16,949 Garden Web Discussions | Growing Tomatoes
Time For A Little Update:
On Sept 17, I wrote "
IDEA, is idea for an experiment here. Is that understood ?
I don't like to get into lengthy discussions on details of genetics.
But you did not say anything about cloning ?
If I plant 3 clones, what will happen ?
Subsequently I isolated two bud, not nearly to open yet. I covered them with tight nylon tulle, that no even smallest insect
Isolated flowers
So then I gave them time to flower and finish all sexual activity. Finally I saw husks formed in the tulle.
Removed the tulle and marked them ( by tying a piece of the same tulle:
Here are some pictures.
I Think, probably this late in the season that temps are going down to 50s and 60s those husks won't be filled but nevertheless the flowers have been self pollinated and fruits formed.
So this experiment has proved 100% to me that tomatillo is in fact both self pollinating and self sufficient, just like tomatoes. I am sure that inter pollination within a SINGLE plant by wind or insect can improve the odds.
CASE CLOSED !
HARVEST
With the frost in forecast, yesterday I harvested some husks near full. But since my plant started setting much late in the season and due to cool temperatures afterwards, the husk did not get real full. Amazing thing is that I found some flowers on the plant. The plant still looks healthy while all my my tomatoes are dead and gone.
Here is a picture of my harvest. Ten times more are left on the plant which are half full or even smaller
I'm not in PA, but chilly Canada.
I started my tomatoes from seed at the end of March and had a very good growing year.
I would definitely suggest that you try some early varieties like Bloody Butcher, Stupice or Matina.
I LOVE Cherokee Purple but I read on the forums that Indian Stripe is just as good, but more productive, so I tried growing it this year and it is my new favourite!
Other good ones were Anna Russian, a pink heart, Eva Purple Ball, a pink, and Black Early.
Linda
bmoser,
not too far from Valencia at all. Probably 45 min to an hour, maybe. It might be a tad closer than the place I got my Ghost peppers from (Started from Seed Greenhouse in back of New Brighton).
Never hurts to get a good variety of opinions and info.
labradors,
I grew Cherokee Purples this year. Production was so-so and they were a little small, but the taste was excellent. The greenhouse/farm I mentioned above grew them and they did well for them.
I've read a little about the Indian Stripes. I might give those a try next year.
Bloody Butcher and anna Russians are actually both on my short list for ones to add next year. Was considering the Matina as well. The others you mentioned, I've heard of but haven't looked into them. Will definitely do that.
norval, thanks for the feedback. So you confirmed my taste judgement. I was going to use them in an Italian dish. I did not care for its raw taste. But when I tasted a couple, I was pleasantly surprised how good they tasted. Never expected from grocery store tomatoes.
Seeds are saved.
Just noting that Monsanto bought out Seminis but Seminis is not a single company for there are 5 different companies that comprise Seminis and the one that's of interest to most US growers is Petoseed.
That company was started by John Peto who left Burpee many years ago and took seeds with him for Teddy Jones, which was one parent of Big Boy F1, bred by Dr, Shifriss at burpee and also a parent of Better Boy F1 bred in CA where John Peto moved to.
Carolyn
Carolyn, Seminis is a global company headquartered in Oxnard or Saticoy if direction hasn't been taken over from St. Louis yet. Some of the acquisitions that comprise it have been merged and blurred to varying degrees. More than 5 acquisitions formed Seminis.
Seminis Home Garden was spun out of Peto, but Home Garden has been a tiny part of the company (If I recall, basically a one man show). Asgrow is another big player for farmers.
This post was edited by PupillaCharites on Sun, Nov 9, 14 at 0:33
FALL CLEAN UP: Done
Today was a sunny and pleasant day. So I did my fall clean up by removing all plants, the green tomatoes. stakes and the cages . I did not disturb the soil, b/c I want to spray the beds with fungicide, to kill all the bacteria and fungi on the surface.
The next step will be covering the beds with plastic and putting the beds to bed. But before that I would let the beds to air a bit. I plan to amend the soil in the spring just before plant out by adding, manure, pine bark fine and granular fertilizer, about a month before plant out.
Happy Retirement !
This year compost was made with addition of many goodies- micro elements that are missing from the soil according to soil test, EM, minerals etc.
Piles are now cooling and full of worms. Covered them for the winter period.
Adding wood chips to the perennial garden and looking over catalogs which perennials to grow for next year swap. Def want primulas but rest still undecided.
Got seeds packaged for the Tormato swap.
Got most of my varieties wants 2015, including most requested in 2014 and famous Margaret Curtain. Now the biggest dilemma is cutting my must grow list to acceptable number.
seysonn,
That was has more or less been my thought process for the last several years that I've been doing raised beds with the general mix I mentioned. Prior to that, I did have a more traditional garden where I planted in ground.
This was the first year I abandoned the granular fertilizer for the MG. Which, I just followed the directions on the box with respect to strength but not frequency due to the rain.
It seemed like such a waste to do it in the rain when I figured it would just run out the bottom of the beds. I guess I had that part wrong and perhaps it contributed to my poor production on at least some of the plants.
Humus gives advantage of holding all your nutrients in right place. It is pretty hard work to keep humus content above 4% in the soil.
There is difference between feeding the soil and feeding the plants. Ferts like MG are meant to feed the plants, humus feeds soil and all creatures in it which in turn feed the plants...
Here is a link that might be useful: humus
Hi,
I have these growing in several pots all have twisted flowers.
One of them (the plant is almost 5 feet tall) and the container is a 3gallon self watering pot (an inverted bottle in a pot which takes in water from the bottom as and when required).
Its in a bad shape as there are some suckers not supported. I think I must prune this plant to put it in a better shape but not too sure how to go about.
See ... you have tomatoes setting even though the flowers are "twisted". Patience with the fruiting process ;-)
In my opinion the time to prune a plant you are having difficulty with is when the suckers are small, or not at all. The plant has expended a lot of energy to create them and if they are near the flowering stage this flowering/fruit preparation is all lost. If you pinch them off when they are shorter than your thumb, you minimize the energy lost.
If you have a very healthy plant, there can be plenty of excess energy to spare and it is not so crucial as it is continually producing new foliage.
Your tall plant does not look healthy to me. You suggest heat damage. It might be ... I don't think that can be determined from the picture without knowing the history of how you cultivated that potted plant.
On the bright side of things, I don't think you should be concerned about the petals not completely opening and thrusting the anther cone and stigma forward like a shooting star. This may have to do with the heat and variety. But you have set tomatoes, so I think heat is not the principle problem. I believe you may have a fetilizer imbalance. The self watering container in the desert is very tricky business due to the high evaporation rates leaving fertilizer residue behind to concentrate like in a salt flat on land. It doesn't look to me like this is happening for all the nutrients in yours but I think some may be deficient (the "deficiency" can be caused by excesses of others which prevent the uptake of those in lower concentrations). Also, even though you are in a warm climate, and have not said anything about the plant, the plant looks like mine when they are grown in too much shade. The plant should get direct sun exposure in the morning and plenty of water. The fertilization program is most convenient with controlled release fertilizers like Osmocote. You can get more information on growing in containers in the Container forum (see link), but generally 3 gallons will not give you room for error in fertilization and watering in a 5 foot tall plant and I think this is you major concern to address.
Best gardening
PC
Here is a link that might be useful: Container Gardening
Tomatoes are C3 photosynthesizers that saturate at about 500 mols. Full direct sun gives about 2000 mols of light at sea level on a normal day during the 10:00 a.m to 3:00 pm time frame. The atmosphere filters out roughly 70% to 90% of the harmful UV under these conditions. Go up to Denver CO and the increase in altitude means less atmosphere to filter out the UV. Denver can get up to 3 times more harmful UV than a sea level location in Texas from a combination of higher altitude and less moisture in the air. The more air sunlight passes through, the less intense. Any time the sun is within 15 degrees of the horizon, only about 25% of the sun's rays hit the earth, the rest is absorbed in the atmosphere. This is why you can look at the sun when it is near the horizon but not when it is high in the sky.
Tomatoes originated in a tropical highland area of the Andes mountains within 10 degrees of the equator. They developed a waxy coating on the leaves plus specialized cells on leaf surfaces to protect from the intense sunlight in their native environment. The plants can still be stressed from a combination of high temperatures with high light intensity. If insufficient water is available, the plants will suffer though the effect is usually to make the leaves more susceptible to fungal diseases. So by a combination of high solar intensity, high temperatures, low water availability, and attack by diseases, tomato plants can have their lives shortened and production reduced.
Some tomato growers use shade cloth to reduce plant stress. Shade cloth can both extend productive life and increase total production if correctly used. 40% shade cloth is available from greenhouse suppliers and is appropriate for this use.
Fusion,
The question of light intensity alone is not harmful as long as the plant has time to adapt, unless you have some info showing it is which would be very interesting. (In reasonable environments ... not the Gobi Desert). At low light levels, leaves develop with a different composition. Adapting means giving it time to change its structure to accomodate a high flux.
Up to 70% shade cloth can be necessary in Florida to cut the temperatures (and even then not work). I did fine with standard 30% material and the work is in keeping the plant watered. It is a lot of work, too. A big plant can easily transpire a gallon a day here and if its watering needs are met it appears to produce very well with no signs of damage. I have to say appears because my night temperatures are too high and cause problems with fruit set, so it is more of an assertion than a statement.
Photosynthesis is a photochemical process. When the flux is above the capacity of the leaf to absorb, light is simply not utilized and not damaged, which I think the OP is asking.
Whether UV can cut life expectancy or invite disease is another question. Whether the OP in the mid-Atlantic is wondering about supplementary light which does not have high UV content is another question. You really need to look at total yield IMO, at least that is what I am interested in. For example, if I got 25 pounds out of a plant in 3-4 months, I would consider that plant more successful than one that lived to a ripe old transplant age of 6 months and gave only 15 pounds.
Temperature is important, but doesn't sound like the OP was asking about it either, like many things that can contribute to an unhealthy environment if the plant doesn't get at least 6-8 cool hours to do processes it does best in cool temperatures, and probably in darkness.
PC
Ahoy matey
seysonn has the general idea but he's confused his equinox with solstice, so here is the definitive information you can engineer perfectly a Melbourne VIC garden with:
Here's your best info on the planet:
Date, Direction, Maximum Solar Elevation, Mid-Day Shadow factor
Nov 1 due North, 67 degrees, 0.42
Dec 1 due North, 74 degrees, 0.29
Jan 1 due North, 75 degrees, 0.27
Feb 1 due North, 69 degrees, 0.38
Mar 1 due North, 60 degrees, 0.58
Apr 1 due North, 48 degrees, 0.90
May 1 due North, 37 degrees, 1.32
Jun 1 due North, 30 degrees, 1.73
An example/notes:
On Summer Solstice 10:03 am AEDT December 22, 2014, the Sun will reach its maximum elevation, 75.634 degrees @ 13:18 AEDT.
Your season winds down around May. Example: On May 1st, the mid-day Sun is due north at 37 degrees elevation. That means a plant at mid-day casts a shadow 1.32 times its height, blocking light due south of it along the ground ... e.g. a 2 meter plant will cast a 2.64 meter shadow along the ground, which is its shortest shadow of the day since this is the mid-day Sun I'm giving you ... the astronomical "high noon".
Clear skies
oops, wrong forum... happy gardening ;-)
PC
This post was edited by PupillaCharites on Mon, Nov 3, 14 at 16:54
Yeah PC is right. : I should've said "DECEMBER 21/22" instead of SEP.
But the point is/wast : Plant tallest farthest on the south of your garden. With summer solar altitude of 60 to 75 degrees (@ midday, in Sydney, ) there be be short shadows (Per PC's shadow factor numbers)
As I said the situation on the SH is mirror image (opposite) of NH.
So here we are: As we retire from gardening , here on the NH, you guys are getting into action.
Happy Gardening.
Lindalana wrote: > Daniel, had to laugh, nothing grows in total shadeâ¦
Yep, itâÂÂs âÂÂfunnyâ how newbies learn.
The plants I planted in the shade were seedlings leftovers after planting in the sunny areas.
I simply couldnâÂÂt THROW those leftovers, and I wanted to see what happens, because I read on the Internet a guy that grow OK in total shade.
In my experience, tomatoes DON'T work well in total shade. I don't know in partial shade.
oops, did not see that OP was old...
hopefully someone close to Chicago area will mark their calendars for next year anyway...
I know what you mean Daniel, I grew Monomach hat this year in dappled shade, under high canopies of oaks because I run out of any other space, taste was fantastic, I still got about 12-14 nice sized hearts from it.
I hope this helps...
Here is a little archive of photos that I saved from last years planting of the "4th of July tomato" of 2013 for the first tomato. I got the seeds from amazon, and they came in a ziplock bag just stating "4th of July" but no Burpee package.
I posted a link below when I first planted it. I think the date was May 16th according to my youtube video.
Here is a link that might be useful: When I planted the 4th along with Ramapo LInk
Somehow this thread got forgotten. So, I know what happened later in the season in my garden:
1) Siletz was the star performer, in earliness, size and continued production.
2) Bloody butcher was also early but it was a poor performer.
3) Matina came from behind and kept on producing consistently.
4) Stupice failed. Not only it was not early but also a mediocre performer with small inconsistent size fruits.
4) I also had Silvery Fir Tree. I liked its foliage. It did just one flush. Early ones were good size but a lot of cat faces. Nothing to write home about.
ZAP: Stupice definitely is banned from my garden. Bloody Butcher is 50/50.
I will plant just one SFT in pot. I just like its foliage.
Winners in early category: Siletz and Matina.
Altho I like yellow and golden tomatoes, I am not fond of Jubilee and its similar offspring Sunray. Sunray has more resistance to Fusarium, but both are quite vigorous and productive. Quite meaty and somewhat dry for me. They were quite popular for home gardeners in the 50's and 60's.
I suspect that they have been blended in todays market. There were other round yellows in thier time frame.
It is possible it was deer. They get a bite, do not like the taste. Move to eating something else. They tend to eat cucabit vines roots and all most times. If so soak some tampons in ammonia then tie them to some stakes in the corners, and set a few in the middle. Redip them when they dry out. That should keep any critters out. I was once in an area where bears, and moose would devastate a garden quickly.
I found out much later that slugs eat tomatoes too. I have caught some red handed. It is amazing how they climb all the way up there to find a tomato. I have a good plan to take care of them and the earwigs next year. I don't mind the birds. If you provide them water dish, they won't peck on the maters.
if you are looking for plum sized paste tomatoes, Tatiana website has this.
Also lots of hearts are usually quite meaty and have few seeds
Here is a link that might be useful: paste
thanks Carolyn,
i'm going to go with dix doight de naples and try out a few plants of the libby's pride and mama leone. the martinos roma did produce red fruit plants were very healthy just that at frost the plant was loaded with un ripened tomatoes and my production was down that year. my grandparents were from Benevento there variety was very vine like sparser foliage and shaped very incosistantly most like small boxy hearts. I tried a odd variety od costuluto one year called pisanello very tall viny plant. the sauce was out of this world, but they were hard to maintain and not very productive. the san marzano when I planted it. was deceased proned and more fruits with blossom end rot and other ailments. not worth it. I see another type of heirloom called piramide. might be worth a trial run. the chico 3's I planted last year were beautiful almost all without ber.