16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
It depends. The absolute best way to fertilize is to use weak fertilizer with every watering, rather then blast the plant all at once, then throw empty water at it. The best part of constantly watering with weak fertilizer (fertigating), is that you don't have to track how often you water, and it is self regulating according to how much watering you require. Best to start 1/4 to 1/3 dose with every watering and watch the plant's response to fine tune. This method also avoids salt buildup and overfertilization in fast draining soils.
My rant....please don't respond, just frustrated and venting. I tried 3 different seed starting mixes, dome, no dome, and perfect soil temperature. Seedlings germinate and look great, and then die....sometimes damping off, and sometimes just keeling over. I've been doing this for about 10 years, and the only other time that I had a damping off problem, I switched mixes and that cured it. I came home this morning and 2 more were keeled over. The ONLY thing that I did different this year is that I started 4 grapefruit seedlings in early March. These seedlings are near the others. I can't believe that the g'fruit plants are killing the others.
I have gotten a few seedlings to survive, but my hopes are low. Sometimes it takes a while for them to die. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason. I'm going to try it one more time with a new batch, and then call it quits for this year. I should stop now, but will try once more. At least I won't have to worry about it anymore, and that's why there are nurseries. I know that disease isn't supposed to be air borne, but that's all I can come up with...just something in the air this year. Not meant to be!!
I'm pretty sure that I figured it out. I was over fertilizing them! Both my re-plants in Pro-Mix/peat, and MG Seed Starting Mix are doing well. NO extra fertilizer. I was killing them with too much MG liquid. I'm not against fertilizing seedlings, but one must strictly stick to 1/8 to 1/4 strength. I was probably using full strength.....at least.
FYI "Tomato Leaf Roll" is a good search term. As a new gardener I have had this happen on all thirty tomato plants indicating something in the soil. It turned out to be over fertilization. Fortunately, I am using only natural ferts. I didn't think it possible, but I did place bonemeal in the pot and when the roots reached this section they became stressed. In some cases repotting solved the problem. In other cases a heavy dose of rain washed out the excess from the pots and the tomatoes were fine.
You will have nothing but problems planting in garden soil in a container. It is likely the cause of both problems you have. Check out the 5-1-1 mix from the container forum. I wish I had a better solution for you, but you'll just have to live with your results until next crop. Consider it a learning experience. The only advice I can give you at this point is to cut the bottom off (or the entire pot) and bury it in the ground. That way the ground will help with drainage.
We used to buy some from nurseries, but had too many issues with diseases and pests. Big box stores are some of the worst. Much better off starting your own indoors. My wife never liked doing seed for tomatoes and peppers as she was only using the window sill. For several years, we have been using fluorescent lights and heat mats and now have much fewer problems and much less cost, and more variety. If you are willing to look after plants when they are big, why not when they are small? It's a great break from winter starting starting seeds.
If they are outside, water every 5 to 7 days, if no rain. after a rain wait 5-7 days to water. fertilizer is good. you want to give them a side dressing after 1st fruit set. some people feed them at two week intervals with mircle grow half strenth. Good luck Bill
Thank you for responding Marianna. I mainly started this thread because of my frustration about the lack of communication from your company regarding shipping when the other companies I order from let you know when it's shipped & expected. And yes, in the past years I've had varieties that didn't germinate at all.
My email and vmail to you were about when to expect seed as I don't have a lot of spare time to start seed & want to start it all at the same time. I had already received my seed from the other places. To most on here this probably isn't an issue. It eventually did arrive so no biggie, but a simple email saying "It's been shipped, expect it on Tuesday" would have possibly nipped my vent in the bud.
NOW I have to eat crow. Apparently Matt's Wild Cherry is a late bloomer. After 4 weeks I now have a few tiny little seedlings.
Suncity - the main reason I have continued to order seed from her over the years is that she has a really diverse variety of all tomatoes. It's easier/cheaper to order from one site, even if they've had some not viable in the past.
Willys - Where did I trash anyone's reputation or "attempt to stir up the masses"? That's just silly to say- It's a freaking tomato board. Dude, you need to get a daytime job or something.
I don't think she's a horrible person. I'm sure she is a wonderful individual!
I didn't "trash" her business. I posted my experience/opinions.
I attempted to communicate and didn't get a response. I've had germination problems in the past & won't order from her again.
My experience, my opinions. :)
If they have been outside in a cold frame then they could easily have contracted Alternaria. It is a different disease from Early Blight and you can read all about it on any of the tomato disease websites. But no you do not want to use those plants. They will just spread the disease - the fungus is air borne. They need to be bagged and disposed of away from the garden.
As to fertilizer, that is your choice out of the 100's available, both organic and synthetic. Most do a hole prep including fertilizer before planting, some use liquids, and some side dress the plants with a granular. But either way you have to feed them something and do so regularly.
As far as my plants in the garden, should I pull them up and just plan to replant with the new seedlings I have or should I keep trying to save them?
Yes I realize it is stress from the weather but the damage has been done and they can't be left like they are in the pics. They will just collapse. So just as I answered above - Just trench them in - "lay them over on the soil and bury all that naked stem under several inches of soil. Just leave the tops above ground and move your cages over. Water them in well. Give then a week then feed them well."
If the weather cooperates and you feed them within 2 weeks you won't recognize them.
Dave
Thank you so much. I will work on getting the tomatoes planted tomorrow or Tuesday, although I was going to try that when I planted them initially and chickened out because I felt like I was going to break them lol.
Now my worst fear question... since it is alternaria and I had these plants in the cold frame with other tomatoes, peppers, and eggplants... will they all get it? Is there anything I can do to prevent further spread, especially since I planted out 2-3 plants in the garden that are now showing signs as well? I will pull up any with signs and dispose of the other ones right away.
As far as fertilizer also, should I worry about high nitrogen ferts now or just feed them anything at this point? I have 5-10-10 granules, 8-8-8 granules, liquid soluble miracle gro. I know high nitrogen is bad for them for the most part, but should I be concerned with that right now? I am sorry for all the questions but I think nothing is better than hearing from someone who has experienced this before :)
Dave, I have thought of using the planter for flowers or whatever but I guess I'm just stubborn. I just keep hoping to find some veggie that works in the durned thing... "Patio" sure didn't. (That's also why most of my tomatoes are in the garden, cause if they were only on the deck I wouldn't get many!) My youngest loves to see the tomatoes growing on the deck too, so I'll keep trying... thanks!
Marcy
My dad had a habit of over fertilizing his tomatos albeit in the ground. He usually overdid the nitrogen with bloodmeal. They were so dark green colored they almost looked blue. However, once they got their feet braced, they exploded with blossoms and tomatos. Moral of the story is when you repot don`t worry about the manure you used, just wouldn`t add more.
Hi Jay,
To answer your questions:
When can I expect true leaves to appear? Your first ones should be appearing any time now, probably in the next three or four days. (You might be able to see them starting if you look in the angle where the two cotyledon leaves meet.)
Do these look "too leggy"? ... It's not too late for me to re-seed. and When should I pot up? They do look like they could be a bit leggy, but I wouldn't be too concerned about that at this time, since you will pot up when they have their second set of true leaves. Just plant them deep when you pot up.
And to what size pots? I use 3" "Cowpots î" and they carry through just fine to 6 - 8 weeks when I put them in the garden (actually, they last until 10 or more weeks if I'm late getting them out because of cold weather like last year or other issues.)
When do I start using fertilizer? What kind? Don't. They should be fine with just what is in a quality soilless seed starting medium and then a good soilless growing medium. (Don't get one that says soil, it is not for use in pots and says so on the bag. It's too heavy and does not drain well enough for pots.)
When I do pot up, should I bury them deep like I normally do when transplanting into the garden? Yes. Some people pot up several times. I prefer to do it a single time, partly because of the number of plants I grow, and partly because I want a plant at 6-8 weeks that is 8-12" tall. Plants that are younger seem to adapt to hardening off much better than larger older ones. I have tried both and the smaller ones usually catch up and even pass the larger plants in short order.
I hope that helps.
Betsy
Here is a link that might be useful: How do I start tomatoes from seed?
Catching the ball from Remy......
It depends on which seed companites you're talking about. The smaller family run ones sometimes produce their own seed, which they usually do by fermentation, or they may subcontract out seed production or they may buy wholesale off the shelf, or a combination of those methods.
And here I'm talking about OP varieties.
Hybrid seed is produced for the US and elsewhere in several countries and that hybrid seed may be treated with TSP ( tri-sodium phosphate) or acid and that can produce seeds that are darker in color and have no fuzz and are flat.
Nothing at all wrong with those seeds but they can be smaller b'c of the treatments,etc.
TSP is often used b'c it's known that it can cleanse the seeds of TMV ( tobacco mosic virus) which can be a problem still, especially in large commercial greenhouses where it's spread mechanically, not by the usual insect vector.
Hope that helps.
Carolyn
Did the transplant5 days ago deeply in cups in Jiffy mix.
The roots were almost non-existent and they just don't seem to be coming around yet.
Have had whole lower branch with leaves on some get really soft and fall off at the stem.
Also some of those white spots are raised above the leaf surface and some of the white spots are actual raise lines.
They also don't look to be growing but just sitting there.
The raised white spot thing and the soft leaf with branch falling off makes no sense, well to me anyway. Can't really find anything googling etc.
Wondering if anyone has seen raised white spots on their seedling leaves.
Have re-sown everything in case. Have 3 or 4 weeks before I can pant outdoors. Oh well. If the new ones do ok what's a week or two.
The odds greatly favor growing conditions, not disease. Disease is the last option to be explored. So we need to know where you are located - I assume way south since you planted out so early - and if these plants are in the ground or in containers. We need to know what mix is in the containers, what fertilizer you use, how often you water, how big the containers are, any pest problems, etc. In other words, much more information please.
Dave
Sorry, I should've included more information. So here it is: I'm in southern California, zone 10. This plant was planted in a 7 gallon container, and is put out on our rooftop deck where it gets full sun about 6 hrs/day, sometimes even more. I planted it in a container with Ocean Frost potting soil, and I applied Dr. Earth tom, veg, herb fertilizer only once when I planted it in Feb of this year. I water every other day, or when the soil looks dry, I water thoroughly as I read that's the best way to water these tomato plants. I water in the morning before going to work, and I also adjust for rain (which hasn't happened that often, but it has rained pretty hard for a day or so, within the past couple weeks).
Hope that helps! :) Thanks!
Cenesia