16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

Actual dirt should never be used in containers (drainage problems). [I'm not exactly a newbie gardener, but I learned that on this forum.]

When the word "soil" is used on a label, that bag usually contains dirt.

But "potting soil" on a label is ambiguous. Is it for containers ... or is it dirt for the garden? Hopefully somewhere on the bag there will be a list of contents.

Sometimes on this forum we use "soil" to refer to a non-dirt mix which can be used in a container. This confuses people.

Mine is called Miracle Gro Potting Mix. It doesn't say on the bag what is making it up, just the nutrients in the mix. It claims to be good for containers. I mixed it with perlite.

Wow. Very interesting.

I was wondering exactly what "phenoxy herbicides" are, and whether they're more likely to be used by farmers than lawn-care people or homeowners. But then I looked it up.

Wikipedia's definition: "A phenoxy herbicide is any member of a family of chemicals related to the growth hormone indoleacetic acid (IAA). When sprayed on broad-leaf plants they induce rapid, uncontrolled growth, eventually killing them. When sprayed on crops such as wheat or corn, it selectively kills just the broad-leaf plants in a field, the weeds, leaving the crops relatively unaffected."

2,4-D is the one we've heard of, plus a bunch of others. [Most of the formatting below came through when I copied it, though not all. Everything after the first bold heading was indented, so all are listed under "phenoxy herbicides." Many of the names should be indented to various degrees.]

No, you don't have to read through the whole list.

phenoxy herbicides
bromofenoxim
clomeprop
2,4-DEB
2,4-DEP
difenopenten
disul
erbon
etnipromid
fenteracol
trifopsime

* phenoxyacetic herbicides
clacyfos
4-CPA
2,4-D
3,4-DA
MCPA
MCPA-thioethyl
2,4,5-T

* phenoxybutyric herbicides
4-CPB
2,4-DB
3,4-DB
MCPB
2,4,5-TB

* phenoxypropionic herbicides
cloprop
4-CPP
dichlorprop
dichlorprop-P
3,4-DP
fenoprop
mecoprop
mecoprop-P

- aryloxyphenoxypropionic herbicides
chlorazifop
clodinafop
clofop
cyhalofop
diclofop
fenoxaprop
fenoxaprop-P
fenthiaprop
fluazifop
fluazifop-P
haloxyfop
haloxyfop-P
isoxapyrifop
kuicaoxi
metamifop
propaquizafop
quizalofop
quizalofop-P
trifop

The list is from this site (with interesting links at the bottom of the page, if you need to look up herbicide names):
http://www.alanwood.net/pesticides/class_herbicides.html

Now mind you, I am not an agricultural chemist. So I cannot say whether 2,4-DEP should be in two different categories (which it is). [I was looking for glyphosate, which is listed in the organophosphorus category: i.e. not with the ones I copied to this page.]

I had a neighbor whose lawn service (and he did it too) sprayed 2-4 D every year after I put my toms out. I would run get the hose and immediately wash them off and that keep it at bay...but only when I saw it happening, if I didn't I'd get the gnarly toms, most of the time I had to pull them....I also planted a row of something tall like zinnias that acted as a buffer zone, zinnia didn't care whether there was drift or not. Easiest was to move my plants to inner part of my yard so my tree and shrub line between the properties caught the drift...lost 5 redbud trees to drift. Finally got mad, called the lawn service company...told them the problem, and stop spraying my stuff or else....services insurance paid for my trees and hasn't come back to spray...the property owner does do some spraying still but no issues with my toms as of today. I do glare at him or ask him what he is spraying each time I see him...must be getting the idea I am not happy. No one has the right to spray on others property or cause drift damage to your property. Key is to catch them in the act and find out what is sprayed and when...they have insurance to pay for damage.

Very nice looking plants. How high do you plan to let them get and how will you support them?

Aha!!! SneakyP, you bring up a good question...one that I've been grappling with. I think what I will end up doing is allowing the plants to get as high as the house (just above the edge of the photo), which has a flat roof. I will rig a support system, probably of twine, that attaches to the roof ridge and ties off at the bottom, probably every 12-18". Anything above that will be topped off...I think. I've never had this problem before, so I'll have to keep ya posted. LOL.

Cdon,
I always say people kill their plants with kindness more often than neglect. So the same hold true for peppers as tomatoes.

Angela.t,
When the peppers actually set fruit, excess watering makes for less hot peppers. Just as too much water with tomatoes can make for less tasty fruit, and cracked fruit too. Of course when torrential rains come, there's nothing you can do.
Remy

Ah. Thanks for the info Remy! :)

This link works:

Rather than use a moisture meter, dig down a bit and test the soil moisture by hand.

Letting it completely dry between watering

Maybe "completely" isn't a good idea. Of course your definition of "completely" and mine may not be the same.

You don't indicate where you live or even your gardening zone. We need that info.

Depending on that info I see several possible problems.

(1) poor, inconsistent watering methods leading to heavy stress, shallow rooting, root rot, and possibly poorly draining soil (no such thing as "organic soil" so what are we talking about?). How much and what type of compost? Any possibility of weed killer contamination in it?

Consistency in soil moisture levels is the goal, not one extreme to another. Consistent low moisture levels. And moisture meters are notorious for being inaccurate. Use your hands. Tunnel down to the 6" level where the root are and feel the soil

(2) way too much soaker hose in place for such small beds contributing to watering issues.

3) the wood chip mulch - never recommended for vegetable beds - binds up nitrogen and attracts pests especially slugs and root maggots.

4) all the Neem oil spraying. It causes its own issues with plants when not used and applied properly. Use when needed is one thing. Regular use when it may not even be needed is something else entirely. Application times, methods, and amounts are critical.

Sorry but IMO you are going to have to make some major changes in methods to save those plants.

Dave

Update: the tomatoes are transplanted into the garden and seem to be doing well. Once I got them into the little pots they doubled in size. I used the garden soil as an intermediary to the dirt in my garden. I was afraid that a potting mix might interfere with the plants adapting to the garden. I have fertilized after planting the tomatoes and am pleased with how they are responding to being in the garden. Now if all goes well I hope they will finish catching up with the plants I bought :) either way they might just be a bit behind which is fine too :) soong as I get my tomatoes I am happy lol

I used the garden soil as an intermediary to the dirt in my garden. I was afraid that a potting mix might interfere with the plants adapting to the garden.

There are several really good reasons for why what you did is NOT a good idea. Damp-off, root rot, compaction, stunting, pests, transplant shock, etc. You were lucky they survived this time. Not an approach to be recommended to others.

Dave

dickiefickle , I wanted to mimic Earthbox instructions as well as receiving advice from those on the tomato forums like Dave and Raybo that the lime helps to control ph and blossom end rot while supplying necessary nutrients . The model I used for the containers I found on globalbuckets.com -- thusfar , the plants are doing great . I believe that the bottom watering method makes a big difference .

I've grown New Big Dwarf several times, and it is usually slow to set fruit. But once it starts it should give you a good amount of wonderful tomatoes. I think NBD is a great variety, especially if space is an issue. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Lew

It was asked "did you mean too say dowel as in wooden dowel.not trowel?"

Nope. I meant trowel. Stick it into the soil tilt it a bit so that you can look at the soil in order to determine if it's wet, moist, or dry.

I find that container-grown tomatoes have more BER than the ground-grown relatives because
- the root system is restricted;
- heat builds up in containers and thus limits root function;
- and containers, depending upon their size, can dry rapidly on a summer day.

BER is a water-transport issue wherever the tomato is planted.

Quote "That type of leaf roll is usually caused by slightly high nitrogen in the soil reacting to cool nights and moderate days the nitro in the leaves does this, better results will be obtained when day and night temps are more evenly matched and it will go away."
.

@mickyfinn6777, I sure hope that's what it is, I had thought the plants were healthy because they had lots of tomatoes. I have checked all the fruit and I don't see any others with BER (or any other issues). Central Texas just had a cool front and a week of rain roll through here. temps were lower 60's to upper 70's. We are now back to normal: dry with upper 60's to upper 80's.

The Husky cherry tomatoes are really starting to produce lots of sweet and tasty cherries. I had two black princes just starting to turn color, sadly, my dog was impatient and did a snatch and run on one of them. My fault for not closing the gate behind me.

Nutrient deficiency. Primarily magnesium and secondarily phosphorus. If it has been cool and damp that would explain the uptake problems and it should resolve as the plant matures and the weather stabilizes.

However IF you know that a) your soil pH is out of whack or that you soil is P deficient then a good feeding will help and b) a root drench watering of 1 T epsom salts in 1 gallon of water will resolve the magnesium deficiency and you should see a quick recovery.

I see this in my early spring plants frequently and have to routinely add epsom salts to my plants because my native soil pH is so alkaline that nutrient uptake, especially Mg, is problematic.

Dave

@ajsmama & Dave

Thank you very much for the info provided. As for the lab tests - we did the macro nutrient analysis for the 2nd site (the one with 100 tomatoes) - pH 6,52 (KCl), N, P, K were all deficient (border values between deficient and mediocre), and so was the organic matter in the soil (2,58%), so we used Plantella Organik in large dose (5-3-2 pelleted dry manure, sterilized then enriched with useful soil bacteria and micro nutrients). Some were fed after planting since the results were late, and some were fed via transplantation hole. In the following weeks we will add Memon Siforga (5-3-8, same as above) for the additional K. Anyways this site was mucky but not completely flooded because it is mildly sloped, and there is less damage here then on the other site. The distribution amongst those 100 was quite random, some were affected more, some less, and some not at all.

As for the 1st site (the one with 15 tomatoes), i didn't do lab tests, i grew tomatoes there last year with great success. Soil doesn't drain too well but since we seldom have this much precipitation it doesn't usually pose a problem. This time it rained literally 24 hours a day for 4 days. On the 3rd day, a pond (yes, a pond) formed over a lane between tomato rows (the lane is a bit lower than tomatoes).

This weather is very unusual for May here, however the whole "spring" was weird, that's pretty much the reason why i got caught so pants-down. Anyways, the following 3 days ought to be dry, with 44 f low tonight, going up to 82 f high on sunday.

Thanks again for diagnosing this, i've dealt with some of the diseases before but this was completely new to me (can't remember a crappier spring weather). You guys/gals rock ;). Wish i could take you out for a beer or coffee or something :)

Cheers,
Djole

Thanks for the laugh!

Ollie, my Sweet 100 last year turned out to be a so-so beefsteak. Yours looks far superior.

Mine was grown at Metrolina Greenhouses outside of Charlotte NC.

The name was on an adhesive label stuck to the pot.

I seriously doubt that it will have any effect since the timing of fruit set is determined by other factors (see the FAQ here on Blossom Drop) but it won't hurt anything as long as you don't overdo it. Excessive phosphorus in the soil and the subsequent run-off contamination is a serious problem in many parts of the country

Dave

Unless you're growing in very sandy soil, the odds of you being low in P or K is not very likely so adding a bunch of P&K-only fertilizer is just going to go to waste, IMO.

That type of fertilizer is sometimes called bloom booster, or something similar. Odds are it's a complete wash. It may create better or slightly bigger blooms, but it also might do nothing if your soil wasn't already deficient in those nutrients - but it almost certainly won't get you earlier fruit. If you want earlier fruit, you need an earlier variety of tomato - or you need to plant out early and protect in low tunnels or the like.

Basically, with ideal conditions (good weather, ample light, etc.) fruit ripens in a set amount of time, it can take longer if things stray from the ideal, but you can't really speed it up.

Could be mice. Usually with fruitworms you will have some pitting but far more fruit with just holes and as you might expect once they are burrowed inside the fruit spray won't get to them. Hornworms are more evasive and easily camoflaged but you should notice the foliage missing on parts of this plant. The location of the fruit might be more helpful.

I have a few tomatoes ripening in my high tunnels and the other day I noticed a chipmunk in the one corner. Last night I had a dream that each ripe tomato had a bite out of it. In my vivid dream the bottoms were all knarley and oozing. Today I picked the ripe tomatoes, unaffected and ate them but I share your pain. I would not hesitate to get to the bottom of the problem if I were you.

Thanks, I'd only use sevin as a last resort. I've lost the last 2 seasons of tomatos to heat and critters. I'm determined to have some good tomatos this year. I have BT, I'll mix up a batch and spray.