16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes

How much heat does the ballast unit put out on that 400 watt unit?

Well Gregory123,

I took your advice and bit the bullet on the 400 watt light... It's way more than I was planning on or could afford.... but at least it's something I can use years into the future... and 'handles' this part of my veggie garden...

I just need to save up some moola for a couple 4' T5 grow light for each of the other two windows now...

Hopefully, this does the trick...

I am trying to decide if I am motivated to grow greens during the winter in our heated box - inside the GH. It works great - not too expensive - but does require removing the lid on hot sunny days (in the GH) and of course - watering. We can grow in this box all through the winter months. It is 30" wide X 96" long. We bury the cables about 4" under the soil and plug them into a thermostat that I set at about 50 degrees F.
The box contains the heat well during the night and the GH is warm enough (sometimes too warm) during the day that if I take off the lid - the plants do well !

AACK!!! Hudson, you're killing me!!! Now I have a bad case of the "I wants"!!!!
Edie

Thanks PupillaCharites

The larger/stronger tomato plants have bounced back. A few smaller plants and weaker cucumber plants on the outer edges of my setup have died.
I did a reservoir change on my Ebb & Flo reservoir tank, last night, and skipped the Flora Kleene process. This setup has around 10 tomato plants topping off around 7 ft tall. I have changed this tank before with no adverse affects.
Looks like I have a 30 dollars a gallon of FloraKleene for sale... LOL.

Thanks again for the replies,
Ban

Hi Ban, I hear you on the Flora Kleene stuff ... just like all of those whiz bang products, they are worth hanging on to and some time you may get some tough salt buildup in the hydroton or whatever you have in the EnF and it may come in handy...you never know (the astronomical cost $30 is another subject)

I used to take care of that problem, which was not frequent but is more common in desert climates, by just running water through the media pHed as low as ok for the plants. When you finish the growing cycle, you can just put all the media into a large tub, and just soak it good, dump the water and soak it at a pH of 4 or so, dump, and soak rinse. That's how I'd recycle it swirling it around with my hands to get the old organic matter out, and that saves a lot of money on buying the media. When I let the roots completely dry out in the rig, they came out more whole and easily compared to wet roots.

For DWC it was never an issue. I still have some strawberries running that I planted in two tubs nearly 14 months ago. They are outside and whenever it rains the hydroton gets rinsed, but if they were inside, I would just run a gallon of $0.88 Walmart distilled water through the pot,s like I said in the first post. You could use RO or Rain too. That's better than tap or well because it sucks the residues into solution more, and having it pH'ed around 4.8 for tomatoes is fine. It takes extremely little pH down to pH distilled water if it isn't already at low pH. The acid side pH dissolves the carbonates and phosphates which build up and leave a white residue.

Your tomatoes sound great! Must be a pretty tough set-up to deal with plants that big. Here's a picture of strawberry roots damaged by chlorine in tap water after a res change:

(chlorinated water damage from res change of strawberries)

Tomato is less sensitive to chlorine than strawberry but if there is very little organic matter in the solution, they can get punched too if chlorine is not dissipated. Like your situation, I lost some of the plants at the edges, where the bubbler was not very efficient.

Good luck. I'm so caught up in tomatoes I've neglected the strawberries, no res change since June 3!

PC

This post was edited by PupillaCharites on Thu, Nov 13, 14 at 11:34

Hi Silvia, maybe they're kind words but you make it easy, over a Sungold Caprese salad LOL. The thread got so big, I'm reading it in pieces so forgive me if I say something you've covered. To tell the truth, I just keep coming back to look at the pictures ;-)

When/how are you going to pull your plants this year? Do you take them to the end, or as you say force a break to lessen carrying any disease (and I say enjoying Christmas).

I think we're going to have an early frost this year since that's the way it's been going. It'll definitely get us up here, but hopefully you'll be insulated around 3 hours to the south. Three hours, hmmm. If things work out I might just crash your April party!

I'm actually going to try the mix with spinosad and neem, because you suggested it... The spinosad alone is worthless but I've never used neem, and need to look more into it, since it gets such good reviews. I have a highly refined horticultural oil called Sunspray that I've used for mites successfully which may be an ok swap, so I'll read up on the difference to be sure.

I started keeping single vines, and you're right about that. At this point, I am letting the plants put out everything they can. It's not because I am happy with that, only because every single flower counts here and pruning and waiting as the Sun falls further won't get a few last clusters in. So it used to single but now they are an intertwined mess with lots of yellow ;-) October was a great month in general as it always is, but the party will be over as quickly as it started. September was a total rainout which delayed everything and why transplant date was Oct 3.

Hi labs ! Yes a sort of summer fabric would be just what the doctor ordered. Sounds like a project for next year spring/summer. But for extending the season, the plants now couldn't take the hit in loss of light. Sometimes I think I should just get a grow room inside the house with silver wallpaper and a huge electric bill :-(

Cheers!
PC

EDIT... about Citrus, nope that's not our source here but I bet it is a big deal around Indian River... we're too far north except for an ocassional pet tree in the yard for fun. There are two trees within 500 feet and later I'm going to sneak a look at them both just for fun. Better not to ask, since it might not go over well, if I say can I inspect your lemon and orange tree for leafminers I have on my tomatoes ;-))))

This post was edited by PupillaCharites on Wed, Nov 12, 14 at 11:58

Hi PC, looking forward to you crashing the party in April.:)

I don't have an exact time to pull the plants out but I still have them in January, I use the tomatoes for the parties at my house around Christmas, the big tomatoes are just ripening now...

January tomatoes from past seasons, with snap peas

With phyllo dough and feta cheese

Silvia

if you are looking for plum sized paste tomatoes, Tatiana website has this.
Also lots of hearts are usually quite meaty and have few seeds

Here is a link that might be useful: paste

thanks Carolyn,
i'm going to go with dix doight de naples and try out a few plants of the libby's pride and mama leone. the martinos roma did produce red fruit plants were very healthy just that at frost the plant was loaded with un ripened tomatoes and my production was down that year. my grandparents were from Benevento there variety was very vine like sparser foliage and shaped very incosistantly most like small boxy hearts. I tried a odd variety od costuluto one year called pisanello very tall viny plant. the sauce was out of this world, but they were hard to maintain and not very productive. the san marzano when I planted it. was deceased proned and more fruits with blossom end rot and other ailments. not worth it. I see another type of heirloom called piramide. might be worth a trial run. the chico 3's I planted last year were beautiful almost all without ber.

Time For A Little Update:

On Sept 17, I wrote "
IDEA, is idea for an experiment here. Is that understood ?
I don't like to get into lengthy discussions on details of genetics.
But you did not say anything about cloning ?
If I plant 3 clones, what will happen ?

Subsequently I isolated two bud, not nearly to open yet. I covered them with tight nylon tulle, that no even smallest insect

Isolated flowers

So then I gave them time to flower and finish all sexual activity. Finally I saw husks formed in the tulle.

Removed the tulle and marked them ( by tying a piece of the same tulle:

Here are some pictures.

I Think, probably this late in the season that temps are going down to 50s and 60s those husks won't be filled but nevertheless the flowers have been self pollinated and fruits formed.

So this experiment has proved 100% to me that tomatillo is in fact both self pollinating and self sufficient, just like tomatoes. I am sure that inter pollination within a SINGLE plant by wind or insect can improve the odds.

CASE CLOSED !

HARVEST

With the frost in forecast, yesterday I harvested some husks near full. But since my plant started setting much late in the season and due to cool temperatures afterwards, the husk did not get real full. Amazing thing is that I found some flowers on the plant. The plant still looks healthy while all my my tomatoes are dead and gone.

Here is a picture of my harvest. Ten times more are left on the plant which are half full or even smaller

I'm not in PA, but chilly Canada.

I started my tomatoes from seed at the end of March and had a very good growing year.

I would definitely suggest that you try some early varieties like Bloody Butcher, Stupice or Matina.

I LOVE Cherokee Purple but I read on the forums that Indian Stripe is just as good, but more productive, so I tried growing it this year and it is my new favourite!

Other good ones were Anna Russian, a pink heart, Eva Purple Ball, a pink, and Black Early.

Linda

bmoser,
not too far from Valencia at all. Probably 45 min to an hour, maybe. It might be a tad closer than the place I got my Ghost peppers from (Started from Seed Greenhouse in back of New Brighton).

Never hurts to get a good variety of opinions and info.

labradors,
I grew Cherokee Purples this year. Production was so-so and they were a little small, but the taste was excellent. The greenhouse/farm I mentioned above grew them and they did well for them.

I've read a little about the Indian Stripes. I might give those a try next year.

Bloody Butcher and anna Russians are actually both on my short list for ones to add next year. Was considering the Matina as well. The others you mentioned, I've heard of but haven't looked into them. Will definitely do that.

I call them "mini Roma"

seysonn:
There is a variety named Cherry Roma which is also sold under
the names Baby Roma and Mini Roma.

I grew "Baby Roma" this season, they looked just like your picture
and were my best tasting tomato variety this year.

norval, thanks for the feedback. So you confirmed my taste judgement. I was going to use them in an Italian dish. I did not care for its raw taste. But when I tasted a couple, I was pleasantly surprised how good they tasted. Never expected from grocery store tomatoes.

Seeds are saved.

Just noting that Monsanto bought out Seminis but Seminis is not a single company for there are 5 different companies that comprise Seminis and the one that's of interest to most US growers is Petoseed.

That company was started by John Peto who left Burpee many years ago and took seeds with him for Teddy Jones, which was one parent of Big Boy F1, bred by Dr, Shifriss at burpee and also a parent of Better Boy F1 bred in CA where John Peto moved to.

Carolyn

Carolyn, Seminis is a global company headquartered in Oxnard or Saticoy if direction hasn't been taken over from St. Louis yet. Some of the acquisitions that comprise it have been merged and blurred to varying degrees. More than 5 acquisitions formed Seminis.

Seminis Home Garden was spun out of Peto, but Home Garden has been a tiny part of the company (If I recall, basically a one man show). Asgrow is another big player for farmers.

This post was edited by PupillaCharites on Sun, Nov 9, 14 at 0:33

FALL CLEAN UP: Done

Today was a sunny and pleasant day. So I did my fall clean up by removing all plants, the green tomatoes. stakes and the cages . I did not disturb the soil, b/c I want to spray the beds with fungicide, to kill all the bacteria and fungi on the surface.

The next step will be covering the beds with plastic and putting the beds to bed. But before that I would let the beds to air a bit. I plan to amend the soil in the spring just before plant out by adding, manure, pine bark fine and granular fertilizer, about a month before plant out.

Happy Retirement !

This year compost was made with addition of many goodies- micro elements that are missing from the soil according to soil test, EM, minerals etc.
Piles are now cooling and full of worms. Covered them for the winter period.
Adding wood chips to the perennial garden and looking over catalogs which perennials to grow for next year swap. Def want primulas but rest still undecided.
Got seeds packaged for the Tormato swap.
Got most of my varieties wants 2015, including most requested in 2014 and famous Margaret Curtain. Now the biggest dilemma is cutting my must grow list to acceptable number.

seysonn,
That was has more or less been my thought process for the last several years that I've been doing raised beds with the general mix I mentioned. Prior to that, I did have a more traditional garden where I planted in ground.

This was the first year I abandoned the granular fertilizer for the MG. Which, I just followed the directions on the box with respect to strength but not frequency due to the rain.

It seemed like such a waste to do it in the rain when I figured it would just run out the bottom of the beds. I guess I had that part wrong and perhaps it contributed to my poor production on at least some of the plants.

Humus gives advantage of holding all your nutrients in right place. It is pretty hard work to keep humus content above 4% in the soil.
There is difference between feeding the soil and feeding the plants. Ferts like MG are meant to feed the plants, humus feeds soil and all creatures in it which in turn feed the plants...

Here is a link that might be useful: humus

Although it is indeterminate and not a paste, I agree with the Rutgers recommendation. The taste is just right for ketchup, a little tart, and doesn't get too big.
John A

Rutgers VFA is the determinate form of Rutgers. And if you want small plants as you indicated then P.Romanesco isn't for you.

Dave

Hi,

I have these growing in several pots all have twisted flowers.

One of them (the plant is almost 5 feet tall) and the container is a 3gallon self watering pot (an inverted bottle in a pot which takes in water from the bottom as and when required).

Its in a bad shape as there are some suckers not supported. I think I must prune this plant to put it in a better shape but not too sure how to go about.

See ... you have tomatoes setting even though the flowers are "twisted". Patience with the fruiting process ;-)

In my opinion the time to prune a plant you are having difficulty with is when the suckers are small, or not at all. The plant has expended a lot of energy to create them and if they are near the flowering stage this flowering/fruit preparation is all lost. If you pinch them off when they are shorter than your thumb, you minimize the energy lost.

If you have a very healthy plant, there can be plenty of excess energy to spare and it is not so crucial as it is continually producing new foliage.

Your tall plant does not look healthy to me. You suggest heat damage. It might be ... I don't think that can be determined from the picture without knowing the history of how you cultivated that potted plant.

On the bright side of things, I don't think you should be concerned about the petals not completely opening and thrusting the anther cone and stigma forward like a shooting star. This may have to do with the heat and variety. But you have set tomatoes, so I think heat is not the principle problem. I believe you may have a fetilizer imbalance. The self watering container in the desert is very tricky business due to the high evaporation rates leaving fertilizer residue behind to concentrate like in a salt flat on land. It doesn't look to me like this is happening for all the nutrients in yours but I think some may be deficient (the "deficiency" can be caused by excesses of others which prevent the uptake of those in lower concentrations). Also, even though you are in a warm climate, and have not said anything about the plant, the plant looks like mine when they are grown in too much shade. The plant should get direct sun exposure in the morning and plenty of water. The fertilization program is most convenient with controlled release fertilizers like Osmocote. You can get more information on growing in containers in the Container forum (see link), but generally 3 gallons will not give you room for error in fertilization and watering in a 5 foot tall plant and I think this is you major concern to address.

Best gardening
PC

Here is a link that might be useful: Container Gardening

Tomatoes are C3 photosynthesizers that saturate at about 500 mols. Full direct sun gives about 2000 mols of light at sea level on a normal day during the 10:00 a.m to 3:00 pm time frame. The atmosphere filters out roughly 70% to 90% of the harmful UV under these conditions. Go up to Denver CO and the increase in altitude means less atmosphere to filter out the UV. Denver can get up to 3 times more harmful UV than a sea level location in Texas from a combination of higher altitude and less moisture in the air. The more air sunlight passes through, the less intense. Any time the sun is within 15 degrees of the horizon, only about 25% of the sun's rays hit the earth, the rest is absorbed in the atmosphere. This is why you can look at the sun when it is near the horizon but not when it is high in the sky.

Tomatoes originated in a tropical highland area of the Andes mountains within 10 degrees of the equator. They developed a waxy coating on the leaves plus specialized cells on leaf surfaces to protect from the intense sunlight in their native environment. The plants can still be stressed from a combination of high temperatures with high light intensity. If insufficient water is available, the plants will suffer though the effect is usually to make the leaves more susceptible to fungal diseases. So by a combination of high solar intensity, high temperatures, low water availability, and attack by diseases, tomato plants can have their lives shortened and production reduced.

Some tomato growers use shade cloth to reduce plant stress. Shade cloth can both extend productive life and increase total production if correctly used. 40% shade cloth is available from greenhouse suppliers and is appropriate for this use.

Fusion,

The question of light intensity alone is not harmful as long as the plant has time to adapt, unless you have some info showing it is which would be very interesting. (In reasonable environments ... not the Gobi Desert). At low light levels, leaves develop with a different composition. Adapting means giving it time to change its structure to accomodate a high flux.

Up to 70% shade cloth can be necessary in Florida to cut the temperatures (and even then not work). I did fine with standard 30% material and the work is in keeping the plant watered. It is a lot of work, too. A big plant can easily transpire a gallon a day here and if its watering needs are met it appears to produce very well with no signs of damage. I have to say appears because my night temperatures are too high and cause problems with fruit set, so it is more of an assertion than a statement.

Photosynthesis is a photochemical process. When the flux is above the capacity of the leaf to absorb, light is simply not utilized and not damaged, which I think the OP is asking.

Whether UV can cut life expectancy or invite disease is another question. Whether the OP in the mid-Atlantic is wondering about supplementary light which does not have high UV content is another question. You really need to look at total yield IMO, at least that is what I am interested in. For example, if I got 25 pounds out of a plant in 3-4 months, I would consider that plant more successful than one that lived to a ripe old transplant age of 6 months and gave only 15 pounds.

Temperature is important, but doesn't sound like the OP was asking about it either, like many things that can contribute to an unhealthy environment if the plant doesn't get at least 6-8 cool hours to do processes it does best in cool temperatures, and probably in darkness.

PC