16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
P20 and OSU related lines were not completely stable lines when originally obtained. They were not "hybrids" at that time. There has been enough time since being released that some would be stable provided someone applied selection pressure and proper isolation from outcrossing.
The jest is that what one person may call P20/OSU could be different than what another person does. Depending on how long they have had their seed, what consistent selection pressure they applied and how carefully they have maintained it would determine how stable it would be and how it performs.
I agree with the Dr and say go with Indigo Rose.
It's easy to breed in the purple traits. So there are already more purple types around (though likely not completely stabilized). Most may look interesting but end up being mostly junk. The purple traits come from wild species and one has to work against their negative carry over genetics when trying to improve the flavor. Flavor improvements too will happen if made a priority and crosses are made to better tasting lines. Improving flavor is more problematic than trying to just get the purple genes to show up.
Double up what mule said. The original P20 seed I got from Jim Myers 5 years ago were not at all stable. I saved seed from the deepest darkest fruited plant I had the first season I grew them and grew seedlings the next year that ranged from little anthocyanin to the same dark color of the parent. It is more stable for color now after a few generations of growing a single line, but the flavor is still poor. Keith's crosses with better flavored tomatoes are starting to show results. Hopefully within another year or two we will have some good tasting tomatoes that are jet black.
DarJones
Yes, they can survive and produce.
This happened to me as well last summer. Freak wind storm came out of nowhere and ripped a couple limbs off my blue tomato plant that had blossoms and even some small tomatoes on it. My first time growing a blue, and I really wanted to keep as many as I could get, so I potted the torn limbs up and hoped for the best.
Those limbs not only survived, but the fruit that was on them survived, and they continued to produce for the rest of the season.
Wasn't covered in as big of fruits as the ones on the main plant, but they were producing. Didn't even use any kind of rooting hormone, just stuck the torn end in some potting soil and crossed my fingers.
It'll look like they're wilting and dying for a while, but just keep watering them normally and they'll bounce back.
Here in Orange County, CA the last two standing out of 26 varieties I planted were an Opalka and a Black Cherry. They have survived a week of 35 to 38 degree night time lows. Even though it still had green foliage on it and still had tomatoes on it I pulled the Opalka yesterday, and will pull the Black Cherry today even though it still has green foliage and some green tomatoes on it because I have no hope of them ripening with this unusual cold spell we have been having. The partially ripe Opalkas still tasted good, but the partially ripened Black Cherries had a terrible taste.
I don't know what variety I have out there. Pulled all the markers when I thought I was going to yank the plant back in July. Decided to keep it along with a few others. The others succumbed to winds from TS Lee in September. The one that remains is a beefsteak ... probably Beefy Boy or Church. We had lows in the 20s & 30s for about a week, so I covered it and stuck a light in the cage. I see blush on one of the tomatoes today. Would love to have a fresh tomato for Christmas.
Reggie,
As I understand what you are doing you are essentially "potting up". And I realize you are going from and to the same sized pot.
There are broadly differing opinions about the advantages/disadvantages of potting up so far as plant development is concerned. For the past several years I have planted into 18 in trays. I put 5 seeds into each cup
then transplant out to the same sized trays. The cups
measure 3.5x3.5x3.5.
Years ago I started in smaller cups, potted up 2 or 3 times
and everything was ok so long as I was limiting my labor to
maybe 2 dozen plants total. But now I grow about 60 per year and give away at least 150 more to friends. Maybe some less this year if I can just sum up some self discipline!
I do note a small difference in the vigor of transplanted seedlings--they seem to a bit better to me but not by much.
But I have had ample chance to observe downstream performance of plants given to friends and compare that to
the non-transplanted plants I save for myself. I feel any differences ever noted are easily charged to soil and cultural methods.
Now I do put a lot of the stem of my plants underground when I plant so that they can develop lots of side roots to feed nutrients up into the fruit and foliage. Most others don't do this so maybe what I observe is from more a difference in cultural practices than seedling development practices.
Suggest you might want to try an experiment with one of your varieties.
I'm also a true believer in Avtinovate. I have been using it for three years and will do so next year. I order it from the internet; sure it's a bit pricey, but on the other hand it
only costs about the same as 1 case of beer and takes care of the whole year (which 1 case of beer certainly will not!).
Likely the folks over on the Florida Gardening forum might have some specific recommendations pro and con. But theoretically, given the right planting times - which is quite different for you than for much of the country - and the proper growing conditions there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to grow any variety.
The deciding factor is the growing conditions you provide, not the variety itself.
Dave
I didn't get to re-pot or set them outside last week due to my work hours.
They have perked up and started sprouting new leaves/branches on the lower part of the plant where I trimmed some not so good looking branches.
The only change was temps. They are in a house that I am remodeling before I move in. The painter guy turned up the gas logs in the next room to make it more comfortable for him and better paint drying conditions. An average of 70 degrees.
Since I can't check on them every day, I'm thinking about not re-potting. The painter is slow and cheap, Really good on repairs, only works about 2 hours a day. So he will probably be there 2 months or more.
Think I should leave them alone for now?
o_w, one of the pages I saw ... somewhere ... showed photos of the silicon grafting clips, including one of a clip falling off the stem when it grew to a certain diameter. Apparently they are designed to do that.
Maybe "the bit on the side" is the mechanism whereby the clip knows when to fall off?
Should have tried a Google Image search yesterday. All sorts of interesting photos....
Here are photos which show pinching one side of the clip to open the "tube" part wider so you can slip it over the stem. That might be the reason for your "bit on the side."
http://vegetablegardendjp.blogspot.com/2010/05/tomato-grafting-with-pictures.html
That blog refers to a video at Johnny's. Johnny's has lots of videos and other helpful stuff. The third video here is about grafting tomatoes:
http://www.johnnyseeds.com/t-video.aspx#instruct
However, that's a different type of clip and a different technique than I've seen elsewhere.
Here's the photo of the grafting clip falling off; detailed info on grafting tomatoes too:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Horticulture/Tomato
You might also want to read the longer version:
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~clrivard/TubeGraftingTechnique.pdf
[Pardon me while I cheer a bit for my state's university which published that.]
Here's the Google Image search; maybe you can locate a vendor this way. In any case, there are lots of photos and you might find other good info.
Google Image search tomato grafting clip
Good luck with your grafting!
The bit on the side of the smaller clips serves as a handle and you can pinch that side to slightly open the hole on the other side where the scion and rootstock stems go. If you're grafting smaller plants, the silicon clips make it fairly easy to create a joint that won't move as it heals.
If you're trying to do larger plants and you're a patient person, you can use a length of silicon tubing, split along one side so that it will fall off when the stems get large. In my experience, this takes a bit more patience to use (no handles)and I've found that a bit of porous surgical skin tape along one side of the joint can help hold things in position until you get the tubing in place. I'd consider buying tubing in slightly different diameters in case your plants are different sizes at the time you're ready to graft. Ideally, the inside diameter of the tubing should be small enough to hold the joined stems snuggly without pinching.
I can't speak for others but when working in the tomato patch I always had several outfits dedicated to just working with the tomatoes, for the very reason you noted as to staining of clothes.
Maybe someone knows some special soap, or chemical, but I just washed my increasing green tinted clothes and watched them get greener and greener as the years passed, and when they were so tatty and green I started with a new set of tomato clothes.
Same with sneakers, which I usually wore in the tomato field.So at one time I could have what I called my dress sneakers, then dress sneakers slightly soiled, then usually two pairs of tomato sneakers in case one pair got wet so I'd have a dry pair for the next day. ( smile)
Carolyn, who grew a heck of a lot more than just tomatoes, so really should be saying special dedicated gardening clothes and sneakers.
I had a good year for both, but know people all over the US that had the worst year ever. I heard that entire gardens were ruined.
In my area, I think a cool and wet spring going straight to hot and fairly wet summer created unusual diseases, especially for the tomatoes.
My goal is to plant my tomatoes earlier, with protection. My peppers do nothing if I plant too early, so that's a waste of time.
Tomatoes can't pollinate if the daytime highs are in the low 90s or above; the pollen is not viable. Same problem if the nighttime lows are above 75.
If temperatures are below 55, pollination can't take place either. Using Blossom Set spray enables fruit to set in those temperatures, but the fruit are frequently misshapen.
At temps above 96, lycopene (the pigment in red tomatoes) cannot form, so fruit of red-fruited varieties cannot ripen.
If the soil temps are above 90, the roots have major problems.
Cherries and small-fruited types seem to perform better in high temps.
At temps below 60, the plant is too cold for growth to occur.
Humidity and greenhouse varieties I can't help with.
Be sure to use a fan that will reach all the vines -- or manually shake them every day -- to ensure pollination; still air is a problem unless you have insects to pollinate or shake the blossoms.
tomato plants will bear larger fruit if they are well pollenated. pollenation creates seeds, more seeds = bigger tomatoes. I use the electric toothbrush technique for pollenating my indoor and outdoor tomatoes. you can google the technique, but basically you take turn on an electric toothbrush with the bristles lightly touching the base of the flower. the vibrations shake loose the pollen and fertilize the tomato.
I bottom water my tomato plants. I put one seed in each 16 oz. styrofome cups with holes in the bottom. I set them in the bottom of milk jugs that I cut the top off. I keep two cups in each with about one inch of water in them all the time.
As for soil. I plant them in nothing but composted oak leaves.
The leaves do stay a little yellow, but when they are planted in the ground they quickly green up.
Click the link. Here is a photo of my tomatos ready to be planted in the ground. I planted them in bigger pots. Now I use smaller pots. Bigger pots are harder to plant out. I started these earlier. I grow my seedlings on the porch with a window to the south.
Karyl
Here is a link that might be useful: Tomatos ready to plant out.
Tomatoes can be grown hydroponically, which can have roots continuously immersed in water. I would suspect lack of air in the root systems if there is no aeration of the water. It could also be caused by lack of carbon dioxide.