16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Yeah I familiar with the study. But you can't read stuff into it - as the authors rightly point out.
The distinction I was making above - not too clearly apparently - is that folks and ad/marketing gurus (unfortunately for the average consumer) have then taken those studies to mean that just grafting, regardless of the soil condition or rootstock used, will increase production, etc. They can then hype and sell high priced grafted plants to the average home gardener who doesn't understand or need them.
The studies were done using infested soil for both grafted and non-grafted plants and using a specific rootstock. Their results do NOT claim otherwise nor do they support the many claims made by others that when grown in non-infested soil a grafted plant will out-produce a non grafted one. Nor do they claim that any rootstock will make a difference.
As for the table you link to - they are all soil borne diseases/pests and do not include any of the common tomato disease issues that affect the majority of the US tomato crops - Early Blight, Late Blight, Septoria, Anthracnose, Bacterial Spot and Speck, etc. etc. Grafting make no difference in those cases as the cause is primarily airborne and can kill a grafted plant just as easily as a non-grafted one.
Hope that clarifies.
Dave
It was pointed out that you are reading the results into the study that you want. A one-minute read of the abstract:
"MaxifortâÂÂrootstock significantly increased yield in one location (P = 0.05), but âÂÂMaxifortâ andâÂÂRobustaâ rootstock did not consistently impact yield at the other two locations.".
Another word that is easy to miss in the abstract is "ORGANIC". All trials were organic and did not address conventional growing methods. Conventional might kick butt in all three trials. You don't know.
K.I.S. If you identify a clear problem after the experience of a season, it is time to look for a solution, but don't start running with the cart before the horse.
PC
This post was edited by PupillaCharites on Mon, Feb 2, 15 at 18:28
Thanks for the advice. I try not to tell my friends what to do with their tomatoes since I don't grow in containers myself. I'll include a determinate, probably Silvery Fir Tree since one of the local stores carries the Seed Saver Seeds and I like to support that. I've ordered a couple of dwarves from Heritage Tomato seeds too.
If your season is short and not so warm (like ours here), also worth considering DTM. Though DTM is a ball park number but it has relative meaning.
So if you plant a large fruiting beefstaek with, say, DTM of 95 it might actually take longer than that.
Seysonn
It's good to see the successes, and not so successful things people have tried to grow over the years. It's fun to see folks add yet-another-variety to their yearly grow lists.
As always, YMMV: what works for some may be a challenge to others.
dave
Since you are SoCal I would say just plant a new one. You folks seem to only get about two weeks of winter like lows in the mornings there.
(Lived in a cottage on Huntington Beach for 8 months many a years ago. Surfed every dang day, and ate several tons of beach sand due to two left feet, and bad balance.) I had a tomato plant in a pot on the veranda. I had to bring it in at night in January.
If they are in soil it is going to cause you many problems. Soil does not work well in containers, and causes many problems. One of those being the yellowing leaves due to holding too much moisture.
In the future if you are going to grow in containers use potting mix. (Soil less) It is blended to grow plants in containers. Your plants will reward you for it.
Sometimes we think we are in full understanding scientifically...then things change. I try to apply common sense to science...and make decisions on those two. I remember for years the cleaning routine was to mix dutch cleanser with bleach. It really got out stains and dirt. Now we know that combination gives off toxic fumes that damage your lungs and wrecks your health.
The bigger the pot, the less often you have to water. But potting mix is expensive. My tomatoes that fell over are happily sprawling. I did get some sun burn on the bottom ones. Somehow even though I don't do everything the right way, I have tomatoes all over the counter in boxes.
I searched "tomatoes fell over" in Google and this page came up first. Just so happens I'm a member! Ha.
As for the original post, sometimes tomatoes will shoot up tall and straight, but they are always going to flop sooner or later so that's why you go ahead and stake them in some manner. I plant mine in straight rows with wire (cheap roll of small gauge flexible wire you can get at Home Depot, etc.) on either side (parallel) of landscape timbers spaced every six or eight feet. The wires start a couple of feet from the ground and I run three or four courses up to five or six feet high. As the maters grow I make sure they stay between the wires and later on use panty hose as necessary to train the errant limbs. (For better results pinch off the vines closest to the bottom as they sprout.)
But I came here to regarding seedlings in particular. They flop too and when they do it's game over.
When I first started growing my tomato plants I used a grow light. Then, later when I started buying at the store I forgot all of that. When I decided to grow again all my plants fell over. It nearly drove me crazy! The reason was that I wasn't using a light. (It only took me three seasons to re-figger out the light angle! Dumb dumb dumb!)
The moment the seedlings erupt you need to put them in the sun when possible and under a light of some kind at night. I use a couple of florescent lights.set near to the tops of the new growth seedlings. You do this and they won't flop over. Don't and they will, guaranteed.
There can be other causes for flop, most going back to careless gardening habits. But one is sneaky for the beginner. You must never ever use old moldy growing medium...You know, the half bag you had left over from last year that has fuzz on top this year. That kind of soil will kill baby plants in about a half of a wink. Use fresh, or bake the old stuff, or just be darned sure your leftover hasn't gone over.
Hope this helps. Mystery solved for floppy stringy, tall, dead tomato seedlings. Give 'em the light light light! All day and all night!
Your tomato growing pal,
Norm
This post was edited by TheNorm on Sat, Jan 31, 15 at 14:30
Cedar containers (sold at BBS) look nice but not made sturdy. If you have a table saw or just a circular saw and a drill, you can make planters much cheaper, that are nice looking and will last good long time.
Another option is reusable fabric shopping bags that cost under $1.50.
Seysonn
I'm only into the container growing process for vegetables
one year but did apply some of the successful techniques I had learned from growing flowers.
I'm no expert and am still learning but one thing I found to be of great help was mounting my containers in large saucers. I found that I was ok on water availability so long as the drainage holes in the bottom of the containers were at least partially submerged in water collected in the saucers. Also,
the saucers acted as nice reservoirs to collect rainfall and helped that way with the water availability.
Home Despot has several saucer sizes and types available
with prices varying based on size. I like the biggie 18"ers.
I wonder about the potting mix. Was it potting mix (suitable for containers?) I mistakenly bought a massive bag of organic Miracle Grow once, and when I was able to turn the bag over (after filling my containers), I noticed that it said (on the back of the bag) NOT for containers. Assuming that perhaps the reason was because of odours, I did nothing, and my plants didn't do well.
Back to your problem. Does the mix contain Coir? I have read that sometimes that can be bad.
In addition, we have to be careful or aged manure these days because some farmers feed their cattle hay that has been treated with herbicides. It goes right through the cattle, but persists in the manure, and tomatoes are very sensitive to such things.
I wish you good luck.
Linda
These were the small bags (easier to handle indoors) and definitely potting mix. I'll check on coir but MG usually uses peat.
The latter is what I think happened since it was an organic mix. Contaminated manure got into the mix. Since the repotting is really what these have in common.
I don't think it would be anything from the dryer. We don't use fabric softener or dryer sheets. And I have four bush bean seedlings that I repotted... two from a different bag. It's also showing distortion on new growth, the other two are happily chugging along with no issue.
I don't have proof for certain but the potting soil seems to be the common denominator.
Fireduck...
The heat PAD that I have (bought from Walmart) is Sunbeam brand with options:
-- 3 hour on >>shut off
-- Continuous on
-- 6 heat level settings.
-- Dimensions : 15" x 12"
-- COST: $29. +tx
I use heat setting ONE and on top of that I pad it with towel. I use a digital thermometer to check temperature at cells and adjust padding as necessary.
My average germination time is ~~ 8 days
It is small but big enough for me. I can germinate close to 30 cells at a time.
Seysonn
aqueio,
I just noticed that your containers are dark, and probably absorbing heat!
Linda
The folks in the Hydroponic Forum may have more suggestions for you.
Here is a link that might be useful: Hydroponic Forum