16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
That looks like septoria leaf spot, which is a fungal disease.
Here is a link that might be useful: Septoria Leaf Spot
Use a fungicide with chlorothalonil in it, like Daconil, to prevent fungal infections of tomato plants.
Here is a link that might be useful: Septoria Reference
My two bits worth:
I notice you're also from soCal so I have some thoughts.
Firstly: I believe in soil... and your problem is confined to a certain soil sector. But you've already addressed that subject.
Secondly: Seasonal Timing is important, in soCal. Some folks might dispute this, because of our very long growing season. But tomatoes are seasonal, and I have personally observed that plants that get a late start perform poorly, and even appear stunted, compared to other plants in the same garden, the same soil... all other things being same.
Thirdly: The timing of the individual plants matter; i.e., after they've borne fruit, they fade. Are the plants in question late in their life cycles? I suspect NOT; but I wanted to mention this, since you were silent on this point.
Forthly: Pot size. A plant will appear small and frail, if it cannot build adequate root base.
Fifthly: Nutrition. My potted plants have performed poorly, compared to in-ground plants, in recent years. I am looking squarely at the inadequate nutrition of the potted soil; the evidence is overwhelming.
Good luck.
Just thought I'd add a few points possibly overlooked.
Wow! Frost every month!! Now I understand : ) As long as you can control the temps better and get the air flow, you will be successful next year.
Another idea is of course pots with small determinates or dwarfs outside that can be easily moved into the greenhouse should cold night temps be approaching. With those types of tomatoes, the pots do not need to be large.
Here's a determinate cherry tomato in a pot.
Remy
Thanks for the help Looks like I'm going to start a shopping list for next year - max/min thermometer, small fan, automatic vent opener. After the disappointing year here (Did I mention the deer jumped the 6 foot fence and had a heyday?)I'm ready for some successes Thanks again.
I have a new way to germinate tomato seeds. It is utterly simple.
In my bathroom lavatories and showers, I keep fine wire-mesh stainless steel strainers in the drain exits, to keep hair from clogging my pipes. I put some very fresh tomato seeds... from this year's recent fruit... but fermented... in the strainers and they visibly germinate in less than 4 days. The obvious explanation is that frequent wetting by tap water stimulates germination. All I have to do is go about the business of daily life, washing, etc. Soap doesn't hurt 'em a bit, because the water flow is so much greater than any chemical presence.
I got the same results from last year's fermented-and-dried tomato seeds. (Be reminded that "fermented" means that the gel-coat has been stripped from the seed.)
I carefully migrated the tiny sprouts to a tray of composted soil... 1" thick... but with the seedlings tucked in only about 1/8". I keep this soil in a pot drainer tray, right next to the same lavatory where I wash my hands. There is only indirect, dim daylight in my bathroom, though I occasionally, briefly turn on artificial lights.
After a few days, I moved these growing seedlings outside, on the theory that they should benefit from sunlight before their "batteries" ran out. Given the various forms of abuse they suffered, from root shock to desert-like scorching sunlight, half of them perished. But half of these seedlings are roaring. So I will attempt a winter crop, here in so. Cal... in a place there the plants get several hours of sunshine, every day... beneath an eave.
I have other experimental results that upset my previous misconceptions about germinating tomato seed. My best results, prior to this bathroom strainer thing, were gained by putting seeds outside, in deep shade, in moist composted, loose soil. The seedlings prospered for many days, if not weeks, under such low light conditions. Eventually I transplanted the seedlings to tiny individual pots, and kept transplanting them as they grew larger, as they became root-bound.
It is a mistake to think that seeds, or even seedlings (which are running on battery power), need direct sunlight. What they want is moisture, moderate temperatures, and a chance to set roots in loose soil. Keep the lighting modest, in the early going; it's superfluous.
Don't desiccate your little ones with fallacious beliefs.
If you squish the leafminers, you damage a bit of the leaf, but save the remainder of the leaf from being mined. I imagine it's best to be careful not to damage the major veins.
If you remove (then bag and get rid of) the damaged leaves before the leafminers have pupated, you eliminate the next generation of miners.
In a thread earlier this year, planatus said it was safe to remove up to 30% of a tomato plant's leaves (in case of damage of one sort or another). [I can't believe I actually located that thread!]
The plants of different varieties can and do respond differently to different weather and environments.
The temperatures you state and being in sun all the time are not good at all for any seedlings. As far as that goes, when the plants get larger with those temps and humidity it's going to be difficult for the plants to even set fruit and you'd probably see a lot of blossom drop as well.
For now I think if it were me I'd put those 7 week old seedlings in only partial sun for just a couple of hours.
Do you expect those conditions as to temps and humidity to be the same in the future and if so for how long?
No, it's isn't normal for Box Car Willie to develop leathery leaves. It's a variety that I introduced by first listing it in the SSE YEarbook many years ago so I know it well. The high temps and rain are no doubt a problem and the plant is very stressed and is reacting in that way,
Hope that helps.
Carolyn
Thanks Carolyn!
It gets slightly cooler in November and December during our rainy season. I'll follow your suggestion and put the seedlings in an area with some morning sun and shade for the rest of the day. It's sometimes breezy out in the garden too, so hopefully it helps with the temperature.
Hopefully I can salvage the seedlings as they have been growing well right up till last week!
My friend 4 blocks away had his plants touched by frost and mine are still fine. My thinking is that by that late at night, it is cool and almost 100% humidity so there isn't much evaporation if at all. Plants stayed wet until the sun hit them in the morning. Water is a fabulous thing, it takes alot of energy for it to undergo a physical change. So far the 10 day forecast says that I'm safe through next weekend for now.
Me, me! *waves hand frantically* I have a cattle panel trellis and I love it!
Note that mine is a trellis rather than an arbor. I have no experience with cattle panel arbors except that I may someday use one as a gateway.
My panels are an extra-heavy weight -- that type just happened to be on sale; I'm sure the regular weight would be fine if well-supported. Unlike concrete reinforcement wire (CRW), the panels will not rust, so you don't have to worry about them weakening with time (though even CRW lasts ten or fifteen years or more, IIRC).
My panels are held up by T-posts (one at each end or where the panels join). The panels are attached to the posts with what looks like aluminum wire about 1/8" thick, near the top and bottom of the panel. Where the panels join, they overlap by a few inches or one square of wire. [As you may guess, I didn't build them myself.]
Since the panels are less than 5' tall, I had them raised about 15" above the ground. That makes the top close to 6' off the ground, which is about as high as I can reach. When the tomatoes get to the top wire, I train them to go sideways along the top of the panel (at least until things get too crowded).
In the spring, I cope with that dreadful in-between stage -- where the vines aren't tall enough to reach the bottom of the panel, yet need some help -- by a judicious use of jute twine.
I weave the vines through the holes, from one side of the panel to the other. But I also use the circular plastic clips to attach the vines to the panel, both to train the vine where I want it to go, and also to guarantee the vine won't collapse under the weight of the fruit. I don't know how much that's necessary, but a neighbor had her tomatoes collapse this summer (tied to stakes with strips of old cotton knit clothes).
The first time I used the trellis, I planted 2' apart, on alternating sides of the trellis. I'm sure that wasn't why everything died of Late Blight -- but they were too close. This summer, I planted the tomatoes 4' apart; not room for as many plants, but it works very well considering I pretty much don't prune.
In any case, this is way easier to deal with than any alternative I've tried. I have a few of the old (probably 25-30 years old), heavy, wide wire cages, about 3' tall. I planted a Rutgers in one. The tomatoes are so large and grow so tightly together that in order to harvest the fruit, I've almost had to dissect them to get them past the stems and the wires. No problems like that with the tomatoes on the trellis!
Besides tomatoes, I grow cucumbers and small gourds on the trellis.
Thanks for all the great info! I have raised beds set 3' apart with rock path between them, so my plan was to build an arch that starts in one bed and ends in the other with the path down the middle. I was only going to build one for green beans because they continually outgrow my 5' trellis every year. But now I'm thinking multiple arches to support all my tomatoes.
I love your idea about weaving the vines in and out of the squares. I'm also wondering if, while the tomatoes are small enough, I can train them to hang on the inside of the arch so they're protected from the sun when we get those 100 degree days in September.
I appreciate knowing this stuff will be tough enough to support tomatoes. I haven't actually gone to a fencing store to see it for myself. Just pictures at this point.
Yes, all of the variables you mentioned are included which is why it's difficult to answer your question precisely for any specific variety.
I think it's best to say that seedlings should be transplanted from the seed pan or whatever you're using to start your seeds in to a larger container when they have about two sets of true leaves and forget about height.
For instance the variety Riesentraube, an indeterminate, forms a very short seedling to start with, so height is not important, but the number of sets of true leaves should still be the way you look at the situation.
I transplant mine when there are one to two sets of true leaves to 4 pak plastic cells about 2 X 2 inches/ cell, 8 paks to a standard nursery tray for 32 plants/ tray and grow them to outside transplant size in those same cells and transplant at about 6- 9 inches tall.
The FAQ here at GW on how to start from seeds,which I've referred you to before, discusses when to transplant from the seed pan, etc., in case you've forgotten about that FAQ. ( smile)
Suffice it to say that no two folks raise their plants the same way from seed, there are only guidelines, and you have to find out what works best for you in your particular situation by trying different ways of doing it that give you the results that you want.
Carolyn
Late season growth could be due to the moderate temperatures we are having now. Mid-summer heat is very stressful for plants and they appreciate the good weather. And maybe the rain has something to do with it also. But soon the days will get too short and the nights will get too cool for good growth or fruit set, so enjoy it while you can.
Bob B.
dickie, I have read that it can be due to either lack of light or heat. I don't know if that is true or not, but there are many who claim it to be true.
My seedlings get a minimum of 7 hours of full sun and most days 10 hours so I don't think lack of light is the problem.
Hi I had the same problem with Irene.Lots of rain and wind after the storm passed I picked 20 or so green tomatoes as the plants were broken I then put the green ones in my kitchen in the dark area on there tops and they are ripening! as far as taste better than store bought!
Hello,
Before Irene came I picked the largest tomato's in my garden. If they had a good amount of color I just turned them up side down on a tray and put them in my kitchen in the darkest place. For the rest w/out color I got a lg. paper bag and put them in there,not touching,and put them in a dark place, these have to be checked daily. In fact all need to be checked and most do ripen for me.
I also do this at the end of the season if there are a lot of tomato's still on the vines before clean up. You have to check the bags because if one rots you have to throw it away,right away.
I have had good luck doing this for years,but you have to keep on top of it. As far as taste not really any different, so much better than store bought.
Don't think this yr. I'm going to have that many left as I had the worst tomato yr. ever!
Karen
yes, its a waste of energy that could be going to root development.
OK, then I will keep snipping the blossoms off until they are in their permanent home in 2 weeks.