16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

Cdon,
I always say people kill their plants with kindness more often than neglect. So the same hold true for peppers as tomatoes.

Angela.t,
When the peppers actually set fruit, excess watering makes for less hot peppers. Just as too much water with tomatoes can make for less tasty fruit, and cracked fruit too. Of course when torrential rains come, there's nothing you can do.
Remy

Ah. Thanks for the info Remy! :)

This link works:

Rather than use a moisture meter, dig down a bit and test the soil moisture by hand.

Letting it completely dry between watering

Maybe "completely" isn't a good idea. Of course your definition of "completely" and mine may not be the same.

You don't indicate where you live or even your gardening zone. We need that info.

Depending on that info I see several possible problems.

(1) poor, inconsistent watering methods leading to heavy stress, shallow rooting, root rot, and possibly poorly draining soil (no such thing as "organic soil" so what are we talking about?). How much and what type of compost? Any possibility of weed killer contamination in it?

Consistency in soil moisture levels is the goal, not one extreme to another. Consistent low moisture levels. And moisture meters are notorious for being inaccurate. Use your hands. Tunnel down to the 6" level where the root are and feel the soil

(2) way too much soaker hose in place for such small beds contributing to watering issues.

3) the wood chip mulch - never recommended for vegetable beds - binds up nitrogen and attracts pests especially slugs and root maggots.

4) all the Neem oil spraying. It causes its own issues with plants when not used and applied properly. Use when needed is one thing. Regular use when it may not even be needed is something else entirely. Application times, methods, and amounts are critical.

Sorry but IMO you are going to have to make some major changes in methods to save those plants.

Dave

Update: the tomatoes are transplanted into the garden and seem to be doing well. Once I got them into the little pots they doubled in size. I used the garden soil as an intermediary to the dirt in my garden. I was afraid that a potting mix might interfere with the plants adapting to the garden. I have fertilized after planting the tomatoes and am pleased with how they are responding to being in the garden. Now if all goes well I hope they will finish catching up with the plants I bought :) either way they might just be a bit behind which is fine too :) soong as I get my tomatoes I am happy lol

I used the garden soil as an intermediary to the dirt in my garden. I was afraid that a potting mix might interfere with the plants adapting to the garden.

There are several really good reasons for why what you did is NOT a good idea. Damp-off, root rot, compaction, stunting, pests, transplant shock, etc. You were lucky they survived this time. Not an approach to be recommended to others.

Dave

dickiefickle , I wanted to mimic Earthbox instructions as well as receiving advice from those on the tomato forums like Dave and Raybo that the lime helps to control ph and blossom end rot while supplying necessary nutrients . The model I used for the containers I found on globalbuckets.com -- thusfar , the plants are doing great . I believe that the bottom watering method makes a big difference .

I've grown New Big Dwarf several times, and it is usually slow to set fruit. But once it starts it should give you a good amount of wonderful tomatoes. I think NBD is a great variety, especially if space is an issue. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

Lew

It was asked "did you mean too say dowel as in wooden dowel.not trowel?"

Nope. I meant trowel. Stick it into the soil tilt it a bit so that you can look at the soil in order to determine if it's wet, moist, or dry.

I find that container-grown tomatoes have more BER than the ground-grown relatives because
- the root system is restricted;
- heat builds up in containers and thus limits root function;
- and containers, depending upon their size, can dry rapidly on a summer day.

BER is a water-transport issue wherever the tomato is planted.

Quote "That type of leaf roll is usually caused by slightly high nitrogen in the soil reacting to cool nights and moderate days the nitro in the leaves does this, better results will be obtained when day and night temps are more evenly matched and it will go away."
.

@mickyfinn6777, I sure hope that's what it is, I had thought the plants were healthy because they had lots of tomatoes. I have checked all the fruit and I don't see any others with BER (or any other issues). Central Texas just had a cool front and a week of rain roll through here. temps were lower 60's to upper 70's. We are now back to normal: dry with upper 60's to upper 80's.

The Husky cherry tomatoes are really starting to produce lots of sweet and tasty cherries. I had two black princes just starting to turn color, sadly, my dog was impatient and did a snatch and run on one of them. My fault for not closing the gate behind me.

Nutrient deficiency. Primarily magnesium and secondarily phosphorus. If it has been cool and damp that would explain the uptake problems and it should resolve as the plant matures and the weather stabilizes.

However IF you know that a) your soil pH is out of whack or that you soil is P deficient then a good feeding will help and b) a root drench watering of 1 T epsom salts in 1 gallon of water will resolve the magnesium deficiency and you should see a quick recovery.

I see this in my early spring plants frequently and have to routinely add epsom salts to my plants because my native soil pH is so alkaline that nutrient uptake, especially Mg, is problematic.

Dave

@ajsmama & Dave

Thank you very much for the info provided. As for the lab tests - we did the macro nutrient analysis for the 2nd site (the one with 100 tomatoes) - pH 6,52 (KCl), N, P, K were all deficient (border values between deficient and mediocre), and so was the organic matter in the soil (2,58%), so we used Plantella Organik in large dose (5-3-2 pelleted dry manure, sterilized then enriched with useful soil bacteria and micro nutrients). Some were fed after planting since the results were late, and some were fed via transplantation hole. In the following weeks we will add Memon Siforga (5-3-8, same as above) for the additional K. Anyways this site was mucky but not completely flooded because it is mildly sloped, and there is less damage here then on the other site. The distribution amongst those 100 was quite random, some were affected more, some less, and some not at all.

As for the 1st site (the one with 15 tomatoes), i didn't do lab tests, i grew tomatoes there last year with great success. Soil doesn't drain too well but since we seldom have this much precipitation it doesn't usually pose a problem. This time it rained literally 24 hours a day for 4 days. On the 3rd day, a pond (yes, a pond) formed over a lane between tomato rows (the lane is a bit lower than tomatoes).

This weather is very unusual for May here, however the whole "spring" was weird, that's pretty much the reason why i got caught so pants-down. Anyways, the following 3 days ought to be dry, with 44 f low tonight, going up to 82 f high on sunday.

Thanks again for diagnosing this, i've dealt with some of the diseases before but this was completely new to me (can't remember a crappier spring weather). You guys/gals rock ;). Wish i could take you out for a beer or coffee or something :)

Cheers,
Djole

Thanks for the laugh!

Ollie, my Sweet 100 last year turned out to be a so-so beefsteak. Yours looks far superior.

Mine was grown at Metrolina Greenhouses outside of Charlotte NC.

The name was on an adhesive label stuck to the pot.

I seriously doubt that it will have any effect since the timing of fruit set is determined by other factors (see the FAQ here on Blossom Drop) but it won't hurt anything as long as you don't overdo it. Excessive phosphorus in the soil and the subsequent run-off contamination is a serious problem in many parts of the country

Dave

Unless you're growing in very sandy soil, the odds of you being low in P or K is not very likely so adding a bunch of P&K-only fertilizer is just going to go to waste, IMO.

That type of fertilizer is sometimes called bloom booster, or something similar. Odds are it's a complete wash. It may create better or slightly bigger blooms, but it also might do nothing if your soil wasn't already deficient in those nutrients - but it almost certainly won't get you earlier fruit. If you want earlier fruit, you need an earlier variety of tomato - or you need to plant out early and protect in low tunnels or the like.

Basically, with ideal conditions (good weather, ample light, etc.) fruit ripens in a set amount of time, it can take longer if things stray from the ideal, but you can't really speed it up.

Could be mice. Usually with fruitworms you will have some pitting but far more fruit with just holes and as you might expect once they are burrowed inside the fruit spray won't get to them. Hornworms are more evasive and easily camoflaged but you should notice the foliage missing on parts of this plant. The location of the fruit might be more helpful.

I have a few tomatoes ripening in my high tunnels and the other day I noticed a chipmunk in the one corner. Last night I had a dream that each ripe tomato had a bite out of it. In my vivid dream the bottoms were all knarley and oozing. Today I picked the ripe tomatoes, unaffected and ate them but I share your pain. I would not hesitate to get to the bottom of the problem if I were you.

Thanks, I'd only use sevin as a last resort. I've lost the last 2 seasons of tomatos to heat and critters. I'm determined to have some good tomatos this year. I have BT, I'll mix up a batch and spray.

I started writing this reply yesterday, but hadn't posted it:

I'm looking through "Revolutionary Genes in the Genus Lycopersicon." It dates from 1993, but I'm learning about the history of tomato breeding for commercial use.

"The determinate growth characteristic or self-pruning controlled by a single recessive gene (sp) is a spontaneous mutation which occurred in Florida in 1914.... Before the discovery of this mutant, processing tomato varieties had indeterminate growth habit. Thus, they were grown on wide spacing with less fertilizer resulting in low yield per hectare. The mutant gene was successfully transferred to Sta. [i.e. Santa] Clara Canner, an indeterminate processing variety. Determinate progenies from the cross of the determinate and indeterminate types resulted in the predominant tomato processing varieties used in California from the 1940's to the 1960's...."

Of course, I can only shudder at the mention of some of the genes he hoped would be included in commercial varieties in the future. That future is now!

http://www.cabi.org/GARA/FullTextPDF/2009/20093019421.pdf

- - - - -

I had done the search on Startpage (which supposedly offers a Google search without the privacy concerns). I think I searched ruben villareal tomato. [In any case, I get the same result whether I use tomato or tomatoes.]

I seem to get more links to articles (or at least mentions of articles and research -- I haven't clicked on many yet) and far fewer booksellers than Carolyn's Google search with the identical terms.

http://www.startpage.com
Unfortunately, they won't let me link to an actual search.

Too much to do at the moment to spend more time comparing search engines. But it's intriguing.

Oh, and by the way: Thanks, nordfyr!

My understanding is that everyone's google is different and tends to predict results based on your surfing habits. I could be completely wrong about this....

My hypothesis is that Ruben L. Villareal developed a few heat resistant varieties (Divisoria-2 and VC-11) based upon his donation of those varieties to GRIN and also his frequent citation of those varieties in his writings and the little biographical information I have been able to glean about him. Makes sense; people seem to be biased towards their own works.

Wow...thats really impressive! Good luck, I hope you get lots of beautiful tomatoes! You deserve it for all the effort that must have taken.

Your bed is lovely! I'm jealous. Mine is still in progress, It was designed to combat both climate and critters, and this is its test season.

Taking a term from Eliot Coleman, the 4 season gardening man, I call it my 'appliance' which was his catch all term for his various season extending devices. This is butted up against the south side of the house, in the hopes of getting another month of harvest in the autumn, and a jump on planting int the spring. I'm very happy, so far.

the Koralik is very prolific, determinate?, but mine grows like an indeterminate, in multiple vines 8 feet tall and producers until freeze. The flavor is unique and full, it is not sweet. It is a very tolerant plant, suited well for Oklahoma. Worth growing to see if you like the flavor.

I also had the same experience last summer as the gardener in Oklahoma, only I'm near Fargo, North Dakota. Despite our very short growing season, I found this "compact" tomato, which supposedly doesn't require staking or caging to be the Godzilla of the cherry tomato world. Using the square foot gardening method (pinching out the side shoots), my single Koralik plant grew rapidly up the 6-foot support and then traveled the entire length of the bed--another 8 feet! The vines produced right up until frost and were loaded down with a ridiculous number of massive clusters of the best tasting cherry tomatoes I've ever eaten. This was easily the most impressive tomato I've ever grown. However none of the descriptions found online for Koralik match the tomato I grew. So is there some other Koralik? I got mine from Lazy Ox Farm.

While many of us share the same growing conditions you have in your location, I should add that if you want info specific to Texas only then you may want to also post over on the Texas Gardening forum here at GW.

Dave

PS: thanks soonergrandmom. Glad it wasn't just me who didn't get it. :)

I apologize for my remarks if they sounded snarky. I am used to sports message boards where folks jump you at the first chance they get.

That said, I also should have been more clear in my original post as to my goals and objectives. I currently have a tremendous set of tomatoes but will be moving to EarthBoxes next year due to family member's success with them. I currently have Black Krim, Homestead, Better Bush, Big Rainbow, Cherokee Purple, Husky Cherry Red and Costoluto Genovese. Next year I'll be trying a separate group and, since I am coming into a sum of money in the next few weeks, I will be buying all my EarthBoxes, seeds, etc and storing until I start my seedlings in November. They'll go from there to my grandmother's greenhouse for about six weeks before going into the earthboxes outside.

Well you definitely have a good case of 'tomato leaf roll' going on and that indicates severely stressed plants. You can Google that term for more details on it.

The problem is identifying what all is causing the stress and that will be the usual suppositions you'll have to check out: rootbound plants in such small containers, insufficient fertilizer since regular weekly feeding is required for container plants, over watering or inconsistent watering (periods of dry followed by periods of soaked etc.), poor draining mix in container though both of those should be fine unless you used MG Moisture Control Mix, the aggressive use of the soap spray which causes its own issues, weather/storms, etc.

The when it comes to tomato leaf roll the odds favor excessive and/or inconsistent soil moisture levels as the primary cause.

I would suggest removing all of the damaged foliage ASAP and doing a bit - just a bit - of constructive pruning to reduce the size of the plants and its demands, give it a good feeding of a diluted-to-1/2 strength liquid fertilizer and continue to monitor them for the quality of new growth.

If they continue to decline or if they begin wilting regularly then they are rootbound and will not survive. 5 gallon buckets are the MINIMUM recommended size of container and are very problematic unless growing dwarf varieties.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Dave,

Thanks for the input. Good to know I don't have to deal with some sort of horrible viral/fungal issue. I will follow your advice and trim the plants of the worst of the foliage.

I'd considered over/under watering for a bit, but repeated examination of the soil in both containers showed the medium was moist (not sopping wet).

Is there a liquid fertilizer that you would recommend? I do have ample supply of worm tea that I collect from my vermicomposting bin. Would worm tea work? And should I water from the top surface, or pour the water into the reservoir so it is drawn into the medium from below?

This is my first attempt at using these types of buckets for Solar Fire. Never knew the plants required such large volume for the roots!