16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

I started writing this reply yesterday, but hadn't posted it:

I'm looking through "Revolutionary Genes in the Genus Lycopersicon." It dates from 1993, but I'm learning about the history of tomato breeding for commercial use.

"The determinate growth characteristic or self-pruning controlled by a single recessive gene (sp) is a spontaneous mutation which occurred in Florida in 1914.... Before the discovery of this mutant, processing tomato varieties had indeterminate growth habit. Thus, they were grown on wide spacing with less fertilizer resulting in low yield per hectare. The mutant gene was successfully transferred to Sta. [i.e. Santa] Clara Canner, an indeterminate processing variety. Determinate progenies from the cross of the determinate and indeterminate types resulted in the predominant tomato processing varieties used in California from the 1940's to the 1960's...."

Of course, I can only shudder at the mention of some of the genes he hoped would be included in commercial varieties in the future. That future is now!

http://www.cabi.org/GARA/FullTextPDF/2009/20093019421.pdf

- - - - -

I had done the search on Startpage (which supposedly offers a Google search without the privacy concerns). I think I searched ruben villareal tomato. [In any case, I get the same result whether I use tomato or tomatoes.]

I seem to get more links to articles (or at least mentions of articles and research -- I haven't clicked on many yet) and far fewer booksellers than Carolyn's Google search with the identical terms.

http://www.startpage.com
Unfortunately, they won't let me link to an actual search.

Too much to do at the moment to spend more time comparing search engines. But it's intriguing.

Oh, and by the way: Thanks, nordfyr!

My understanding is that everyone's google is different and tends to predict results based on your surfing habits. I could be completely wrong about this....

My hypothesis is that Ruben L. Villareal developed a few heat resistant varieties (Divisoria-2 and VC-11) based upon his donation of those varieties to GRIN and also his frequent citation of those varieties in his writings and the little biographical information I have been able to glean about him. Makes sense; people seem to be biased towards their own works.

Wow...thats really impressive! Good luck, I hope you get lots of beautiful tomatoes! You deserve it for all the effort that must have taken.

Your bed is lovely! I'm jealous. Mine is still in progress, It was designed to combat both climate and critters, and this is its test season.

Taking a term from Eliot Coleman, the 4 season gardening man, I call it my 'appliance' which was his catch all term for his various season extending devices. This is butted up against the south side of the house, in the hopes of getting another month of harvest in the autumn, and a jump on planting int the spring. I'm very happy, so far.

the Koralik is very prolific, determinate?, but mine grows like an indeterminate, in multiple vines 8 feet tall and producers until freeze. The flavor is unique and full, it is not sweet. It is a very tolerant plant, suited well for Oklahoma. Worth growing to see if you like the flavor.

I also had the same experience last summer as the gardener in Oklahoma, only I'm near Fargo, North Dakota. Despite our very short growing season, I found this "compact" tomato, which supposedly doesn't require staking or caging to be the Godzilla of the cherry tomato world. Using the square foot gardening method (pinching out the side shoots), my single Koralik plant grew rapidly up the 6-foot support and then traveled the entire length of the bed--another 8 feet! The vines produced right up until frost and were loaded down with a ridiculous number of massive clusters of the best tasting cherry tomatoes I've ever eaten. This was easily the most impressive tomato I've ever grown. However none of the descriptions found online for Koralik match the tomato I grew. So is there some other Koralik? I got mine from Lazy Ox Farm.

While many of us share the same growing conditions you have in your location, I should add that if you want info specific to Texas only then you may want to also post over on the Texas Gardening forum here at GW.

Dave

PS: thanks soonergrandmom. Glad it wasn't just me who didn't get it. :)

I apologize for my remarks if they sounded snarky. I am used to sports message boards where folks jump you at the first chance they get.

That said, I also should have been more clear in my original post as to my goals and objectives. I currently have a tremendous set of tomatoes but will be moving to EarthBoxes next year due to family member's success with them. I currently have Black Krim, Homestead, Better Bush, Big Rainbow, Cherokee Purple, Husky Cherry Red and Costoluto Genovese. Next year I'll be trying a separate group and, since I am coming into a sum of money in the next few weeks, I will be buying all my EarthBoxes, seeds, etc and storing until I start my seedlings in November. They'll go from there to my grandmother's greenhouse for about six weeks before going into the earthboxes outside.

Well you definitely have a good case of 'tomato leaf roll' going on and that indicates severely stressed plants. You can Google that term for more details on it.

The problem is identifying what all is causing the stress and that will be the usual suppositions you'll have to check out: rootbound plants in such small containers, insufficient fertilizer since regular weekly feeding is required for container plants, over watering or inconsistent watering (periods of dry followed by periods of soaked etc.), poor draining mix in container though both of those should be fine unless you used MG Moisture Control Mix, the aggressive use of the soap spray which causes its own issues, weather/storms, etc.

The when it comes to tomato leaf roll the odds favor excessive and/or inconsistent soil moisture levels as the primary cause.

I would suggest removing all of the damaged foliage ASAP and doing a bit - just a bit - of constructive pruning to reduce the size of the plants and its demands, give it a good feeding of a diluted-to-1/2 strength liquid fertilizer and continue to monitor them for the quality of new growth.

If they continue to decline or if they begin wilting regularly then they are rootbound and will not survive. 5 gallon buckets are the MINIMUM recommended size of container and are very problematic unless growing dwarf varieties.

Hope this helps.

Dave

Dave,

Thanks for the input. Good to know I don't have to deal with some sort of horrible viral/fungal issue. I will follow your advice and trim the plants of the worst of the foliage.

I'd considered over/under watering for a bit, but repeated examination of the soil in both containers showed the medium was moist (not sopping wet).

Is there a liquid fertilizer that you would recommend? I do have ample supply of worm tea that I collect from my vermicomposting bin. Would worm tea work? And should I water from the top surface, or pour the water into the reservoir so it is drawn into the medium from below?

This is my first attempt at using these types of buckets for Solar Fire. Never knew the plants required such large volume for the roots!

In "theory", the water should wick from the reservoir as needed (much like an earthbox). I noticed that some roots have made it into the reservoir. Should I allow the reservoir to go entirely dry before refilling? Has anyone had the same problem using 'moisture control' potting soil?

Has anyone had the same problem using 'moisture control' potting soil?

Yes, many have reported on problems with it. It keeps the plants too wet unless used in exceptionally large containers (like bigger than 35 gallons). And Raybo has posted about problems with it here in his 31 gallon Earthtainer set-ups.

It is one of those things that sounds good in theory but not so good in practice sometimes.

If that is what you used then you'll have to reduce/monitor the watering much more closely.

Some have started incorporating perforated landscape fabric into the bottoms of their SWC just so the roots can't get directly to the water. I haven't tried it personally since I haven't had any problem with it in my Earthboxes but then I use a timed auto-drip system on mine so the water chamber doesn't sit full of water all the time.

Dave

The wind blew my tomato plant over and I have two stems that are bent and damaged, but not broken. What shall I do with them?

Tomatoes are extremely resilient, you can even graft a tomato type onto a disease resistant root stock like they do with fruit trees. just bandage it and leave it be for a few days, it will heal.

Here is a link that might be useful: My corner of the world

I am having a similar "issue" allthough it's not much of an issue because I planted about 100 more seedlings than I can use. I am giving the rest away to friends and our community gardens. BUT...

All were started in the same flat, 2 of 7 rows did terrible in the flats, while 5 of 7 looked exactly how I wanted them to look. I potted up into the solo cups with pro-mix, scotts potting mix and Miracle grow potting mix all mixed together in a large tote.

They were in my south and west facing sunroom getting good light with a rotation under my 4 T8 bulb setup. Each day I would put about 30 under the lights and rotate them every day. It was the best I could do for this year.

I started putting them out about 2 weeks ago and the wether has been favorable, other than more rain than I would like. But, they spruce up quickly after each rain and have even made it through a couple good dounpours. They have also made it through 2 days in a row of 75-80 temps and not a cloud in the sky full sun.

My biggest few plants have nice thick stems, 3 sets of true leaves and are about 4-5 inches taller than the top of the solo cup which was filled about 3/4 of the way. Then the majority are about 2-3 inches over the top with thier second full set of true leaves.

Then about 10 are 0-1 inch above the top of the cup with only one set of true leaves. The suprising thing for me is that my daughter started some of my marglobe seed about a month ago, a full month after I started my flats, she bought one of those peat pellet starter domes. All of her plants are as tall and have better looking canopy than all but the best of my other plants. They never went under the shop lights though, only the first 2 weeks in the sunroom (including the first 5 days of germination) and then also spent the past 2 weeks in the elements.

I am not too worried about any of them though, save maybe the 10 that are really small. I just recently planted out 18 Romanesco broccoli plants which also had varying degrees of size and healthy look about them. They have been in the ground about 3 days and they all look almost identical now, they have all double to tripled in size since I put them in. The smaller ones tripling to catch up to the larger ones which may have doubled.

Now if I hade them in the ground and they had not moved in some time, I would in fact be a little worried. 3 weeks is certainly too long for a healthy tomato plant to not grow at all. I would personally dig one up carefully, find the root mass and massage it loose, then I would re-plant just to be sure it isn't rootbound. Also what is your soil like? Are you planting into clay? I don't have clay but have read where if you dig a planting hole and amend just the hole, the clay can be so much more dense that the roots could just swirl awound inside the planting hole taking the path of least resistance, essentially giving you a potted plant.

You can have, what I call, a bad spot/s in the soil for reason/s you will never know or are worth fussing with.

I have had plants do that and I either use a shovel to dig out the plant with a "root ball".
Then I put new bagged soil apprx. a foot deep and a foot around and put the tomato back in the ground with a foliar feed that has root boost in it.

I have only had one plant in the past ten years that was hell bent on dying.

OK. Thanks.

I grow tomatoes indoors hydroponically and I always use an electric toothbrush (sonic). The pollen goes everywhere and the results are excellent.

Shipping ought to be free anyway. Usually takes AT LEAST A WEEK for them to even SHIP the order. Spend your money elsewhere if at all possible. You'll get your product alot sooner...

I've had generally good luck with Burpee seeds (Brandy Boy is one of my favorites) but don't order from Burpee because of their shipping cost.
John A

I grow in SWC also, and I know Dave has several too. I agree entirely. 10-10-10 is fairly potent and 5 gallons is a small enviornment. I would think 1/2 cup, maybe a bit more would be sufficent. Your plants have that "steroid" look. You can learn a lot by reading Daves posts. =)

Yep Linda, I pay close attention to Dave's advise. He is my neighbor ya know...AR and MO.

Watch out for fish emulsion. I planted out tomatoes, peppers, eggplants and okra yesterday and used a cup of diluted Neptune's Harvest fish emulsion and seaweed to water in each plant. This morning I found some okra and pepper plants completely uprooted, probably by a raccoon looking for fish. And, by the way, bumper crop and Miracle Gro both have a lot of fertilizer in them.

Much depends on the soil prep. that the plants are going into. If you have "Loaded" the soil to the highest safe nutrient levels then adding more could do more harm than good. However if you have gone easy on broadcast fertilizers than placing more fertilizer at the root zone will often give the transplant a boost.

I plant at high density in soil in two greenhouses and usually work considerable amounts of fertilizer into the soil prior to planting. I never add additional fertilizer to those plants. In the field I sparingly broadcast and work in fertilizer and then when I plant (with a water- wheel planter) I dissolve a pound of Miracle Gro fertilizer in each 150 gallon tank of transplant water, enough for about 400 plants.

Many tomato growers fail to supplement plants later in the growing season when plants need it most. With Calcium, Magnesium, Phosphorus and minor nutrients I try to incorporate in soil prior to planting, especially with P since Phosphorus(P) is not very mobile in the soil. Plants almost always respond to later Nitrogen and Potassium supplementation beginning at about the first harvest.

Agree that most likely you did root damage and are seeing the results. For future reference never replace stakes on established plants. Add to the stake instead or put in the correct length at the planting.

As already said, no feeding, no extra watering, just wait and see. If it doesn't recover just lop off the damaged parts and hopefully the roots that were not damaged will generate new growth.

Lesson learned. :)

Dave

Thanks all!
I'm happy to say that the little fella has perked up since receiving some water. Perhaps it was just thirsty after all. Or root damaged and thirsty. In any case, lesson well learnt. Monitor water situation even more carefully esp when they are fruiting, and do not remove stake! In my defense, I had no idea at all it was going to be this big. I thought it would be a nice neat little determinate plant. But no, it's now growing taller than me, definitely indeterminate!
Thanks again :)