16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

In a perfect world we could give every plant we grow the ideal conditions it needs. But the reality is that most of us have limited space and we cannot provide 8+ hours of sun for every plant we grow. We need to pick and choose and play favorites.

In my experience, cherry tomatoes do just fine in shadier conditions. 3-4 hours of direct sun should be enough to ripen a sizable crop. Cherry tomatoes can be so prolific that a somewhat reduced crop can be a blessing.

Smaller fruited tomatoes like 'Stupice' will also do just fine in 3-4 hours of direct sunlight. I find that it is only the tomatoes with fruits consistently larger than 3-4 oz. that will have difficulties in the shade. They never seem to produce much or to ripen.

HOWEVER, one thing you will encounter in shadier conditions is that it will take the tomatoes longer to ripen. You should add at least 2-3 weeks to the estimated DTM if you are growing in the shade.

Hope this helps,
Ispahan

I grow "wild" cherry tomatoes (currant-type really) in pots.
In the spring, full sun.
In the summer, I move them against the North side of the house in bright shade so they'll keep producing.
In the fall , they go back into full sun.
They overwinter there and I protect them from freezes.
They're perennial.

Basically, if it's too hot during your summers to normally grow tomatoes, planting cherry tomatoes in bright shade will help you extend your growing season into the summer.

Ok, I guess my whole yard just got lucky this year, haha. Here is a picture of what the 'eggs' seem to be producing; these growths are appearing in several gardens, not just the tomato garden. I haven't seen any vultures yet, though...

Lovely. Now you know why I call this particular stinkhorn the "dog thingie" mushroom.

Did you happen to put out a bunch of new mulch this year? Anyway...enjoy! You'll only have to wear a clothes pin on your nose for a few weeks.

"There seems to be a lot of leaves that are just wilted. Not sure if that is due to too much water or not enough water."

See link below for a discussion of tomato wilt.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato Wilt

We have removed about 5 caterpillar or hornworms from one of the plants ... also some leaves that look like they had eggs on them. I assume that as long as we remove these we should be ok.

The eggs might be for good or bad bugs.

Hornworm eggs are spherical, laid singly on the underside of the leaves; when first laid, they are light green, then becoming pearly or white.

Tomato Fruitworm eggs are round and creamy white, developing a reddish-brown band as they near hatching (those that turn black have been parasitized by tiny wasps -- not the ones that sting people). I have read that they are laid singly on the undersides of leaves -- but I've seen a photo of disorganized groups of tumbled eggs (some in piles):

Armyworm eggs are white, turning buff or yellow. They are laid in groups of 200-300 on the undersides of leave and they can be piled 2 or 3 deep. [But if you had Armyworms, you'd know it.]

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I suppose that any tomatoes infected would have an entry or exit hole in them.

Fruitworms leave noticeable holes; the Tomato Fruitworm damage I see is a single large entry/exit hole with an empty round chamber excavated inside the tomato (how deeply depends on the tomato's size when entered). Fruitworm damage scars over, so these tomatoes usually do not decay (but if rain enters the hole, the fruit will rot). The damaged side reddens early, but usually you can harvest the tomato when ripe, cut away the region the Fruitworm damaged, and use the remainder: I've done it before, and there's one in the kitchen which I should use real soon now.

I've seen photos of fruit with more than one hole; I don't know if that's multiple Fruitworms or another type of caterpillar; I've never seen anything like that in my garden, where Tomato Fruitworms are much more common than Hornworms.

Hornworms just eat across the tomato. Think of a backhoe removing scoops of earth in somewhat-regular rows and layers to excavate a really big hole.

There is also a Tomato Pinworm which leaves obvious damage in the outer layers of the tomato. In the US, they're found only in TX, CA, and HI -- but if you bought greenhouse-grown seedlings, you could have them (they would not survive the winter to bother you the next year).

That looks like septoria leaf spot, which is a fungal disease.

Here is a link that might be useful: Septoria Leaf Spot

Use a fungicide with chlorothalonil in it, like Daconil, to prevent fungal infections of tomato plants.

Here is a link that might be useful: Septoria Reference

I don't think it is a nutritional problem. I always get diseases and bugs when I buy seedlings from anyone. It almost never happens when I grow my own from seeds. So mcuh cheaper and satifying too!

My two bits worth:
I notice you're also from soCal so I have some thoughts.
Firstly: I believe in soil... and your problem is confined to a certain soil sector. But you've already addressed that subject.
Secondly: Seasonal Timing is important, in soCal. Some folks might dispute this, because of our very long growing season. But tomatoes are seasonal, and I have personally observed that plants that get a late start perform poorly, and even appear stunted, compared to other plants in the same garden, the same soil... all other things being same.
Thirdly: The timing of the individual plants matter; i.e., after they've borne fruit, they fade. Are the plants in question late in their life cycles? I suspect NOT; but I wanted to mention this, since you were silent on this point.
Forthly: Pot size. A plant will appear small and frail, if it cannot build adequate root base.
Fifthly: Nutrition. My potted plants have performed poorly, compared to in-ground plants, in recent years. I am looking squarely at the inadequate nutrition of the potted soil; the evidence is overwhelming.

Good luck.
Just thought I'd add a few points possibly overlooked.

Wow! Frost every month!! Now I understand : ) As long as you can control the temps better and get the air flow, you will be successful next year.
Another idea is of course pots with small determinates or dwarfs outside that can be easily moved into the greenhouse should cold night temps be approaching. With those types of tomatoes, the pots do not need to be large.
Here's a determinate cherry tomato in a pot.

Remy

Thanks for the help Looks like I'm going to start a shopping list for next year - max/min thermometer, small fan, automatic vent opener. After the disappointing year here (Did I mention the deer jumped the 6 foot fence and had a heyday?)I'm ready for some successes Thanks again.

Heat alone won't do it, neither will moisture alone; but I thought everyone knew that. Life is all about balance.

I have a new way to germinate tomato seeds. It is utterly simple.

In my bathroom lavatories and showers, I keep fine wire-mesh stainless steel strainers in the drain exits, to keep hair from clogging my pipes. I put some very fresh tomato seeds... from this year's recent fruit... but fermented... in the strainers and they visibly germinate in less than 4 days. The obvious explanation is that frequent wetting by tap water stimulates germination. All I have to do is go about the business of daily life, washing, etc. Soap doesn't hurt 'em a bit, because the water flow is so much greater than any chemical presence.

I got the same results from last year's fermented-and-dried tomato seeds. (Be reminded that "fermented" means that the gel-coat has been stripped from the seed.)

I carefully migrated the tiny sprouts to a tray of composted soil... 1" thick... but with the seedlings tucked in only about 1/8". I keep this soil in a pot drainer tray, right next to the same lavatory where I wash my hands. There is only indirect, dim daylight in my bathroom, though I occasionally, briefly turn on artificial lights.

After a few days, I moved these growing seedlings outside, on the theory that they should benefit from sunlight before their "batteries" ran out. Given the various forms of abuse they suffered, from root shock to desert-like scorching sunlight, half of them perished. But half of these seedlings are roaring. So I will attempt a winter crop, here in so. Cal... in a place there the plants get several hours of sunshine, every day... beneath an eave.

I have other experimental results that upset my previous misconceptions about germinating tomato seed. My best results, prior to this bathroom strainer thing, were gained by putting seeds outside, in deep shade, in moist composted, loose soil. The seedlings prospered for many days, if not weeks, under such low light conditions. Eventually I transplanted the seedlings to tiny individual pots, and kept transplanting them as they grew larger, as they became root-bound.

It is a mistake to think that seeds, or even seedlings (which are running on battery power), need direct sunlight. What they want is moisture, moderate temperatures, and a chance to set roots in loose soil. Keep the lighting modest, in the early going; it's superfluous.

Don't desiccate your little ones with fallacious beliefs.

If I squash the leaf miners or remove the leaves, won't that do as much damage as the leaf miners themselves?

If you squish the leafminers, you damage a bit of the leaf, but save the remainder of the leaf from being mined. I imagine it's best to be careful not to damage the major veins.

If you remove (then bag and get rid of) the damaged leaves before the leafminers have pupated, you eliminate the next generation of miners.

In a thread earlier this year, planatus said it was safe to remove up to 30% of a tomato plant's leaves (in case of damage of one sort or another). [I can't believe I actually located that thread!]

Ahh, ok, I think I see.

Ildi keeps splitting and splitting and splitting.

Not so with the others.

Thanks

Reviving this thread. This year Yellow Pear were one of my strongest performers. Resisted cracking and had a nice, sweet yet balanced taste despite the bad tomato weather.

My friend 4 blocks away had his plants touched by frost and mine are still fine. My thinking is that by that late at night, it is cool and almost 100% humidity so there isn't much evaporation if at all. Plants stayed wet until the sun hit them in the morning. Water is a fabulous thing, it takes alot of energy for it to undergo a physical change. So far the 10 day forecast says that I'm safe through next weekend for now.

You could do one plant each of different types of frost protection and see what gives the best results.