16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

Hallandalegal, are the wild glades plants available anywhere a little north of you? I live in Boynton Beach and getting ready to plant a few more plants this week.

I'm very new to this forum. I thought the issue with tomatoes and squash setting fruit in hot weather was the night time temps. I live in central Florida where the temperature remains above 80 degrees at night from late spring to early fall. I had never heard the theory about heat and humidity before but it�s an interesting thought. I garden in a vertical hydroponic growing system so the roots are cooled by recirculation of water and nutrients. My tomatoes and squash did set fruit all summer but I expect much better results now that the weather has turned a little cooler.

Posted by digdirt 6 -7 AR (My Page) on Sun, Oct 16, 11 at 12:03

Dweomer - according to your member page you are a commercial hydroponic grower. Hydroponic growing under cover isn't comparable. It is a whole different ballgame.
The originally referenced video sounds like it is just another part of the so-called "Organic Tomato Magic" rip-off that has been discussed here several times in the past. Linked one discussion below. Just Google that phrase for more info.

The authors of it have several different websites etc. all devoted to selling their book.

Dave
**********************

Hi Dave,

I agree, it sounds like hype to me too.

I was answering the concern that removing the bottom leaves would inhibit photosynthesis. We find that, once the vegetative growth phase is well established (about when the first fruits begin to ripen) removing the bottom branches helps with the culturing of the plants and does not inhibit plant growth or photosynthesis.

Everybody has their own techniques. Some are transferable between systems and some are not. I have also grown determinate field tomatoes on a commercial scale and we removed the bottom leaves as I described in my first post.

Thanks.

Here's a picture of when we were trimming them back to about 5 feet of foliage per plant. The vines in these photos are about 15-18 feet long. We later settled on about 3-3.5 feet of foliage as the best system for our greenhouses.

Again, it's a technique.

turns out this isa variant of the night shade family, apparently used in many cultures...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiâÂÂki/Solanum_nigrum

here is a picture of the white flowers (making it not the deadly nightshade...whew!)

Looks like Garden Huckleberry/Solanum melanocerasum. A lot of tomato seed vendors are selling seed for this so you may have gotten some in your tomato seed. Then again it could a gift from a bird and you wouldn't know for sure what Solanum it is.

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Huckleberry

Thanks. I've never sterilized either, and I was thinking what you said, Dave, nothing for the diseases to survive on, but I got a little paranoid after the diseases this year :)

I use a spray bottle filled with bleach. I spray them, let them sit for a bit and then hose them off. Don't know if it makes a difference or not, but it makes me feel better.

Yes John, I do consider the original Rutgers released first in 1928 to be a commercial heirloom b'c it pre-dates about 1940. And since the 1933 version is just an improvment on the 1928 one, then that one as well. Dates for all the others are not easy to find but I could if I were to spend time with my SSE YEarbooks, which I'm not going to do. LOL Maybe if you click on the linksat Tania's page for some of the later versions you can find the dates.

There are various Rutgers strains out there and Tania has included almost all of them on her page of Rutgers and the history and seed sources are there as well.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Rutgers and friends

You can find a good bit of info at ncsu. For example:

Rutgers 8828 - Breeder: Corneli Seed Co., St. Louis. Parentage: selected out of Rutgers. Characteristics: earlier, larger fruit and more productive than Rutgers. Resistance: tolerant of fusarium wilt. Adaptation: full season tomato areas. Corneli Catalog no. 15. 1951.

http://cuke.hort.ncsu.edu/cucurbit/wehner/vegcult/vgclintro.html

DarJones

THe only reason I know of to not grow tomatoes for many years in the same spot is the build up of spores and bacteria that are shed from the foliage of infected plants and then the next year they can reinfect due to what's called splashback due to rian or irrigation.

Several years ago I know that SSE had to create new tomato growing areas b'c of that kind of build up. And one can help prevent infection of foliage with the fungal pathogens with a good anti-fungal but it's not so easy with the bacterial foliage pathogens.

And there are also some folks who have soilborne diseases in their soil that can be cause for concern as evidenced by infected plants.

I used to grow my tomatoes in a field where I had about 12 rows, 250 ft long and 5 ft between rows and I grew tomatoes in that same field for about 15-16 years. But every fall my farmer friend who prepared the field for me plowed deeply and that buried the foliage pathogens. Using a tiller doesn't accomplish the same depth.

Those who grow just a few tomatoes can mulch them well and that cuts down on splashback infection as well. All new foliage infections are via air and embedded in rain droplets.

Hope that helps.

Carolyn

Mine have been the same spot for 35 years with little problem.
JMO,
Tom

Thanks for your replies. I had high hope for this one, but it sure didn't pan out.

My seed is from Victory Seeds, and they reference "National Seed Storage Lab" etc. Of course, it's always possible that I received the wrong seeds. *None ripe thus far have any blush.* I'm going to leave a couple on the vine until they fall off or rot to see if a blush appears and/and the taste improves. (However, they are already mealy, so I don't think it's a case of being under-ripe.)

The Earth Box -- these are wonderful (IMO) products. I get my first ripe "full-sized" tomatoes by the end of June here in 5b with no real "tricks." With concentrated, determinate toms, I can grow two "crops" in the boxes. I originally got a couple of EB's because my eggplant died nearly every year. Still, I rarely have any problem with any tomato disease, except Septoria which is typically more of a nuisance than anything more serious.

Golden Girl Hybrid? My absolute favorite tomato, but it is determinate, and has a pretty short production "window." I was hoping that Golden Queen would make a similar, great tomato, but indeterminate and much longer producing. I've grown Sunray and Mountain Gold before. Sunray is great-tasting, and to be honest, I don't remember much about Mountain Gold -- maybe 20 years since I grew it last?

Anyway, think I'll write to Victory Seeds and see what they say.

-WC2K8

Here is a link that might be useful: Victory Seeds -- Livingston's Golden Queen

National Seed Storage Lab, aka NSSL, indicates that the variety was obtained ultimately from the USDA NSSL lab in Fort Colllins, CO.

It's the same one that Craig and I also have and listed in the SSE Yearbook many years ago.

I don't think there's anything that Mike at Victory can tell you if the fruits you have are golden in color.

And that's b'c radial and concentric splitting can happen due to weather conditions and there are many variables that influence taste as well. As for the blush, the expression of some genes is also weather related and can't be controlled. Same for texture as in you comment about mealiness.

If others like it, and it does grow well in a 5b area, but I don't know what 5b area you're in nor do I know what your weather was this past summer, then if it were me I'd try it again. If a variety comes to me with positive comments and that's not what I experienced, then I always grow it again.

And yes, I know all about earthboxes, well, all I can know from friends who use them, and most love them.

If you're still interested in some varieties that are in the yellow/gold/orange color range of varieties and are indet, not det, please just gently holler. LOL

Carolyn

"The major problem I see with folks saying this or that variety as grown by a home gardener appears to be resistant/tolerant to either EB or Septoria is that it can't be made on just one growing of the variety b'c the incidence of both diseases is variable in a specific location, from year to year." [Carolyn]

True. And I didn't mean to imply that the few varieties I said made it through for me are Early Blight or Septoria resistant ... just that they made it all the way through with no fruit spots or totally downed vines and gave me a fair season's worth of good quality fruit, with Early Blight and Septoria both present in and destructive to my other vines.

for 2011 i had 3 main tomato locations, about 260 plants. one was my cornfield tomato that had to compete with the grasses and flowers and had no disease problems at all, no blight no septoria, but, they got massacred by deer when a corporation developed the neighboring wetlands and they all decided to live with me.
my second location is my mother's kitchen garden which is irrigated compost raised beds surrounded by lawn. this is the most pest and disease ridden area. it is rare that the raised irrigated beds do not suffer compete population mortality when the blights come through, which seems to me like a problem with ecological abuse and over irrigation causing fungal bloom.
my third location is my kitchen garden which is similar to the cornfield only it gets more shade and much more groundwater. nothing has died of late blight yet in my garden even though we're into october. this location has non-fatal septoria so i can more easily judge which varieties are more capable of producing through it. i will list my bests and worsts.

best:
japanese black trifele
purple calabash
matt's wild cherry

worst:
brandywine
yellow brandywine
caspian pink
sugar cherry (the most afflicted plants but the production stayed constant. a strange thing to see.)

Yea, I have a bunch of green ones too. The question I have,do they really grow any more if i leave them a few more days or might I just as well go ahead abd pick them

If they have a little bit of color on them they can be picked and will ripen just fine days later. I picked a bunch of all green ones before, even small green ones that looked really immature. They all did ripen eventually. The really green and immature ones took a while though, several weeks. However, they did not look too good. They were wrinkly looking and I did not eat them.

Without a doubt the color is the most unique aspect of the tomato. I've never seen anything like it. It's not red, yellow, or orange nor is it a combination of the above (most bi-colors I've grown are generally yellow with streaks of red or vice versa, maybe with some green thrown in).

I've lost the light for tonight and a flash would distort the colors but tomorrow I'll snap a picture of it next to some red, yellow, and orange varieties to give a better sense of the unusual salmony/peachy color. It's also pretty uniform in color inside. It doesn't have streaks of different colors through it, which has also been my experience with bi-colors I've grown.

I'll also let some of them ripen/over-ripen to see how the color evolves if this one was on the under-ripe side.

Here's how I see it.

There were volunteers that you believe to be from some red hybrids although you don't know for sure.

I can't see reversion of any red hybrids reverting to what the others were that you mentioned.

However, if he were growing any other varieties, perhaps some OP ones, then some of those volunteers could be the result of a cross pollination or indeed even aspecific variety.

I'm not sure it looks like a typical gold/red bicolor, at least the ones that I've grown, which is quite a few.

So I think the first thing you should do is to save some seeds and sow them again next year to see if all seeds give rise to the same plants and fruits that you've shown us or if it was ther result of a natural cross then it's the saved F2 seeds that you save, then be sure to put put enough plants from those F2 seeds so you can see any genetic segregation which should occur if the fruits you show are actually hybrid.

Long paragraph, there, so if you have any questions, please just ask.

Finally, no one can ID it for you as has been mentioned above and the reasons given for that were also given above and just now by me. That is, you have no starting point b'c you don't know exactly which varieties were planted by the landlord, so if you could ask, that might also help.

Carolyn

I've grown both varieties together for two years. Last year Brandyboy outproduced Brandywine, but not by much. The Brandywines tasted a bit better. Both were very good. So far this year, the Brandywines are outproducing the Brandyboys and the Brandywines taste a lot better. This season's Brandyboy seems a bit sickly - not bad, mind you, but a little more yellowing of the lower leaves than normal.

It's my fourth year of growing tomatoes, and I've come to realize that there are many factors affecting taste and production, and that chance has a lot to do with your results. Not that we can't improve our controls upon the environment, but no matter what we do, mother nature's still a b*tch that smiles one moment and laughs in our faces the next. But hey, that's part of what makes gardening an entertaining challenge.

Take care,
Scott in Napa

I do not grow Brandywine tomatoes here they will not take the heat. But this last year I grew Brandy Boy and I am wondering it is not the perfect tomato. Large, great taste, very productive. I will definitely be trying this one again.