16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
adc e-mailed me from GW this AM and asked me what journals I read about tomato diseases, etc., so I'll answer here.
The answer is I don't read any such journals. And no one journal is sufficient to cover all areas re tomatoes.
But I've participated at many message sites in the past and same currently and when something comes up that I don't know about, in terms of a new disease, or anything else tomatoey, I then do an extensive Google search to get answers.
And over the last many decades I've kept current in that manner.
Years ago the Pest and disease Forum here was very very active , after Spike put up that Forum and the photo one as well, at the request of many here, and that so that the general Forum wasn't clogged up with disease and pest questions.
There were several of us who spent hours each day answering questions in that Disease Forum, but now I see so many such questions in this general Forum.
I also worked with the Cornell EXtension Office in several counties and learned a LOT about diseases when my tomato field was chosen as one for a disease survey comparing OP's with F1's which was done by volunteers working for the local Ext Office, under the supervision of the Directors, who were under the supervision of Drl Tom Zitter at Cornell, one of THE best tomato disease specialists I know of. And I've also taught Master Gardener classes on diseases and several other aspects of tomatoes.
The people currently posting here have not been here long, with exceptions like Dave and a few others and that's b'c in 2006 a different site opened and many went to that site and stayed there, and there are few of us who have been here a long time who still post here at all.
So no journals for me, been there and did that when I was working and grants paid for journal subscriptions which can be many hundreds of dollars/year.
But I do stay current in the manner that I described above, whether it's the spread of race 3 of Fusarium, the darn Gemini viruses that started in FL and now are spread along the Gulf Coast and on and on .
Carolyn, who, being retired has the time to do a lot of computer searching, via Google, to get answers to questions that she doesn't know the answers to or someone else wants answers. But I shy away from answering most questions here at GW about diseases, for a couple of reasons that make sense to me at least.( smile)
under a pine tree.
Under the drip line of a pine tree? Soil under a pine tree is by its nature, very acidic. Not only is acidic soil required for pines to grow but all the needles they shed every year are also very acidic and very slow to decompose and return even close to neutral.
There is ample evidence to support the lack of accuracy in the home soil test kits. Studies (see discussions here) show they will always test neutral pH, they will always test low N, and they will usually test low to normal P and K even though there is no known ow P soil in the US.
So with soil that is already acidic and now with all the peat added your soil pH is most likely well down into the acid range pH and most all nutrients are locked up in that soil and unavailable to the plants.
Lime, used to raise the pH back into a normal range takes several months to work so even after you apply it you are going to have to heavily over-dose those plants with nutrients - preferably in a liquid form so they can absorb them quickly - or dig them up and move the 3 of them to containers while they are still small enough to move.
As already mentioned a professional soil test, available for approx. $10 from your local county extension office or other local source is going to be the best way to get that bed back on track.
Dave
Actually, low P (as well as low pH) is pretty common in native CT soils, unless it's been fertilized in the past. But East Hartford is urban, who knows what Silken's soil is and where it came from. If it's under a pine tree and the pine tree isn't dying, for sure it's acidic and then you added peat which will make it even more so, unless you limed when you tilled the peat in. But you really need to get a lab test done to know what's going on. Soil sample needs to be dry, but Windsor isn't that far away and like I said CAES will do it for free, usually a week turnaround (though it was 3 weeks last month!).
At least if it's only 3 plants (?) it's not a big loss though it looks like you spent $ for drip hose? As Dave said, you can always grow tomatoes in containers (though I'd look for determinate varieties) this year, and get your soil in shape for next year.
Do you have some area of the lawn that has been limed for years and gets more sun that you could move them to?
Here is a link that might be useful: UCONN soil test interpretation
1) No experience with hydro ferts. However, Phosphorus is the P in NPK. The old teaching rhyme goes 'Up, Down and All Around'. Nitrogen stimulates top growth, phosphorus is for roots and flowers, and potassium is for all over vigor. So, with seedlings, it makes sense to give them a good root system--that's how they'll take in water and with it vital nutrients, and flowers are where tomatoes come from.
2) Grass clippings. I used to have drip hoses in the beds but the new dog chewed them to shreds when she was a puppy. I don't know if I'll be replacing them. I'm not really heartbroken over the loss of the hoses.
3) I planted seedlings last week, they barely had their true leaves. I do it each year--get them in young and they start getting their roots into the ground immediately. They were germinated outside. I do provide minimal protection from critters, bugs and birds. I cut the bottom off a water bottle, toss away the cap and push it into the soil around the seedling. When the seedling has leaves large enough to touch the bottle walls then it gets tossed in the green bin.
4)Not knowing the variety I'd have to say its their plant food.
1.) I use no hydroponic fertilizer at planting, I do sometimes throw in a little granular organic fertilizer in the hole at planting time - mostly for the beneficial microbes that are in it (tomato-tone). As far as organic fertilizers not having enough (plant available) phosphorous, that may be true, but, according to my soil tests, my soil has an excess of phosphorous so I am not really concerned about that; As an aside, I seem to remember reading that phosphorous-deficient soils are fairly rare.
2.) I layer mulch throughout the year, I use bales of hay in the early spring - generally March. I layer it deep (about 3 bales for 200 sq. ft.) and let it compact a little, then I plant through it some time in April / May. As the mulch breaks down I add some more hay some time in mid summer, generally around July. At the end of the season (November-ish), I clean up the dead / dying plants, pull the cages up and mulch heavy with stockpiles of homemade compost, and grass clippings mixed with leaves. I basically use whatever yard waste I have; I even steal some leaves from my fathers oak trees - he doesn't mind :) I use drip tape for any supplemental watering - I put it on top of the soil two years ago, and now it's been covered by a few successive mulch layers - has been working great so far. I recommend that you use mulch of some kind, but if you get lots of sun / really hot summers, and you want to use plastic mulch, I'd put some straw or hay on top of it to keep it from cooking your plant roots.
3.) I'm still conflicted about planting out tomatoes early. I'm very skeptical of weather reports, but I use them, plus a little bit of experience to judge when to put out my plants. With putting them out early you do risk losing your plants, but with my growing season, I just keep back-ups because it's worth the risk (in some cases) of losing a plant for the gamble of getting good warm weather early and getting tomatoes some time around July instead of August. I put my plants out on May 1st; So far the gamble is paying off since the weather has been great since then. All that said, if you're not sure about the weather, won't be around, and don't have back-up plants - I wouldn't chance it, though.
4.) The blue green leaves are more than likely indicative of the fertilizers they've gotten. High nitrogen will give that deep green, sometimes blue green, coloration.
Environmental stress, even though for a brief time.
Ran short of water -- perhaps excess heat but not direct light; perhaps more breezy than usual; perhaps a combo.
The key diagnostic point is that the damage is in the areas at the end of the water supply -- between the veins.
If you've ever bought potted plants and had them shipped, you'll know the various firms use a variety of packaging methods that range from wonderfully protective and effective ... to infinitely worse than you could imagine in your most horrific nightmares.
I keep a list of vendors, and one of the columns is "Don't Ever Buy Again!"
Here's how Selected Plants packs their seedlings. It's a good example of how to deal with the various issues involved in shipping delicate plants. I've never had tomato seedlings shipped to me, but this page certainly inspires confidence. Scroll down until you get to the photos:
http://www.selectedplants.com/ordering.htm
Yes, I know how Darrel packs his plants and it took him a few ways of doing it before he settled on what you see.
And not only is his packing great, but he offers a huge number of varieties and his plant costs and shipping costs are much more reasonable than lots of other places out there.
And I'm just noting that it makes a difference if someone is shipping to friends versus Darrel and others who are in business and folks are paying for the plants and shipping.
I've offered to pay for plants shipped to me in the past but my offer has always been turned down since they say something like...... what are tomato friends for. ( smile)
Carolyn
Clickable link to Raistlyn's photo:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57048076@N06/7163853410/in/photostream
No need to despair: the top one looks good! Once a flower is pollinated, it's normal for the petals to fall, as they're no longer needed. Inside the green sepals is a teeny baby tomato, which won't seem to do much for several days. See this timeline for what happens when (note that there are 8 days between when the blossom opens and when he shows the visible tomato forming):
http://www.tomatosite.com/index.php?NT=Cultivation&RE=Truss_Timeline
When "blossom drop" occurs due to lack of pollination, the entire flower falls off: yellow petals, green sepals, and about 1 cm. of the green stem. [There's a natural joint in the stem where this occurs. If you try to peek inside the sepals to see the baby tomato, the joint will sometimes break accidentally, so be gentle.]
Lucky you to have such an obvious zone as Geneva! The USDA updated our zone map earlier this year and it took me quite a while to determine that I'm probably a mile or two on the cooler 7a side of the line.
Oh thank you for th� info and encouragement!
when I see photos of tomato fruit developing, the cone shaped part of the flower kinda stays there even while the petals fall off. Mine has lost everything except the sepals, but certainly doesnt look like blossom drop hmmmm confusing! When I peeked inside just now *i think* I saw a teeny weeny green pin head inside! Could that be.... .??
Also according to the link you sent, it seems the flowers are open for quite a few days before falling off. I think mine have barely been open for 2 days ! I wasn't afraid of lack of pollination actually as I have been shaking them everyday, but more blossom drop due to unsuitable temperatures.
Link below is to all kinds of info on it - everything anyone could possibly want to know about it and then some. Note what is used is diluted sea water in the studies done (which also just happens to be nutrient rich). Got access to sea water? Otherwise do so at your own risk.
Dave
Here is a link that might be useful: Salt water irrigation yields
It is the plant's natural survival instinct kicking in. Its response to stress, in this case all the heavy pruning. Same thing causes the leaf roll. The plant naturally tries to develop new growth to compensate for the foliage lost.
If you must prune then doing it when the branches are still quite small and doing it very gradually rather than a lot all at one time is better for the plant.
It is more common in some varieties than others and is also triggered by the availability of extra nitrogen.
Dave
I think it was probably damping-off. You can read about it at sites like these:
http://gardening.about.com/od/gardenproblems/qt/Damping-Off.htm
http://www.ehow.com/how_9361_prevent-damping-seedlings.html
http://tomclothier.hort.net/page13.html
And here's the old thread that has the photos of a young plant with a narrowed stem:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg0416271013922.html
If you didn't start the plants from seed yourself, you can blame the grower.
"dryed shrivelled green leaves" is usually either a nutrient issue or a pest issue. Any sign of pests? Look for spider mite webs or aphids. What and how much have you fed it? Is it in a container? If so are you sure it isn't root bound?
Need more info please.
Dave
If the conditions in your sun room are not much different than being outdoors, then I guess it's possible for them to adjust a little faster. I can't say, since I don't have a sun room, heh.
I've never seen it personally, but the difference between my semi-shaded back porch and my garden is vast. My garden gets full sun from sun up to sun down, no shade, no protection from wind by trees or shrubs or anything. If I don't gradually harden them over at least a week or two, then I expect to see burnt plants when they hit the garden.
I notice you are in zone 5b. I am on the border of 5b and 6a and started hardening off my tomatoes 3 days ago and my peppers (which are two weeks older) a week ago. They are doing well with a gradual increase in time under the sun and some rain. But we have a forecast of night temperatures in the mid-40s over the next three nights. I plan to bring my plants in for those nights. Temps under 50 can cause a real set back in summer vegetables.
Not trying to be difficult Dave.
I just always heard trenching is shallow,offers a nice head start in my cold clammy clay soil as the upper layers warm up sooner but requires more watering later on when the dog days show up.
On the other side, I've heard planting deeply means a slower start but shines when the hot, dry days come.
I've often wondered if planting leggy seedlings diagonally would offer the best of both worlds.
Larry
You could always try it! Around here it's hard to dig a deep hole (too many rocks and ledge, thin topsoil), trenching works best if you have to, but takes up more room between plants. Deep or diagonal trenching sounds like the best of both worlds!