16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Carolyn - When somebody says they are growing Red Brandywine from TGS I feel compelled to distinguish what I am growing by adding the word Landis. Sorry if that created confusion. I havent grown the others either so I dont know if there are leaf diffferences. I can say this about the San Marzono Redorta leafs, definately skinny and pointy with more indentations on the leaf parameter. My Brandywine, although reg leaf is a fatter leaf, with fewer indentations.
Looks like a magnesium deficiency if they are all on the lower leaves. Young tomato plants often show deficiencies, so may not be an issue. There can be several causes, and maybe more. You'll have to determine why.
1. Fertilizer that lacks magnesium such as Miracle Gro, if you are using an inert medium. Epsom salts or dolomite lime might help depending on pH.
2. pH problems. High pH especially will lock out magnesium. High water pH can cause this.
3. Calcium/magnesium imbalance. Too much calcium can lock out magnesium. Hard water can also cause this.
4. Overwatering can cause uptake issues.
5. Over fertilization can cause lockout of magnesium.
I bought a couple of Husky Cherry Reds at WM a few weeks ago, tempted by our own warm March to hope for some ripe fruit before I can expect any from my still-in-the-basement seedlings (which will be late, as usual). We had lower temps than predicted one night last week, and one of the plants has a 1" white spot on a top leaf.
Your plants are probably too large for OJ cartons or 2-liter bottles, but Capoman's suggestions will work, also old sheets or any spare fabric, up-ended buckets or trash containers, etc. You don't want to risk the temps being a little lower than normal and reducing your plants to stumps....
We're supposed to have lows of 36, 30, and 36 the next three nights. My tomato was damaged on a night when the low was supposed to be 36, so I'll be protecting them starting tonight.
Agree with missingtheobvious. Take whatever steps you need in your situation even when temperatures within a few degrees of frost are forecast. Remote thermometers with alarms can be handy if you are willing to get up in the middle of the night to save plants. These are the risks of planting out early. Set them a few degrees above freezing to give you a bit of a buffer to work with.
The odds greatly favor growing conditions, not disease. Disease is the last option to be explored. So we need to know where you are located - I assume way south since you planted out so early - and if these plants are in the ground or in containers. We need to know what mix is in the containers, what fertilizer you use, how often you water, how big the containers are, any pest problems, etc. In other words, much more information please.
Dave
Sorry, I should've included more information. So here it is: I'm in southern California, zone 10. This plant was planted in a 7 gallon container, and is put out on our rooftop deck where it gets full sun about 6 hrs/day, sometimes even more. I planted it in a container with Ocean Frost potting soil, and I applied Dr. Earth tom, veg, herb fertilizer only once when I planted it in Feb of this year. I water every other day, or when the soil looks dry, I water thoroughly as I read that's the best way to water these tomato plants. I water in the morning before going to work, and I also adjust for rain (which hasn't happened that often, but it has rained pretty hard for a day or so, within the past couple weeks).
Hope that helps! :) Thanks!
Cenesia
It depends. The absolute best way to fertilize is to use weak fertilizer with every watering, rather then blast the plant all at once, then throw empty water at it. The best part of constantly watering with weak fertilizer (fertigating), is that you don't have to track how often you water, and it is self regulating according to how much watering you require. Best to start 1/4 to 1/3 dose with every watering and watch the plant's response to fine tune. This method also avoids salt buildup and overfertilization in fast draining soils.
My rant....please don't respond, just frustrated and venting. I tried 3 different seed starting mixes, dome, no dome, and perfect soil temperature. Seedlings germinate and look great, and then die....sometimes damping off, and sometimes just keeling over. I've been doing this for about 10 years, and the only other time that I had a damping off problem, I switched mixes and that cured it. I came home this morning and 2 more were keeled over. The ONLY thing that I did different this year is that I started 4 grapefruit seedlings in early March. These seedlings are near the others. I can't believe that the g'fruit plants are killing the others.
I have gotten a few seedlings to survive, but my hopes are low. Sometimes it takes a while for them to die. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason. I'm going to try it one more time with a new batch, and then call it quits for this year. I should stop now, but will try once more. At least I won't have to worry about it anymore, and that's why there are nurseries. I know that disease isn't supposed to be air borne, but that's all I can come up with...just something in the air this year. Not meant to be!!
I'm pretty sure that I figured it out. I was over fertilizing them! Both my re-plants in Pro-Mix/peat, and MG Seed Starting Mix are doing well. NO extra fertilizer. I was killing them with too much MG liquid. I'm not against fertilizing seedlings, but one must strictly stick to 1/8 to 1/4 strength. I was probably using full strength.....at least.
FYI "Tomato Leaf Roll" is a good search term. As a new gardener I have had this happen on all thirty tomato plants indicating something in the soil. It turned out to be over fertilization. Fortunately, I am using only natural ferts. I didn't think it possible, but I did place bonemeal in the pot and when the roots reached this section they became stressed. In some cases repotting solved the problem. In other cases a heavy dose of rain washed out the excess from the pots and the tomatoes were fine.
You will have nothing but problems planting in garden soil in a container. It is likely the cause of both problems you have. Check out the 5-1-1 mix from the container forum. I wish I had a better solution for you, but you'll just have to live with your results until next crop. Consider it a learning experience. The only advice I can give you at this point is to cut the bottom off (or the entire pot) and bury it in the ground. That way the ground will help with drainage.
We used to buy some from nurseries, but had too many issues with diseases and pests. Big box stores are some of the worst. Much better off starting your own indoors. My wife never liked doing seed for tomatoes and peppers as she was only using the window sill. For several years, we have been using fluorescent lights and heat mats and now have much fewer problems and much less cost, and more variety. If you are willing to look after plants when they are big, why not when they are small? It's a great break from winter starting starting seeds.
If they are outside, water every 5 to 7 days, if no rain. after a rain wait 5-7 days to water. fertilizer is good. you want to give them a side dressing after 1st fruit set. some people feed them at two week intervals with mircle grow half strenth. Good luck Bill
Thank you for responding Marianna. I mainly started this thread because of my frustration about the lack of communication from your company regarding shipping when the other companies I order from let you know when it's shipped & expected. And yes, in the past years I've had varieties that didn't germinate at all.
My email and vmail to you were about when to expect seed as I don't have a lot of spare time to start seed & want to start it all at the same time. I had already received my seed from the other places. To most on here this probably isn't an issue. It eventually did arrive so no biggie, but a simple email saying "It's been shipped, expect it on Tuesday" would have possibly nipped my vent in the bud.
NOW I have to eat crow. Apparently Matt's Wild Cherry is a late bloomer. After 4 weeks I now have a few tiny little seedlings.
Suncity - the main reason I have continued to order seed from her over the years is that she has a really diverse variety of all tomatoes. It's easier/cheaper to order from one site, even if they've had some not viable in the past.
Willys - Where did I trash anyone's reputation or "attempt to stir up the masses"? That's just silly to say- It's a freaking tomato board. Dude, you need to get a daytime job or something.
I don't think she's a horrible person. I'm sure she is a wonderful individual!
I didn't "trash" her business. I posted my experience/opinions.
I attempted to communicate and didn't get a response. I've had germination problems in the past & won't order from her again.
My experience, my opinions. :)
If they have been outside in a cold frame then they could easily have contracted Alternaria. It is a different disease from Early Blight and you can read all about it on any of the tomato disease websites. But no you do not want to use those plants. They will just spread the disease - the fungus is air borne. They need to be bagged and disposed of away from the garden.
As to fertilizer, that is your choice out of the 100's available, both organic and synthetic. Most do a hole prep including fertilizer before planting, some use liquids, and some side dress the plants with a granular. But either way you have to feed them something and do so regularly.
As far as my plants in the garden, should I pull them up and just plan to replant with the new seedlings I have or should I keep trying to save them?
Yes I realize it is stress from the weather but the damage has been done and they can't be left like they are in the pics. They will just collapse. So just as I answered above - Just trench them in - "lay them over on the soil and bury all that naked stem under several inches of soil. Just leave the tops above ground and move your cages over. Water them in well. Give then a week then feed them well."
If the weather cooperates and you feed them within 2 weeks you won't recognize them.
Dave
Thank you so much. I will work on getting the tomatoes planted tomorrow or Tuesday, although I was going to try that when I planted them initially and chickened out because I felt like I was going to break them lol.
Now my worst fear question... since it is alternaria and I had these plants in the cold frame with other tomatoes, peppers, and eggplants... will they all get it? Is there anything I can do to prevent further spread, especially since I planted out 2-3 plants in the garden that are now showing signs as well? I will pull up any with signs and dispose of the other ones right away.
As far as fertilizer also, should I worry about high nitrogen ferts now or just feed them anything at this point? I have 5-10-10 granules, 8-8-8 granules, liquid soluble miracle gro. I know high nitrogen is bad for them for the most part, but should I be concerned with that right now? I am sorry for all the questions but I think nothing is better than hearing from someone who has experienced this before :)
Fwiw, I've not planted Yellow Pear for many years simply because (imo) they're not worth the space as Dave and others point out w/ their mealy texture and bland taste.
Last year, my local nursery had a flat of mis-marked 4" pots so instead of getting Lemon Boy, which do well here in Orange County, I got Yellow Pears. Though fairly prolific and 'cute', which is why many restaurants use them in salads, I simply gave them away to neighbors along w/ some 'more desirable' varieties.
YMMV .....
"Yellow Pear sure isn't considered a good tomato. It is regularly rated as not worth the space to grow it."
Hmm. Interesting. Well, if they don't turn out to be big plants, I guess they made that worth decision on their own! I think my other cherries are going to start shading them pretty quickly.
I'll be forwarned, but I don't see any such consensus against them on the other forums I follow.