16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

Years ago, when I was still buying my tomato plants, I would look for the double too. I had great success with them by just taking a knife and slicing through the soil between them. If I recall correctly, they didn't even wilt. but I had repotted them indoors since we had a few weeks before they went out into the garden.

Betsy

Since you've decided you want to keep the "bonus" plant, I would recommend that you separate the two and not grow them together. If they are too close (less than at least a foot apart) they will compete for food, sun and water. The yield of each plant will be lower and the chance for disease will be much higher because of poor air circulation.

Since these plants are only 6 weeks old, I'm wondering if panentheos is talking about actual branches/suckers, or simply large leaves. Many people are confused by tomato anatomy.

If the "branch" doesn't end in a growing tip (tiny stem with miniature leaves), it's not a branch -- it's either a leaf (large, compound leaf with lots of leaflets) or a flower truss (small branch with flower buds). [In a small percentage of varieties, there may be leaflets at the end of a flower truss, and in rare cases a branch will grow from the end of the truss, but that shouldn't be seen in a 6 week old plant.]

Here are photos of leaves from different tomato varieties. Each photo shows a single leaf.
http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/Black_Cherry.html (note the side stems or petiolules, each with multiple leaflets)
http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/Black_Ethiopian.html
http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/Brandywine.html
http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/Black_Krim.html
http://www.wintersown.org/wseo1/BrandyBoy.html

As far as trimming the end leaflets off long leaves: that shouldn't be a problem. It will slightly limit the energy available to the plant. But if you have a real jungle, with the leaves of different plants tangling together, so that you have difficulty separating them without tearing the plants, trimming might be a good idea.

Thanks for the responses! I do mean trimming just the leaves, not the growing tips. And I was indeed using the wrong terminology in calling them branches, so I appreciate the correction.

It sounds like trimming the leaves back a bit won't cause major problems, except for reducing light exposure a bit. That's already happening due to the overcrowding though, so I'll probably do it to keep them from tangling up. Thanks again!

A month away - transplant ans snip. Or turn them into clone cuttings.

Dave

Thanks all, went with the transplanting and snipping. Didn't think at the time that it was too early, start em same time every year. I could have made the mistake and rushed the seedling transplant time though.

Hi Mulio & Phildeez, I wonder if you could update this thread about the Black Italian Tomatoes as I can find very little on the web. Someone gave me seed from France labeled Black Italian but that is the only information I have. The plants are very sturdy and healthy. We are hoping they will produce black tomatoes like the ones in your photos. My question is, if we save seed from these plants (assuming they are planted far enough away from other tomatoes not to cross pollinate), is it likely to produce similar plant or is the Black Italian more likely to behave like a hybrid? Any thoughts or info would be appreciated!

Fiorentino, I looked up Black Italian in Ventmarin's database, and they referred to this entry:

Italian Black OP
ou Black Italian OP
ou Italienne Noire OP

Fruit rouge sombre ovale allonge de 30 a 50 grammes. En bouquet de 8 a 12 fruits. Absence de trace a l'attache pedonculaire. Absence de trace a l'ombilic. 2 loges. Variete bien adaptee au sechage. Plant de 180 a 220 centimetres de hauteur. 65 a 75 jours. Variete fixee originaire d'Italie. [diacritical marks removed as GW doesn't show them correctly]

In case you don't read French, my rough translation is that this is a red-black with an elongated oval shape. Weight is 30-50 grams (1-1.8 oz.). Two cells/seed cavities. A good variety for dehydrating. The plant grows to about 6-7'. 65-75 days to maturity. Open pollinated. Italian origin.

They don't say, but it's apparently a plum paste.

Photos here:
http://ventmarin.free.fr/passion_tomates/tomates_i_hihi/italian_black.htm

The entry I quoted is here:
http://ventmarin.free.fr/passion_tomates/tomates_i_hihi/tomates_i.htm

And here's a link to the page in Tatiana's TOMATOBase:
http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Italian_Black

So yes, it's not a hybrid and you can save seeds.

It's also not one of the anthocyanin-rich tomatoes now being called "black" (or blue) such as the ones discussed earlier in this thread and also on the recent Indigo Rose thread
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg0322301318384.html?15
but is "black" in the sense of older varieties such as Black Krim, Paul Robeson, Black Cherry, Carbon, Brad's Black Heart, Sara Black, Nyagous, Ananas Noire, etc.

marullo

If the tomato was developed in the 50's and "What resulted was the wonderful, and soon to become extremely popular Ultomato Apocolypse." then I am sure we would have heard of it before now.

Personally, I think it is probably marketing hype of a known tomato that has been renamed so that someone could make some money off noobs who don't know any better.

If it was intended as humor, I'm guessing it missed its mark.

Betsy

That makes sense to me. Looks like I got taken (message had been forwarded to me) If it were accurate, I thought that some expert on the forum could confirm. Seemed a bit too strange to be true but some tomatoes have legends that are almost as weird. If no one here has heard of it, it must not exist.

Oops, didn't mean to go beyond a preview of the last post. Thankfully I was at least in my own thread. :)

And here I thought you were showing us how you were considering trellising the tomatoes next year. Or that it was the beginning of some fancy bird deterrent....

LOL!

Betsy

Yes we grow in them all year around. In the summer, we pull up the sides, open up the endwalls and let the breeze blow through. We usually have a good breeze all summer so that helps. But it can get warm in there. I would like to buy some shade cloth and use that to keep temps down, but I haven't made that investment yet.

Jay

Generally I think about planting just before Memorial Day weekend: plantmaps.com says 5/21-5/31 for last frost date. I'll keep an eye out for temps and they'll probably go in the ground between 5/12 and 5/20.

Terrybull: I think you mean to choose one of the second, third or fourth steps, not to take all your steps? I've never had leaf minors, but I have had other pests that any one of those last three steps would have eliminated. I particularly like spinosad, which seems gentle on the plants but deadly for most leaf sucking and chewing insects. Be sure not to apply any insecticide in full sun. I do mine in early evening.

thank you for the replies, i will try your suggestions...is it possible for the plant to recover at this point? alot of the leaf look like the photos except the new one forming at the top. this is the first time anything has been planted in that garden bed.

I noticed several of your pots have more than one seedling in them. At this stage (one or two pairs of true leaves) I think there should be no more than one plant per pot. Fertilizing seedlings often causes problems for me. I find its better to keep potting up to larger containers and use a quality soilless potting mix with some fertilizer in it. Bury the stem up to the first or second set of leaves to encourage more roots. I don't fertilize until they go outside because of the risk of burn. I think what you describe as sunburn could be fertilizer burn.

Hey! Thanks for the input Ohiofem!=) My tomatoes had 2 seedlings per pot, and I just culled them to one each today! Much more room for them to spread now!=D Anyways, it totally could be fertilizer burn! But only one leaf is like that, so I don't think it's too bad... I hope!=P I'm definitely going to be holding off the fertilizers like everyone has said, until they're ready for it. Well, hope my seedlings perk up soon!=)

Our temps were lower than predicted (grrr) and the covering I used wasn't enough for 27 degrees. I have two Husky Cherry Reds which were about 9" tall and have now lost their leaves. The lower stems are still green. I'll keep watering them and see what happens next.

Lost most of the leaves on the figs (right next to the house), all the new growth on the spring-flowering camellia (right next to the house), all the new growth on the dwarf Burford hollies on the side away from the house, much of the new growth on the inkberries I planted last fall, and most of the (very new) leaves on the young walnut trees.

Of course this is NOTHING compared to the infamous 2007 freeze.

So far the apples and cherries (which had already flowered and set fruit) seem okay.

The two podocarpus (which some people say shouldn't even be grown in anything colder than zone 8) are just fine -- even the new growth. Go figure.

I covered mine and still lost about 1/3rd of my plants. The others were damaged, but it has been my experience that a frost damaged plant will recover and do just fine; so long as the frost did not kill it.

Either one could be one of 200 or more varieties. Can't the source person provide any info?

Dave

They were in a mixed heirloom case. I guess I could call the purveyor.

I am not a tomato expert, but geraniums (pelargoniams) get edema when they are in a cool greenhouse and cannot expire water quickly enough. They completely recover when put out into the warm sun. Can you put your plants out in the sun for about a week to see if they recover?

I didn't ever figure out what was on my tomatoes, but went ahead and put them all in the ground. I had two plants die on me last year (both Green Zebra plants), and everything else turned out completely fine once I put them in the ground. It was an incredibly hot summer, so I had some issues with lack of pollination come July, but overall, they were safe as they were to be put in the garden (as far as I know anyway!). Hope that helps!

Here is a link that might be useful: Megan's Messy Garden

You might try oxhearts, they're very meaty, taste great and generally not many seeds.

ty i will look for them