a shallow trench about 3 inches deep with hoe or trowel, place the plant in it laying it down horizontally, no need to trim off anything, and cover up with soil, tamp down and water in to remove any air pockets. Leave the top of the plant sticking out, at first it will droop down but then stand up tall and straight in a few days.
Look at your rows and make all of the trenched ones planted with the same orientation and you still keep the distance between plants the same. For me that's 3-4 ft and 5 ft between rows.
So for me, putting out plants less than a foot tall means planting vertically, but plants over that size by quite a bit means trenching them, which actually happened very seldom for me.
Plants that are planted vertically are also going to have small feeder roots near the top of the soil and those trenched will also form deep roots.
I'm linking below to an old article that I think explains it very well and was done back in the late 20's when there was no molcular biology to deal with and the basic traits of tomato growth were studied.
Scroll down to the tomato section.
Carolyn
Here is a link that might be useful: Root structure
Good to know! We got a couple of very rainy days last weekend and my Marglobes started rolling quite a bit from the bottom up. They aren't showing any other signs. No yellowing or spotting so I'm guessing they'll be just fine. They're in a raised bed, but it's not terribly deep so my guess is it's not draining well enough. I guess i'll try to till a little deeper next year. Or maybe I won't have to. Hopefully all the tomatoes will do that for me. Here's hoping to avoid disease so that I can plant some in the same spot next year. I don't really have anywhere else to put them.
Nunyabiz1, that is a new one on me.
I thought all tomato fruit worms fell off the plant & pupa in the soil( learned some thing new,today not a waste).
That is what the Tomato Horn worm does, here in South the THW has two life cycle.
By the way I read that the tomato fruit worm is the same as the corn ear worm.
jpc57, here are instructions on how to post from Photoshop (a free photo-hosting service):
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/hosta/msg0513322013993.html?14
Cut worms can damage, tho not take down, even full grown plants. But the worst damage is early spring. By late spring when the plants are well grown most the larvae have matured, morphed into moths, and moved on.
So how long they are a concern would depend in part on how early in spring you planted out and also how long your season is because they can have2-3 life cycles per year in the warmer zones.
Personally I use popsickle sticks (cheap in a bulk order from any craft supply store) or plastic straws (even cheaper) and just leave them in place all season long.
Dave
Well, everything seems to be in super high passing gear this season, so maybe the cutworms have already gone on to their next lives. The two damaged plants seem to be fine. I sure hope they make it because one is a Mortgage Lifter and the other is a Terhune. I've never grown ML before and last year was my first with Terhune, but it was such a lousy year I got almost no tomatoes. I'd like to see what those taste like.
Chuck
Actually those are "Dollys" with holes drilled in them.
I do that so I can move them if needed but mostly to keep them off the wood on the deck so the deck doesn't rot or discolor.
I use miracle grow potting soil with "moisture control" and as long as I water them heavily everyday they are fine. The moisture control does a good job of retaining just enough to keep them hydrated but not so much as to drown them.
The drainage is very good, all the excess flows right on out like a sink drain. I let the potting soil do its job of retaining enough moisture between waterings.
and yes LARGE containers is the key also, plenty of soil means plenty of moisture for the roots to take in, larger the root system the more nutrients it can uptake.
you also need a large root system in the summer when it is hot, the plant pulls water from the roots and it acts almost like a plumbing system. As long as you have strong roots pulling in water the "water pressure" so to speak inside the plant keeps it hydrated in the severe heat of summer and your plants never droop.
Large pots at least 15 gallon
filled with well draining moisture control potting soil of your choice.
If on a wooden deck best to put on dollys so your deck doesn't rot, drill holes in dollys so the pots maintain free flowing drainage. (the soil maintains the proper moisture in large pots).
Add 2-3" of whatever floats your boat for mulch, I use Cypress mulch, seems to be less buggy than most, doesn't rot or mold. Like most all natural mulches it leeches some nitrogen out of the soil over time but I replace that and then some with regular feedings of miracle grow usually every 9-12 days I take a tablespoon of MG to a 2 gallon watering can and add the whole 2 gallons to each pot.
When I am done with each pot for the season I pull out as much of the old root system as I can, till the soil well check for anything like pupa or any thing like that then wrap the pot with plastic wrap for the winter so nothing gets into the soil like cut worms etc for next year.
"Chuck, some apple growers put ziplock sandwich bags around their fruit to protect from insects. IIRC, they snip through the zipper for a close fit around the stem. I think they also make a tiny cut across the lowest corner so water doesn't collect inside."
Ha, that's a funny coincidence. I was just recently struggling with birds eating all of my strawberries, so out of desperation, I used nylon wedding favor bags (which I originally bought for blossom bagging) to protect the strawberries and it's worked like a charm, keeps birds and insects from the fruit. Also, since they are made of nylon mesh, they breathe. If they were bigger, they'd probably work wonders for peaches too.
I have plenty of insects of all types, including spiders. Seems like more ladybugs than usual. Are ants nuetral in the garden? I think it depends on the type. In my locale there are these tiny little ones that have small colonies and they seem to prefer to live at the base of a plant, often in the company of root aphids. I do what I can to get rid of those. But in my previous garden, 30 miles away but in very different soil, the ants never seemed to do anything so I left them alone.
I plant in large containers, about 15 gallons or so and use nothing but 100% miracle grow potting soil with the moisture control and then top it with 2" of cypress mulch.
I water my plants HEAVY every single day and in the summer when it is 90 degrees plus I water TWICE per day.
All the excess flows right out the bottom and the plants drink the rest everyday.
Tomatoes need lots of water and very good drainage.
You may not have very good drainage in the ground.
If you plant in the ground it is best to dig a DEEP hole fill the bottom with sand and gravel, about 2 feet worth then fill with good potting soil.
This plant was 4" tall about 4 weeks ago.
Its now over 3' tall and about 2+' across.
I net them to keep out squirrels, birds, moths/butterflies.
The other one is over 4' tall (max height it is supposed to get) and has about 60+ tomatoes on it.
A Better Bush variety.
wow, those plants look great! I tried a bunch of SWC last year and they were an epic failure. I made them out of Lowes paint buckets. I made a custom mix gathered from various postings I read. The plants started off looking great....lots of dark green foliage, but then when they started bearing fruit, I lost a ton of it to B.E.R.
I did not plant bush variety though, and instead just had indeterminate kind.
Rocks aren't necessarily a problem ... but if there are too many rocks, there's that much less soil volume to feed the plant.
Is there much organic matter in the soil? That's more important than a few rocks ... though you've got more than a few!
(I swear I haven't seen such rocky soil since I tried planting perennials in a high corner of our Connecticut yard that gave every evidence of being primeval glacial moraine -- and that was many decades ago.)
Yep, that looks like CT soil. But what's eating the leaves?
matthew - if you're in CT, CAES will provide free soil testing.
Here is a link that might be useful: CT Ag Experimental Station soil testing
I like how you put that, homegardenpa. "While I enjoy gardening and it's benefits are many, I don't want to use that as an excuse to toss money into the wind." Same here.
Jaybob, I answered your question in the Vegetable forum before I saw it over here. I'd assigned positive intent to your DW... thinking she might have wanted to keep track for boasting purposes when her friends ask her what it's like to have a crazy gardener for a husband. ;) I have the sort of personality that likes knowing tidbits like that, too, so I understand your willingness to oblige. It's hard to keep up the tally, though, when you're busy with big harvests. Good growing!
Think of how much you are saving in therapy!
I posted a reply on the veggie side, but didn't think to add how much enjoyment I get out of it. I love doing my pruning or weeding, and my hens keep me company. One of my friends keeps saying 'but it looks like so much work'. Maybe, but it makes me happy, when plants start blooming, etc.
I ordered seeds one year & put up 8 feet cane pole, that I cut myself. I planted the seedlings in the circle of cane poles & stood back. By the time the tomatoes where ripe, it was obvious that I had planted bush type tomatoes with 8 feet poles, which never got over 8 inches.
LOL- we learn by doing.:-)
Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. I had no idea they were going to get this tall as I didn't even know what type of cherry tomatoes I had planted! I really hope they will stop growing soon!! I have 5 plants and 3- 4 of them are 6 ft already!
I haven't yet decided what I'll do... I might just leave them... :p